Civil War What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques

[Consona]

And one more thing. How would some accords prevent collateral damage? It would not stop Ultron from trying to destroy the city, it would not prevent Crossbones from wearing the bomb, etc...

 

[marshal99]

And one more thing. How would some accords prevent collateral damage? It would not stop Ultron from trying to destroy the city, it would not prevent Crossbones from wearing the bomb, etc...

The accord is not so much about collateral damage as it is about accountability. They want the avengers to be accountable , it is essentially a flimsy excuse to pass the buck.

 

[PelvicSorcery]

After seeing it again, the kiss between Steve and Sharon sticks out as the main jarring and needless moment in the film. I can just feel it being dictated from higher ups to squash shippers of Steve and Bucky, who quite frankly have a more believable and organic romantic relationship Sorry but it's true. And they even threw in Steve's friends nodding in approval of his manliness just to drive the point home for a laugh.

I'm not against the relationship, and I know that particular moment has been debated enough, but it really stands out as inauthentic. Steve and Bucky are the real love story in the film no matter what you think that entails, and it would have been a better film if they just let that stand on its own without diluting it.

I also felt like we got more of Tony's perspective about the politics of the conflict than Steve's. Steve still felt like the central character, but I would have liked to dig deeper into his head and feelings. A lot of his motivations seemed to just stem from wanting to protect Bucky, when based on the previous films he had a full arsenal of counterpoints he could have made about his reluctance for signing his life away to the government.

I hate to beat another dead horse, but I've grown weary of Hawkeye in these films. Jeremy Renner just doesn't have the charisma of the other actors and you can feel them really straining to sell the character.


Rhodey is the other character that's played out and could have died for all I care, but I don't get the complaints that they chickened out of killing him. The recent and devastating death of Tony's closest friend would have taken away from the gravity of him finding out how his parents died, just from a cinematic/story perspective.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I honestly feel that the Bucky/Cap stuff is equally thin. What should have been a deep and abiding friendship based on growing up and going to war together in TFA is painfully thin instead. It's not nonexistent but I do not find it near deep enough.

 

[PelvicSorcery]

I honestly feel that the Bucky/Cap stuff is equally thin. What should have been a deep and abiding friendship based on growing up and going to war together in TFA is painfully thin instead. It's not nonexistent but I do not find it near deep enough.

I agree, it definitely could have been better developed across the entire Cap trilogy. I don't think they had a complete direction for their story mapped out yet while making TFA, and frankly they couldn't have considering how ambitious and uncertain the MCU was at that point. Regardless, it still hurts the film series because their relationship isn't really sold as much as it should have been considering it eventually becomes one of the most critical relationships in the entire universe. Having the same directors across all three films probably could have helped.

For TWS they decided to fully commit to the Steve/Bucky storyline, so they they made up for what was lacking a little bit with flashbacks, themes of loneliness and isolation, and numerous mournful gazes of longing that allow people to see whatever they want to see. The fact that Bucky is a brainwashed assassin for most of the film makes it hard to dive into their friendship though. There's still A LOT of emotion packed into that final fight scene, which is why I like it more than most fight scenes in the franchise.

I think Civil War did a better job of selling how much they care for each other, largely due to strong performances from Chris and Sebastian. They're the only ones who understand what the other has been through, where the other comes from, and how they're sticking together no matter how strong the outside forces tearing them apart are. The little moments in the script and their chemistry together sells that, even if it's not as melodramatic and fully realized as it could be. The fight scene with Tony had even more emotion packed into it, and Steve choosing Bucky over Tony until the bitter end is very significant, as well as equally devastating and touching.

They definitely could have made it have a much stronger impact if they had more foresight and direction from the beginning, but there's so much going on in the MCU now that it's hard to sell everything 100%. If this was JUST a Captain America franchise, all of his relationships would be a lot more developed, but for something of this scale you have to read between the lines sometimes. Thankfully they've accumulated enough talented directors and actors to make that possible.

I still find it to be one of the most compelling and fascinating relationships in the MCU, which for the most part has been kind of light in tone. They're just now starting to dive into stronger themes and relationships for the leading characters, and this one was kind of the beginning of that.

 

[Consona]

MEGA SPOILER

Is it just me, or is the fact Bucky was brainwashed a huge flaw in the logic of the most important scene in the film

And this big one, please. t: I really don't know how to feel about that.

 

[Mjölnir]

And this big one, please. t: I really don't know how to feel about that.

I assume you mean when Iron Man attacks. The answer is that being highly emotional means that you're not being highly rational. His emotions are too strong to be dealt with logically and think about the differences between the Winter Soldier and Bucky Barnes. He's traumatized by the death of his parents and now it's not only brought up again, it comes up in a way that made it worse than he even thought it was, and he has the target for his desire for revenge within his reach.

Sometimes having a character not act very logically is the logical choice for the movie.

An interesting thought is about if Zemo's plan would have had as good of an effect if he hadn't been followed by Iron Man and had to present his evidence in a different way at a different time? The overall plan works without IM being there at the time (and he did have to readjust his plan during the movie), but it probably played out better for Zemo that he was.

 

[Schlosser85]

Tony is in a blind rage, not thinking rationally. In that moment, he doesnt give a **** that Bucky was brainwashed, even though earlier in the movie he was making arrangements to get him placed in a psychiatric hospital instead of prison.

 

[SuperAl]

Vision came off kinda creepy in the movie. Not sure if they were trying to depict a connection between him and Wanda but it came off like he was some sort of stalker. Phasing into her bedroom and then him not letting her leave the building.

 

[Schlosser85]

Well Vision is in the process of trying to understand the whole concept of emotions.

 

[SuperAl]

I thought it was also kinda strange how the government is suddenly concerned with collateral damage yet they tried to nuke New York in The Avengers.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I thought it was also kinda strange how the government is suddenly concerned with collateral damage yet they tried to nuke New York in The Avengers.

That was the World Security Council, which was more like a shadow-government type. This was the UN.

 

[MarvelMayhem]

I thought it was also kinda strange how the government is suddenly concerned with collateral damage yet they tried to nuke New York in The Avengers.

I don't really think the heart of it is collateral damage. Governments just want a way to control 'super' powered humans or persons with abilities. And I totally can buy an organization coming together to try and regulate the Avengers if they existed.
And yet I don't think it was a really awful or ill intended idea. I kind of sided with Tony on it. Like Steve said...people have agendas. And Steve had the BIGGEST agenda of all. Save Bucky. Glad he did but its definitely a situation that really lacks a true winner in it, there is need for regulation but who gets to regulate it?

 

[Kobra]

This right here shows you have no argument and are now just being plain insulting.

I have plenty of arguments and i've presented them all here several times. Calling a movie stupid without wasting too much time explaining WHY is as valid as calling a movie great without spending too much time explaining WHY. I do think the movie is stupid. Entertaining, but also stupid and badly crafted on several levels. As someone who watches movies on a daily basis, most of them not even American or high budget, i can't consider CW a good example of storytelling. Not that it needs to be. A lot of people enjoy these movies just for the action. But i do need a really good story in order to be able to consider a movie great. This is just not a great movie. If we weren't so intoxicated with hollywood propaganda more people would be able to see that.

 

[Kobra]

I completely disagree. I think you're confusing what you think of as a good plot with simply a different kind of plot. Is Casino Royale a bad film because it has high action and not many scenes where the characters sit down and engage in verbal sparring ala Tinker Taylor Soldier Spy? No, it's just different.

And to be honest man, I respect that you didn't like the film, but all you've done is come in and repeat variations of "I don't think it's a good plot" without giving any reasons for why you think it was so. On the other hand, I think CW had a very well put together plot, some of the best arcs for many of it's characters involved, and easily handled the ensemble superhero make up the best of any Superhero film yet. They equally divided the time and each character felt like they should be there, we saw how their relationships were formed even when some characters only got a small amount of time, and overall (and most importantly) the relationships and conflict felt REAL. That's what made it a good film.

I've given my reasons. You have just not been paying enough attention. And i never said i didn't like the movie. I just don't think it's great.

Casino Royale was an engaging movie full of emotion. I was invested in the story and the characters all the way through. That's more than i can say about CW. Casino Royale made me care about the plot without even being a big Bond fan. Casino Royale made me cry too. It just hits all the right notes and is very well balanced. CW is a big circus when compared to Casino Royale.

 

[Dark Raven]

I think they could've had more than one fight with everyone. They wouldn't need to be as equally big, but could escalate. Maybe we could even see allegiances changed. Spider-Man never really seemed torn between both sides at all. He was completely on Iron Man's side.

It almost feels as if Civil War was a bit incomplete and could've done with an extra hour. It seems like Cap should've had a conversation with Spidey later on and given him his side of the picture. Spidey only really heard one side of the argument.

 

[SuperAl]

I think they could've had more than one fight with everyone. They wouldn't need to be as equally big, but could escalate. Maybe we could even see allegiances changed. Spider-Man never really seemed torn between both sides at all. He was completely on Iron Man's side.

It almost feels as if Civil War was a bit incomplete and could've done with an extra hour. It seems like Cap should've had a conversation with Spidey later on and given him his side of the picture. Spidey only really heard one side of the argument.

Spidey basically got bribed with a new suit from what i could tell. He had no reason to fight captain america. If anything, i would assume he'd be on caps side considering he'd prolly have to reveal his identity if he signed the accords.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Spidey basically got bribed with a new suit from what i could tell. He had no reason to fight captain america. If anything, i would assume he'd be on caps side considering he'd prolly have to reveal his identity if he signed the accords.

I agree that it was sort of a bribe. And I'd agree if Cap had a sit down with him, his opinion would've changed.

But look at it this way, he's had the powers for 6 months. Someone walked into his life who he must respect hugely (as both Tony Stark and Iron Man) and the guy understood everything about him. Peter instantly became a part of something where he was completely outcasted before.

That's reason enough to throw your full weight behind Team Stark. At age 15, there wouldn't be a question in my mind if the government and 5 (relatively) famous superheroes walked up to me and asked me to join in on their cause.

Particularly when the news would've been chewing my ear off about Wanda and Bucky. Lang is also a known criminal. Hawkeye and Falcon are probably virtually unknown to most of the world. So you'd literally just be trusting Captain America about all of this, and trusting that he hadn't gone crazy or been possessed by some Mind Stone, or Maximoff or Skrull.

 

[Sundancer]

Maybe we could even see allegiances changed. Spider-Man never really seemed torn between both sides at all. He was completely on Iron Man's side.

Black Widow switched sides.


I think we could have taken the other Winter Soldiers out of the plot and just have Cap track down Zemo for his involvement in the UN bombing. He and Iron Man could have still ended up in a remote Hydra base for Zemo to watch them fight.

 

[Just_Human]

That was the World Security Council, which was more like a shadow-government type. This was the UN.

Exactly

That's what Rhodes said to Cap

 

[Just_Human]

And one more thing. How would some accords prevent collateral damage? It would not stop Ultron from trying to destroy the city, it would not prevent Crossbones from wearing the bomb, etc...

In the Comics, Stark said that's even if it's not really their fault, the public opinion thinks it is anyway

It's the perception

 

[souperman]

Tony is in a blind rage, not thinking rationally. In that moment, he doesnt give a **** that Bucky was brainwashed, even though earlier in the movie he was making arrangements to get him placed in a psychiatric hospital instead of prison.

Perfectly understandable because he killed his

Spoiler

MOM! Was her name Martha?

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Black Widow switched sides.


I think we could have taken the other Winter Soldiers out of the plot and just have Cap track down Zemo for his involvement in the UN bombing. He and Iron Man could have still ended up in a remote Hydra base for Zemo to watch them fight.

I say maybe. But it was a red herring. It was a twist to keep us from realizing Zemo was just there to tear them apart.

idk about you, but when i saw the bullet holes in the Winter Soldiers' foreheads, i was like "WUUUUTTTT"

 

[Schlosser85]

Me too. It was like wait, what?

 

[Webfoot Hero]

I have plenty of arguments and i've presented them all here several times. Calling a movie stupid without wasting too much time explaining WHY is as valid as calling a movie great without spending too much time explaining WHY. I do think the movie is stupid. Entertaining, but also stupid and badly crafted on several levels. As someone who watches movies on a daily basis, most of them not even American or high budget, i can't consider CW a good example of storytelling. Not that it needs to be. A lot of people enjoy these movies just for the action. But i do need a really good story in order to be able to consider a movie great. This is just not a great movie. If we weren't so intoxicated with hollywood propaganda more people would be able to see that.

Considering you think the other big versus movie is one of the top CBMs produced, I highly doubt any of what you say is true.