The Mandalorian Chapter Sixteen Spoiler Discussion

[TheVileOne]

I dunno, it doesn't look that different to me.

 

[The Caped Knight]

The character of Luke Skywalker is very important to a lot of Star Wars fans. This proves that he is still very much an inspiration figured. I’m glad that Jon Favreau and Dave filoni brought some dignity back to Star Wars with this epic.

 

[chintai80]

 

[herolee10]

They'll never admit it in public, but this is absolutely their way of making up for the sequels. I'm sure they weren't the biggest fans of them either.

No one has to erase the sequels from canon but there is 30 years of stories that can be told before they happen. And they've got plenty of opportunities now. I hope they make the best of it.

Unless my math is off, Luke technically has 20 good years left before he loses everything. Five years have already passed since ROTJ and Ben's betrayal happens 5 years before TFA (I think).

 

[TheVileOne]

I don't think it needs to be done. It's better to move on to new characters or characters who have never been done in live action before.

 

[Nathaniell]

i was against luke showing up but boi was I wrong. i loved the entire episode. what did it for me though was when Din removed his helmet for Grogu. it was a touching moment.

 

[DCnightwing23]

Quoting myself like a loon, but I checked up after...



This guy did better in a couple of days, Disney.

This just confirms that it was the mouth & sharpness that is off on the original. I think overall they did an outstanding job, but the mouth hardly moved and the hair + face aren't sharp enough. Otherwise, it's solid.

 

[TheVileOne]

Here you go Favreau and Filoni, I just did a fan fiction rewrite of the Darksaber plothole/retcon, free of charge:

Spoiler

Din Djarin: "Now...it belongs to her."

Moff Gideon: "She can't take it. It must be won in battle. In order for her to wield the Darksaber again, she would need to defeat you in combat."

Din Djarin: "I yield. It's ours."

Moff Gideon: "Oh no *maniacal laugh*. That's how she got it last time. It didn't work out well for her. First she lost the Darksaber, and then she lost Mandalore along with her credibility. The Darksaber was handed to her like a common trinket. She never won it in battle. Now, she stands before you a feckless, deposed, and incompetent ruler. She needed to beat me in order to get back the Darksaber in order to regain what's left of her pitiful standing with your broken, scattered ranks."

Din Djarin: "How do you know this?" *To Bo Katan* "Is this true?"

Moff Gideon: "Like I said Djarin, assume that I know everything!"

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Here you go Favreau and Filoni, I just did a fan fiction rewrite of the Darksaber plothole/retcon, free of charge:

Spoiler

Din Djarin: "Now...it belongs to her."

Moff Gideon: "She can't take it. It must be won in battle. In order for her to wield the Darksaber again, she would need to defeat you in combat."

Din Djarin: "I yield. It's ours."

Moff Gideon: "Oh no *maniacal laugh*. That's how she got it last time. It didn't work out well for her. First she lost the Darksaber, and then she lost Mandalore along with her credibility. The Darksaber was handed to her like a common trinket. She never won it in battle. Now, she stands before you a feckless, deposed, and incompetent ruler. She needed to beat me in order to get back the Darksaber in order to regain what's left of her pitiful standing with your broken, scattered ranks."

Din Djarin: "How do you know this?" *To Bo Katan* "Is this true?"

Moff Gideon: "Like I said Djarin, assume that I know everything!"

This is exactly what I am thinking as to why this has to go all Highlander.

Bo got it before but the "narrative" wasn't to her advantage when the various Mando factions started talking about how she didn't even win the Saber in mortal combat.


I still am DESPERATE to know Gideon's story.

Why the **** does he care about the Mandalorians so much?

 

[TheVileOne]

This is exactly what I am thinking as to why this has to go all Highlander.

Bo got it before but the "narrative" wasn't to her advantage when the various Mando factions started talking about how she didn't even win the sabre in mortal combat.


I still am DESPERATE to know Gideon's story.

Why the **** does he care about the Mandalorians so much?

Yup, think about it like this. The Mando ranks were behind her at the time. Then they led a stand against the Empire and lost. Not only did they lose, they lost BADLY. And on top of that, Bo Katan didn't even die a marty's death or a warrior's death. She LIVED and lost the Darksaber. Making her a pariah with the noble houses. And then it goes like as you said, "Yeah, she didn't even win it in battle. Figures."

They turn on her like a flavor of the month politician.

As for why Gideon knows so much about them, he was probably leading the forces that glassed or struck back at Mandalore during the Galactic Civil War, effectively breaking the spirit of the Mandalorians and sending them scattered in the winds for good.

 

[TheVileOne]

This just confirms that it was the mouth & sharpness that is off on the original. I think overall they did an outstanding job, but the mouth hardly moved and the hair + face aren't sharp enough. Otherwise, it's solid.

See the mouth is sort of what gets me in the Deep Fake version. It looks like a Disney animatronic.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Yup, think about it like this. The Mando ranks were behind her at the time. Then they led a stand against the Empire and lost. Not only did they lose, they lost BADLY. And on top of that, Bo Katan didn't even die a marty's death or a warrior's death. She LIVED and lost the Darksaber. Making her a pariah with the noble houses. And then and goes like as you said, "Yeah, she didn't even win it in battle. Figures."

They turn on her like a flavor of the month politician.

As for why Gideon knows so much about them, he was probably leading the forces that glassed or struck back at Mandalore during the Galactic Civil War, effectively breaking the spirit of the Mandalorians and sending them scattered in the winds for good.

This is all sounding very personal to him though.

Sure, as ISB etc. he's probably been part of any number of Imperial "pacification" ops.

But he called them "savages" when Mando confronted him. He has specific issues with the Mandalorian people, enough to go out of his way to make sure they remain scattered and in disarray by tracking down the Dark Saber.

My pet theory is that in some way shape or form we are going to learn Gideon has deep issues with the Mandos because in keeping with the themes of the show so far, he's a foundling that was raised by the Mandos but lost his way, or because in his capacity as an Imperial during the battle for Mandalore somehting happened, something that made him despise the Mandos with a bright hot passion.

 

[TheVileOne]

This is all sounding very personal to him though.

Sure, as ISB etc. he's probably been part of any number of Imperial "pacification" ops.

But he called them "savages" when Mando confronted him. He has specific issues with the Mandalorian people, enough to go out of his way to make sure they remain scattered and in disarray by tracking down the Dark sabre.

My pet theory is that in some way shape or form we are going to learn Gideon has deep issues with the Mandos because in keeping with the themes of the show so far, he's a foundling that was raised by the Mandos but lost his way, or because in his capacity as an Imperial during the battle for Mandalore somehting happened, something that made him despise the Mandos with a bright hot passion.

Makes sense.

I can imagine there were a lot of guerrilla warfare tactics by the Mandalorians against Gideon that probably haunt his dreams.

 

[flickchick85]

I'm guessing Gideon had a particularly unpleasant encounter with the Death Watch at some point.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Makes sense.

I can imagine there were a lot of guerrilla warfare tactics by the Mandalorians against Gideon that probably haunt his dreams.

Hmm...

Kinda wonder about his aide de camp that we kept getting some focus on...

The lover/SO of say... A son Gideon lost?

Just spitballing.

 

[TheVileOne]

Hmm...

Kinda wonder about his aide de camp that we kept getting some focus on...

The lover/SO of say... A son Gideon lost?

Just spitballing.

Comms Officer

I'm guessing she's just an Imperial loyalist who didn't see any worth in defecting, but didn't they kill her in the finale? Gideon had no remorse to spare for her.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Comms Officer

I'm guessing she's just an Imperial loyalist who didn't see any worth in defecting, but didn't they kill her in the finale? Gideon had no remorse to spare for her.

Did we see her die?

Bo and Co. took the bridge... Which Gideon was clever enough to side step. Maybe he did the same for his favorite junior officier?

Here's what I'm saying... I'm not gonna be surprised if she's alive and is the one to break Gideon out of Republic custody.

 

[Schlosser85]

I was wondering what happened to her too. We got some focus on her and then she just kinda disappeared. I wasn’t sure if she died or not.

 

[TheVileOne]

The Wookieepedia says she's dead. I couldn't find her during the bridge attack. `

 

[Nathaniell]

That sucks in a way....I liked her. She was cool.

 

[henzINNIT]

This just confirms that it was the mouth & sharpness that is off on the original. I think overall they did an outstanding job, but the mouth hardly moved and the hair + face aren't sharp enough. Otherwise, it's solid.

It's worth mentioning that the deepfake is actually worse for being applied to Disney's effects. If it was applied directly to a real person it would look sharper and move more naturally. The same guy put Harrison Ford in Solo and the real human performance underneath helped even with the two actors looking so different.

 

[TheVileOne]

I'm guessing Gideon had a particularly unpleasant encounter with the Death Watch at some point.

Or the Nite Owls, or the noble houses of Mandalore.

 

[BatLobster]

They'll never admit it in public, but this is absolutely their way of making up for the sequels. I'm sure they weren't the biggest fans of them either.

No one has to erase the sequels from canon but there is 30 years of stories that can be told before they happen. And they've got plenty of opportunities now. I hope they make the best of it.

I mean, sure, it's scratching an itch and giving something the entire fanbase always wanted to see. Both people who enjoyed the ST and those that didn't. Because the ST jumped forward 30 years in time. The old EU always was covering more of the immediate aftermath of the OT and that's why you got to see Luke in his prime. After seeing how shaky the de-aging effect still is, I'm grateful it is being used sparingly and we didn't get 3 movies of that for the original trio.

I recommend everyone who hates TLJ and/or the ST give this thread a read with a read with an open mind, because there is so much validity to this:


Also, regardless of what Filoni thinks of the ST (I can't claim to be inside the man's head), he has a relationship with Rian Johnson. Rian consulted with him when writing TLJ, then he was invited to set and says Rian took him under his wing, showed him how to block scenes, and helped give him the confidence that he could make the jump to live action.

Regardless of whether he agrees with all the choices made in the films, he's bound to have a more mature and nuanced opinion about them than the average fanboy as someone who's deep in the weeds with all this stuff. He kind of specializes in embracing all of the canon and adding new layers to it.

 

[DarkKnight88]

Regardless of whether he agrees with all the choices made in the films, he's bound to have a more mature and nuanced opinion about them than the average fanboy as someone who's deep in the weeds with all this stuff. He kind of specializes in embracing all of the canon and adding new layers to it.

Agreed. He's probably the only one who's opinion on Star Wars outside of George Lucas that actually matters.

Hell, he's the only one who can make me appreciate The Phantom Menace a hell of a lot more.

 

[RetrogradeOrbit]

Cara wanted Gideon alive to be taken to New Republic Intelligence.

Accidents happen, all the time...