The All Things Flash Thread. - Part 2

[Milk Tray Guy]

I'd drop The Brave & The Bold in a ****ing heartbeat for a Batman Beyond movie. Preferably with Keaton.

Definitely. Wouldn't even have to think about it.

I don't think it has anything to do with Ezra, either. I really don't think they're famous enough for just your average GA member to be all that aware of their rampage in the first place.

Completely agree with this as well.

 

[dhandler01]

Yeah, The Flash was massively expensive to make and if a movie that seems poised to be quite well reviewed with a big sexy nostalgic marketing hook can't make a big box office showing it doesn't say amazing things about GA interest in DC as a brand apart from straight up Batman movies going forward.

I don't think it has anything to do with Ezra, either. I really don't think they're famous enough for just your average GA member to be all that aware of their rampage in the first place.

I think there is more at play than just whether the GA likes DC or not. I think because of the Pandemic (and the strike will make this worse) people just aren't as poised to get hyped for films like they used to. Obviously the biggest of the big will but people need to be goosed up to go to the theater...even my friends with kids dont go to all the kids films and that used to be a guarantee. Add in the fact that every week now is a blockbuster and I think people are just getting tired and they are running out of money. (I speak only of the US) I mean Fast X just came out and even it opened low and that has a pretty solid audience.

We are so used to talking about "CBM fatigue" but honestly I think we have hit "Blockbuster Fatigue". And the big amplifier of that is that the studios are so hungry for content they put films on streaming ASAP meaning people don't have to really feel they are missing out anymore.

As for whether WBD wants this to be a hit, obviously they do. But let's be honest, they know unless Asia goes nuts (which it could they like stuff like this film from what I gather) it is not going to make much profit and they know it. They just want to get whatever they can back. Even f the film sucked (and again it does NOT) the fiscally correct choice was to pick this over Batgirl because Batgirl was never going to bring in any revenue. Even if this bombed it would get some ticket money. WBD is basically in stock liquidation mode...thye are selling everything at a huge discount just to get some money in the accounts!

I think the hope of Gunn and Saffran is the film is reviewed well and liked by the audience. I doubt they are worried about financial success at all they just happen to like the film and hope others do to. It is a much better ending to the DCEU than it deserves.

In the end though I am just not going to get all worked up about it. We all spend so much time worrying about outside factors I swear we psych ourselves out from enjoying the runup to the film and sometimes the film itself.

 

[dhandler01]

Honestly, I think people put too much stock in "the brand." People don't see DC as a unified brand the way they do Marvel, hence them having a big hit Wonder Woman movie and a billion dollar hit in Aquaman, followed by disappointments, followed by another billion dollar hit with Joker, and a successful Batflick followed by disappointments. People will go to DC movies if they look good, plain and simple. Aquaman looked really fun. Joker had good trailers, The Batman looked damn good. Black Adam and Shazam 2 did not.

And while I know a bunch of DC fans thought The Flash looked good, I think a bunch of the GA (along with plenty of people on this board including myself) felt differently. When 80% of your trailer is CGI that looks bad as this does, that's gonna turn off A LOT of people. It may well be a great movie, but the trailers didn't do it justice, if that's the case. I think it will do well. It has enough hooks for that. Well enough to make a profit with that budget? Remains to be seen. But I don't think it was ever poised to be any kind of billion dollar megahit.

Your first paragraph is spot on. I think Marvel is really the only thing that people look at that way (because of its episodic nature) but for everything else (even Sony Spidey flicks and X-Men back in the day) they pick and choose.

As for the second part, I dont think the GA cares much about how much CGI is in a film or whether it looks good. Plenty of evidence of trash looking movies that somehow inexplicably do well, hell some directors make a career out of it. As someone who is not a big cgi person I tend to get annoyed by it unless I am really into the story. I am some of it (like most Star Wars films in the past 2 decades) just bore me with their special effects. In this case I personally think it works. I am not saying it is perfect, but it is better than a lot of things out there and the story is better as well. Whether the GA agrees I will not know. Even with as much as I enjoyed this film though I never thought it would make a ton here. (and barring a straight up miracle it wont come close to a billion so anyone who thinks that is nuts) If it is going to explode it is going to be overseas but it wont explode like that. But outside of being a Flash fan I dont have anything invested so I dont really care how much it makes. I am not David Zazlov of James Gunn I am Dave H****** from Minnesota who just wants to have fun at the movies. Let the execs worry about the details, I will worry that my money and time was spent wisely.

 

[dhandler01]

If the film is genuinely good, I think WOM may carry it.

WOM is going to be tough because of the stacked summer. In a normal climate I would agree with you.

And I don't think Ezra is having any impact either. I don't think that story had the GA traction a lot around here thought it would.

 

[TheGDBatman]

And I don't think Ezra is having any impact either. I don't think that story had the GA traction a lot around here thought it would.

Completely agree. Anecdotally, I haven't seen a significant level of awareness about Ezra's actions. If anything, people seem to be wary based on the fact that it's a DC film and they've been constantly underwhelmed by the movies.

As for the box office predictions, it's 3 weeks out. Lots of time for The Flash to push closer to it's financial ceiling (with realistic expectations in mind). I never get too bent up about predictions this far out because half the time I don't even have my own ticket yet and I follow these movies religiously (which happens to be the case for this movie as well).

I can also see a world where people elect to see The Flash over other movies in June. Spider-verse will undoubtedly garner a ton of interest, but it's also coming out 2 weeks prior. Transformers feels like a bit of a dark horse... Bumblebee had a modest (if underwhelming box office), and historically the movies have been most curb stomped by critics and fans. If WOM is low, people might elect to hold onto their hard earned cash for something that has more positive reviews and WOM (which The Flash seems poised to get). The only other threat in June is what, Indiana Jones? And that's at the end of the month (and is already getting torn to shreds by critics).

Maybe I'm just a little less doom and gloom, but we're far from issuing a red alert on this. AND, even if the stars fail to align and instead crash into each other, this just reinforces the need to reboot in a couple years (with Superman Legacy).

 

[Frodo]

Ezra is impactful to the extent that they can't do press for the film, nor promote it when they're the star.

So , you're dealing with a lesser known actor who can't even promote the film their the star of and the focus of.

Yeah, fanboys are hyped to see Keaton back and all the easter eggs, but at the end of the day, like it or not, Ezra is the star and it's their film.

Had they had no scandals to begin with, they could be cheerleading the film, at the very least.

It does make some difference in terms of at least showing people who this person is playing this character, though in this case , ironically , with the potential SAG strikes ,no late night show appearances, and a lack of GA enthusiasm at this point, even a Scandal-less might not have made a huge difference in terms of really hyping people who are non -fans for the film.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

We all spend so much time worrying about outside factors I swear we psych ourselves out from enjoying the runup to the film and sometimes the film itself.

That is sadly so true.

 

[dhandler01]

Oh them not doing press hurts.. but the awful stuff they did just isn't hurting the way the trades thought.

The strikes are gonna rain havoc on the summer films.

 

[GreenKToo]

Honestly, I think people put too much stock in "the brand." People don't see DC as a unified brand the way they do Marvel, hence them having a big hit Wonder Woman movie and a billion dollar hit in Aquaman, followed by disappointments, followed by another billion dollar hit with Joker, and a successful Batflick followed by disappointments. People will go to DC movies if they look good, plain and simple. Aquaman looked really fun. Joker had good trailers, The Batman looked damn good. Black Adam and Shazam 2 did not.

And while I know a bunch of DC fans thought The Flash looked good, I think a bunch of the GA (along with plenty of people on this board including myself) felt differently. When 80% of your trailer is CGI that looks bad as this does, that's gonna turn off A LOT of people. It may well be a great movie, but the trailers didn't do it justice, if that's the case. I think it will do well. It has enough hooks for that. Well enough to make a profit with that budget? Remains to be seen. But I don't think it was ever poised to be any kind of billion dollar megahit.

I'm guessing it will do 700ish million ( 680 to 720 ) with an outside shot at 750, and IF the stars align, maybe 800, but I seriously doubt 800 happens.
I think it will do pretty good because of Keaton, and the other cameos, and not because of Ezra, tho I heard it's a good performance.

 

[Lily Adler]

I do think that this film has had much more hype among fandom circles than the GA ,which may attribute to the lower than expected tracking.

Ironically, it sounds as if the film is genuinely good, but at this point , all of the praise and passion behind the film are with geek critics , pundits, and fans .

We'll see what happens after the more higher profile film critics see the film .

Maybe once alot of the hype is outside the fan bubble ,and if the positive word of mouth comes from outside the fan bubble , things will look a bit better Box office wise.

But we'll have to wait and see.

Remember when early reactions called Batman v Superman better than The Dark Knight or Snyder's The Dark Knight?

 

[DCDAVE]

Remember when early reactions called Batman v Superman better than The Dark Knight or Snyder's The Dark Knight?

I remember the early buzz was BVS was trash. I remember an insider on YouTube got lots of flack because he heard the movie was bad. I have heard few if any issues about the Flash movie.

 

[Frodo]

Oh them not doing press hurts.. but the awful stuff they did just isn't hurting the way the trades thought.

The strikes are gonna rain havoc on the summer films.

Well to be fair, with strikes going on, it's not as if the film is going to have a normal release in which the press would inevitably bring up Ezra's scandals and allegations .

So there's really not a chance for the awful stuff to be even be a big topic of conversation when the actors and filmmakers won't be hitting the circuit to begin with, due to the SAG and WGA strikes.

Audiences likely won't know about the behavior because the actor is keeping a low profile, and the cast likely won't even be promoting it due to the union rules anyway.

So it's not that GA wouldn't care about the scandals, it will be more that they won't know about the scandals, possibly because the film isn't generating the interest enough for people to pay attention to the lead.

So, while the scandals haven't been the attention getter, it's not because Audiences know, but don't care.

It's because audiences don't seem to be as hyped about the film as fans have been, the actor is lesser know and being kept hidden to begin , and promotion of the film from the cast in general will be limited by SAG and WGA strikes in general .

 

[Scarlet Spider]

I remember the early buzz was BVS was trash. I remember an insider on YouTube got lots of flack because he heard the movie was bad. I have heard few if any issues about the Flash movie.

Yeah, it was Drew McWeeney. He warned us in advance that the movie was bad and executives were very nervous about it.

Of course, everyone went into denial.

He was also famous for reviewing the JJ Abrams Superman script, when he was on AICN. Now THAT was a meltdown.

 

[DCDAVE]

Yeah, it was Drew McWeeney. He warned us in advance that the movie was bad and executives were very nervous about it.

Of course, everyone went into denial.

He was also famous for reviewing the JJ Abrams Superman script, when he was on AICN. Now THAT was a meltdown.

Thanks brother for giving me McWeeney’s name. I remember he would go on different YouTube shows defending what he heard. He got lots of flack for it. It was right after the rumored standing ovation from the WB execs. He was on an island alone. The worst I heard one insider say about the Flash is that the first hour of the movie is excellent but then it falls apart at the end. The insider said Zod was bad as well. For the most part even the YouTube guys that are pro Marvel and Snyder guys liked the movie.

 

[Invader Joker]

And while I know a bunch of DC fans thought The Flash looked good, I think a bunch of the GA (along with plenty of people on this board including myself) felt differently. When 80% of your trailer is CGI that looks bad as this does, that's gonna turn off A LOT of people. It may well be a great movie, but the trailers didn't do it justice, if that's the case. I think it will do well. It has enough hooks for that. Well enough to make a profit with that budget? Remains to be seen. But I don't think it was ever poised to be any kind of billion dollar megahit.

Yeah that's what I was thinking too. Even if you wanna say "Audiences don't care that much about CGI!" they still have eyes and if something looks off they'll notice it. There's a million little things in marketing that can turn off a consumer, to think that bad CGI in a movie trailer could be one of them is not far fetched at all. Aside from Quantumania I can't remember the last time trailers for a CBM had CGI this terrible.

Also, Ezra is uniquely bad as a lead because: No one knows them and the ones that do hate them. So yes, their anthics are having an impact.

 

[dhandler01]

So I guess the Transformers films are high art! The CGI in this is ten times any of that dreck. And don't get me started on half the MCU films or Sony films and their trash green screening.

And why does someone always bring up BvS? That just isn't the same thing at all. The great review stuff was all WB execs and some fan screenings. No one beyond the curated group said anything about it. When people outside that group watched it the truth started to come out. Every time people like a film others have to crap on the good vibes with that example?

YMMV but it gets a bit tiresome.

 

[kguillou]

Either way, whatever happens I am just enjoying this lead up, this movie feels like an event film and I'm going to enjoy the ride. I'm just happy my favorite Batman is back for one last ride.

 

[flickchick85]

So I guess the Transformers films are high art! The CGI in this is ten times any of that dreck. And don't get me started on half the MCU films or Sony films and their trash green screening.

And why does someone always bring up BvS? That just isn't the same thing at all. The great review stuff was all WB execs and some fan screenings. No one beyond the curated group said anything about it. When people outside that group watched it the truth started to come out. Every time people like a film others have to crap on the good vibes with that example?

YMMV but it gets a bit tiresome.

Of course the Transformers films aren’t good (except Bumblebee), but their CGI was never their problem. ILM mostly did strong work on those.

Sorry, but The Flash LOOKS like crap to me, because the trailers make the movie look like it’s 80% CGI, and that CGI looks like it’s already 20 years old, and not the slightest bit convincing. YMMV as you said, and you may not care about that, but some of the audience absolutely does. There’s a good size contingent who doesn’t like to go watch movies that actually look like video games. And like I said, I don’t think the movie’s gonna fail because it has other hooks to make up for it and is apparently a good movie so WOM should be strong, but for people wondering why tracking is looking so low, I can pretty much guarantee you those trailers are at least a significant factor.

 

[Karelia]

I think word of mouth will definitely make or break this film, similar to what GotG3 did. Someone else commented that in another thread, and I tend to agree with that. I think Guardians was tracking pretty low and ended up doing rather well (from last I saw.)

Really hoping this film delivers. I really got into the comics side of DC during Green Lantern/The Flash Rebirth and loved the build up to The Flashpoint story. Always been a much bigger DC fan over Marvel, although I enjoy both. Would like DC to have a successful film!

 

[Invader Joker]

So I guess the Transformers films are high art! The CGI in this is ten times any of that dreck. And don't get me started on half the MCU films or Sony films and their trash green screening.

You can criticize the CGI in the movies all you want, but the CGI in the trailers for MCU and Venom films hasn't been bad at all, or not to the extent The Flash has been. Every single time a new still, trailer, teaser or TV Spot gets released there's like a thousand comments clowning on different frames because of the CGI. The only time I remember that happening for an MCU flick has been in Quantumania and we all know how that went.
Also, when you're selling the movie to the general audience, a trailer is supposed to encapsulate the best parts about the movie. And because they aren't that engaged with this stuff they're probably more likely to dismiss things that don't look immediately good to them. They're not gonna engage in discussion enough to say "Well the movie still has a few months left to go and CGI doesn't represent quality".

Also I would go one step further that the bad CGI in the MCU films is significantly less egregious than the one seen in The Flash trailers.

 

[DCDAVE]

So I guess the Transformers films are high art! The CGI in this is ten times any of that dreck. And don't get me started on half the MCU films or Sony films and their trash green screening.

And why does someone always bring up BvS? That just isn't the same thing at all. The great review stuff was all WB execs and some fan screenings. No one beyond the curated group said anything about it. When people outside that group watched it the truth started to come out. Every time people like a film others have to crap on the good vibes with that example?

YMMV but it gets a bit tiresome.

The Flash movie was always going to have people wanting it to fail. Whether it’s because of Ezra, the old DCEU, the Spanish Supergirl or whatever people seem to hate on these days. I read your write up on it and I am going to go on opening night. The CGI complaints are comical.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I'm sorry, I genuinely don't see what is worse about the CG than any average MCU movie. If anything I think it looks a lot better than the murky dreck of, I dunno, an Infinity War or Endgame.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

The Flash movie was always going to have people wanting it to fail. Whether it’s because of Ezra, the old DCEU, the Spanish Supergirl or whatever people seem to hate on these days. I read your right up on it and I am going to go on opening night. The CGI complaints are comical.

However the movie turns out, this is true.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I can’t bring myself to really care about cg anymore knowing how overworked those folks are. It just is what it is to me.

 

[Karelia]

People complaining about CGI, as I sit here in 2023 watching Lois and Clark episodes from the early 90s lol.