9.17 - Checkmate - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[ArmsHeldOut]

As a feeling or opinion, I can't really argue it. You felt you weren't watching smallville. That can't change. In terms of reality, though. It's a completely untrue statement. This episode had the same type of writing and themes that smallville has retained since season 5, when Johnathan died. That's when the series started changing into what it is today. If that's not a show you like watching. simply stop.



That's great. Except everything that happens in the world affects the way he becomes Superman. The JSA, the JLA, Checkmate, Gotham, The Daily Planet, they're all tied into the character of Superman. Much more so than random kryptofreaks from early seasons.



Oliver was perfectly on character. Clark was pretty damned close too. This is far from the first time we've seen him intimidate people in order to get information. Besides rattling Tess a little bit, he didn't harm her. And i bet he wouldn't have had she called his bluff. His pitiful apologizing to Chloe is also dead on when it comes to his characterization, as always the one taking responsibility for a problem that he could have averted. Chloe was pretty close to her characterization this season. Though the writers seem to flip flop her every season.

Actually Tess creating the Injustice Society is pretty much identical to Waller's use of criminals in the Suicide Squad. Which is a government organization. Note that though the Injustice Society was comprised of Criminals, Tess never had them do anything bad. She was trying to stop Doomsday.



See my statement of characterization.



Is this a joke? are you kidding? The only thing that was even slightly reminiscent of 300 was the bullet time. Which Smallville has been using as a key style element since the first season. The only difference here, was that it was actually being used really stylishly, like the incredible super save in between flashes of the light of the security camera. It's Smallville's MO, just done to it's best possible level.

Hey man, you're welcome. I may disagree with, well, all your points. but it's good to get your opinion out there. Oh wait. I totally agree with that last bit, about limiting Erica's time. I really missed Lois in this one too.

Great great post. Thank you.

 

[Zorex]

Gah! Who is John working for, and who left the red chess piece?? Those two bits got me very, very hooked.

Not a bad episode. This show is never really that well written, sad to say, and it's been confusing trying to make sense of the revelation that Tess is with Checkmate. Retconning and changing character backgrounds or motivations to suit the storyline of the moment is typical of this show.

The rescue of Chloe was pretty badass, and seeing John use an array of Manhunter abilities was very, very cool. I think this was a good start on the last run of this season.

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

Am I the only one who feels this season is reaching? or maybe a better word to use would be, simply getting stupid?. I didn't mind this episode, it progressed stuff & whatnot but this season feels like a jumbled mess.

You're not the only one.

But the central focus on the Davis Bloomesday arc in S8, most notably in the second half, ended up being S8's downfall.


I don't mind the detour into the Checkmate stuff in case the Kandorian arc turns out to be fail. The Kandorian arc is already starting to get somewhat ridiculous.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Gah! Who is John working for, and who left the red chess piece?? Those two bits got me very, very hooked.

The Chess piece was that of a King and I'm guessing the only reason it appearance was red was because the power control at Castle was still off thanks to Oliver. So I'm sure that was The Black King aka: [blackout]Maxwell Lord[/blackout]

 

[Zorex]

The Chess piece was that of a King and I'm guessing the only reason it appearance was red was because the power control at Castle was still off thanks to Oliver. So I'm sure that was The Black King aka: [blackout]Maxwell Lord[/blackout]

Ahh, thank you, sir! Much appreciated, and... makes sense.

Now... to find out who John/J'onn is working for...

 

[Lighthouse]

Only part of the episode I really liked was when Clark rescued Chloe, staging it like action panels from a comic book. That was pretty brilliant.

 

[Webhead2006]

most figure its likely max lord from what we know of him from news articles.

 

[SpideyVille]

Well I don't know much about Max Lord, but that chess piece at the end look pretty red to me. I found it interesting how Martian Manhunter was talking about how picking sides isn't as easy as black and white (like a chess match) and then having that red piece and the talk about a new player.

Also, as much as I'm sure Chloe and Oliver's relationship seemed to come out of nowhere is feels kind of pointless, one thing I like about it is that this is Oliver's first real relationship with someone who not only knows his secret identity, but is also "fighting" side by side with him. That last scene where he says he was worried about Chloe made me look at this as a type of training for his relationship with Dinah in the future.

 

[KBX]

The Chess piece was that of a King and I'm guessing the only reason it appearance was red was because the power control at Castle was still off thanks to Oliver. So I'm sure that was The Black King aka: [blackout]Maxwell Lord[/blackout]

I think the chess piece was a queen... This is from Al septien, Smallville producer account.

@Floru_ Sorry, no spoilers on the Red Queen except... you'll hear from that character again.

http://twitter.com/alseptien

 

[Webhead2006]

really lord is the most logical person, since we know he is coming up soon, and he is after different game then waller.

 

[Hush]

I loved this episode! It was great and that action sequence at the end was hands down one of the best the show has ever offered. I cant believe that hadnt done action like that beforer in the show took like 9 season to actually get a compelling action sequence from them.

 

[Lighthouse]

I know it was impossible, but when she went back to look at the chessboard, I secretly hoping that the only chess piece on the board would be a black knight.

 

[Brainiac 8]

And who the hell was that guy wearing the "S" shield? That wasn't Clark. What the hell was Clark doing with dangling Tess like that? Audiences like me embrace the goodness in Clark; we care about Clark. Yet he comes off again as the one responsible and he has to apologize to Chloe?

Actually, Superman has and will use intimidation to get info out. Fortunately noone calls him on his bluffs. He was never going to hurt her, it was a bluff to get info, and it worked.

Oh, and I guess you would have a heart attack if you read earlier Superman stories, as he used to toss crooks from rooftops to their deaths or break limbs just so he wouldn't have to deal with them again.

Clark use to be a whole lot more cruel to criminals.

Even now, with his stance on killing, he will permanently deal with an enemy if the stakes are high enough.

 

[Superfreak]

would it be too far of a stray to consider Martha Kent as the Red Queen? There should be a better reason for her to show up, besides a friendly visit home?

 

[Superfreak]

would it be too far of a stray to consider Martha Kent as the Red Queen? There should be a better reason for her to show up, besides a friendly visit home?

 

[Mikelus]

^^ I thought the same, it could be a nice twist, trying to protect her son from the government.

 

[Webhead2006]

yea martha is an interesting ideal, but i would figure she is trying to stop checkmate's operation. Its is more likely going to be lord.

 

[flash13]

This episode had so many amazing scenes. Clark rescuing Chloe, John Jones using his powers to escape, and Oliver's conversation with Tess at the end. Definitely one of my favorites of the season!

 

[Webhead2006]

yea my fav stuff was all the john scenes.

 

[triplet]

Red Queen?

I don't get it, I couldn't really find much on that in a web search. I think my google-fu is broken...

Anyone care to lend a hand and enlighten me?

 

[Webhead2006]

yea i havent found anything myself trip, i would figure it has to be something from the comics. but i am not to knowledgeable on DC stuff besides the basics. But i still say red queen probably represents max lord though i think i read in the comics he was a different chess peice when he was invovled with checkmate in comics.

 

[KBX]

Well if you go by comics Maxwell Lord is the Black King. Waller is White Queen.

I still firmly believe if John Jones is working for Lord, you would have seen a black king. But I don't think Jones would be working for Lord in the first place. This new player doesn't have to be from Checkmate, since everything isn't always Black and White.

 

[triplet]

*sigh*

well, it's past time for me to get to bed, not sure why I'm up... trying to write this review, want it done before Friday.

 

[Webhead2006]

sorry we couldnt be a help to you trip.

 

[triplet]

sorry we couldnt be a help to you trip.

Thanks anyway...