Birds of Prey Birds of Prey General Discussion and Speculation

[rocco2216]

The thing is though is it seems like there are those specifically only picking on heterosexual men that love female eye candy and ignoring the lesbians and bi-sexuals like myself that also love that stuff. We loved it in stupid comic book action movies like Suicide Squad and Birds of Prey where all the characters were let’s face it not well written but who cares lol. Who and what is objectified is quite frankly unavoidable. Different people will drool over some people no matter what they’re wearing that others wouldn’t otherwise. There’s nothing wrong with objectifying each other as we are all animate objects and sexual creatures. As long as you recognize it’s also a human being and don’t treat them horribly it’s fine. Sorry it just comes off as if authoritarian liberal and conservative prudes that want to force their values onto us and shame us. I don’t like that. If you don’t like it don’t watch it, that simple. As a more moderate liberal myself I do think some liberals are a bit too overprotective of women when it isn’t necessary. I get it to a degree but calm down a bit lol. They’re big girls they can handle it, they’re not made out of glass lol. Do we need this for every movie? No of course not. Variety is great but let’s enjoy ourselves more often and not always overthink and politicize everything. Just my two cents. Cheers.

 

[Primal Slayer]

The thing is though is it seems like there are those specifically only picking on heterosexual men that love female eye candy and ignoring the lesbians and bi-sexuals like myself that also love that stuff. We loved it in stupid comic book action movies like Suicide Squad and Birds of Prey where all the characters were let’s face it not well written but who cares lol. Who and what is objectified is quite frankly unavoidable. Different people will drool over some people no matter what they’re wearing that others wouldn’t otherwise. There’s nothing wrong with objectifying each other as we are all animate objects and sexual creatures. As long as you recognize it’s also a human being and don’t treat them horribly it’s fine. Sorry it just comes off as if authoritarian liberal and conservative prudes that want to force their values onto us and shame us. I don’t like that. If you don’t like it don’t watch it, that simple. As a more moderate liberal myself I do think some liberals are a bit too overprotective of women when it isn’t necessary. I get it to a degree but calm down a bit lol. They’re big girls they can handle it, they’re not made out of glass lol. Do we need this for every movie? No of course not. Variety is great but let’s enjoy ourselves more often and not always overthink and politicize everything. Just my two cents. Cheers.

People pick on the heterosexual men gaze because it is the heterosexual men who are the ones making these choices...for other heterosexual men. Bi-sexual/lesbian who enjoy it are not thought of when they do this, and when the actress even goes as far to say "you wont be catching me in this again" she wasn't taken into consideration, it didnt play a part in the characterization. But if they choose to make the women look sexy as hell then...start doing the same with the males. If they ever adapt Namor, I expect him to be shirtless and in Harley sized shorts lol.

Take Patty and the Amazons for example, she was asked about WWs look and she was like "yeah, I love it, I think they should look this way" they were still sexy I think but of course there was a clear difference between her view on sexiness vs. Snyders

 

[rocco2216]

I know that’s why heterosexual men get picked on and I think it’s ridiculous. I don’t agree with that. It’s condescending to tell men directors that they can’t hyper sexualize women characters because the women directors don’t or as much. Of course the heterosexual men cater the most to heterosexual men, that’s what they want to see, what they’re attracted to, and they make up the majority of those that watch these type of films, plus there’s more of them than us bis and gays, makes sense. It’s nothing personal. You don’t know if no thought goes into appealing to us bi-sexuals and lesbians. Even if these heterosexual men directors didn't think of lesbians and bis in mind too who cares. We love that stuff too that's part of the point. Not all heterosexual men directors make these choices to hyper sexualize like Richard Donner, Christopher Nolan, Jon Favreau, Joss Weadon, Louis Letterier, Kenneth Branagh, Takai Watiti, James Gunn, Denis Villanueve, Steven Spielberg, Wes Anderson, Quentin Tarantino, etc, just to name a few among so much more. You say all that like it’s a bad thing, it’s not lol. Do all actresses say that? She can just not take on that role again, her choice that’s fine. Others don’t mind and that’s fine too. Every director male and female have different views and that’s fine. I know we all have different views on sexiness that’s part of what I said. What some find sexy others don’t. It’s subjective. We shouldn’t shame each other for that or act like one is superior or inferior to the other. There shouldn’t be one definitive view of sexuality in film and tv, that’s silly, ridiculous, and limiting. Not everyone is Patty Jenkins and shares her views and that’s ok. She’s doing her thing and others are doing theirs. 300 comes to mind from Zack Snyder the way the men looked. Was he appealing to mostly heterosexual women and gay men/bi-sexuals? Probably. Is Zack Snyder a gay man? Not to my knowledge. The more the merrier I say lol. So perhaps Zack Snyder should make a Namor movie so we can see those short shorts lol. Or perhaps that would only happen if it was a heterosexual woman, bi-sexual, or even a (gasp) gay man lol Would every heterosexual woman director have men reveal a lot? Not all I’m sure and that’s fine too.

 

[Micromind]

Snyder had better costumes for Amazons but people always bring up those outfits from the flashback scenes in the "JL history lesson"

 

[rocco2216]

Snyder had better costumes for Amazons but people always bring up those outfits from the flashback scenes in the "JL history lesson"

Hmmm, Zack Snyder Amazons, shirtless Spartans, and bad ass scantily clad women shooting guns in their imagination. This bi-sexual likes that a lot.

 

[pixen]

To be fair, it happens a lot with directors that have been mentioned. Scarlett Johansson in every Black Widow movie has had that zipper down and open. Makes no sense to have it like that but it’s there. It happened with the female director too. It just varies in levels. Some less than others. Nolan putting Batman in armor while Catwoman had a corset and latest look in heels. The fact that you can see her heels get swapped out while she fights to flats and wedges should say something about the practicality of the outfit they chose to use for her. Again, I love Anne’s Catwoman but it still has it’s faults.

And I think that it’s not just that it’s being specialized for the male gaze (or bi/lesbian gaze) it’s that they are being hyper sexualized in general where the men get the odd shirtless scene and that’s it. If both were sexualized up the wazoo, then no one would complain (or everyone would hah!)

 

[rocco2216]

To be fair, it happens a lot with directors that have been mentioned. Scarlett Johansson in every Black Widow movie has had that zipper down and open. Makes no sense to have it like that but it’s there. It happened with the female director too. It just varies in levels. Some less than others. Nolan putting Batman in armor while Catwoman had a corset and latest look in heels. The fact that you can see her heels get swapped out while she fights to flats and wedges should say something about the practicality of the outfit they chose to use for her. Again, I love Anne’s Catwoman but it still has it’s faults.

And I think that it’s not just that it’s being specialized for the male gaze (or bi/lesbian gaze) it’s that they are being hyper sexualized in general where the men get the odd shirtless scene and that’s it. If both were sexualized up the wazoo, then no one would complain (or everyone would hah!)

Sure it doesn’t always make sense but for some movies though does it need to? I don’t think so. I think certain heterosexual men directors are simply more expressive with sexuality sometimes like Zack Snyder. I don’t think it’s right not to let the men hyper sexualize just because the women directors don’t or don’t as much. It’s condescending, like saying ‘be more like the women.’ The Twilight films had shirtless guys galore as well as the two Magic Mike movies. Everyone has their own idea of what’s sexy, what’s too sexy, what’s not sexy enough. Everyone is different. Like some find men and women in uniform, military or police, sexy for example. Some don’t. Not all female characters in comic book movies and movies in general made by male directors are hyper sexualized like Suicide Squad. Perhaps being sexual creatures we can’t help but even subtly sexualize characters and people in every aspect of our lives and not realize it. And yeah it’s not like women directors make all the women characters look like nuns or anything as you’re right it varies in levels. Lol yes my friend perhaps there is no way to please everyone realistically, maybe I’m wrong I don’t know. It seems someone will always have a complaint. Perhaps that’ll change one day I don’t know. I’d be ok with more balance and variety ultimately haha.

 

[pixen]

Let me see the lower butt cheeks of all the male heroes, then I'll be fine with the women being the only characters showing some skin. We get shirtless men for one shot but then the women are either half nude or under armored compared to their male counterpart. Watch Namor happen and he's as flat as a Ken doll and completely covered up.

This is my last post on this cause it falls on deaf ears at this point.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Ayer definitely gave us his pov gaze when it comes to HQ. I of course dug his pov, especially with Margot in the role. lol Is it sexist? Absolutely. Her Ayer look has become a sorta of a pop culture classic tho, from versions of it in the comics, cartoon, cosplay and even wrestling etc. Beyonce dressed up as HQ for halloween that year and it was Ayer's look.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

But everything else was practically on display and she's 90% more covered now.

And SS had this sequence

fair enough but that was one scene, and it was mostly used to show the gaze of the other male characters. I would argue that's probably the only real sexualized scene of her.

 

[Black Narcissus]

fair enough but that was one scene, and it was mostly used to show the gaze of the other male characters. I would argue that's probably the only real sexualized scene of her.

Thankfully not.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

Her Ayer look has become a sorta of a pop culture classic tho, from versions of it in the comics, cartoon, cosplay and even wrestling etc. Beyonce dressed up as HQ for halloween that year and it was Ayer's look.

I made that point too, the general public loved Ayer’s look.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

Thankfully not.

Ehhh.... from a certain point of view I guess.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Ehhh.... from a certain point of view I guess.

I doubt Yan would've shot this scene tho, that is the valid point some are making here tho. I agree with, but I also am ok with all the male gaze stuff. See, a perfect balance, one can admit to a scene being completely sexist while also liking it. Heh.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

To be fair, it happens a lot with directors that have been mentioned. Scarlett Johansson in every Black Widow movie has had that zipper down and open. Makes no sense to have it like that but it’s there. It happened with the female director too. It just varies in levels. Some less than others. Nolan putting Batman in armor while Catwoman had a corset and latest look in heels. The fact that you can see her heels get swapped out while she fights to flats and wedges should say something about the practicality of the outfit they chose to use for her. Again, I love Anne’s Catwoman but it still has it’s faults.

And I think that it’s not just that it’s being specialized for the male gaze (or bi/lesbian gaze) it’s that they are being hyper sexualized in general where the men get the odd shirtless scene and that’s it. If both were sexualized up the wazoo, then no one would complain (or everyone would hah!)

I brought this up years ago in this board but, while male heroes are usually covered up i vehemently disagree about their costumes being practical. This is ESCAPISM! Catwoman should be able to kick ass in heels!

 

[Madam-Shogun]

I doubt Yan would've shot this scene tho,

I would have, depending on the context. Women aren't monolithic.

 

[Black Narcissus]

I would have, depending on the context. Women aren't monolithic.

 

[rocco2216]

Let me see the lower butt cheeks of all the male heroes, then I'll be fine with the women being the only characters showing some skin. We get shirtless men for one shot but then the women are either half nude or under armored compared to their male counterpart. Watch Namor happen and he's as flat as a Ken doll and completely covered up.

This is my last post on this cause it falls on deaf ears at this point.

Ok that’s what would satisfy you my friend that’s fine, that’s where you stand. It didn’t fall on deaf ears with me. I understand what you’re saying and what you want. It just wouldn’t matter to me one way or another. If it happens then it happens, if it doesn’t then it doesn’t. I just wonder which men and women directors would be willing to sexualize a lot more men that way.

 

[blackdragon6]

Ayer definitely gave us his pov gaze when it comes to HQ. I of course dug his pov, especially with Margot in the role. lol Is it sexist? Absolutely. Her Ayer look has become a sorta of a pop culture classic tho, from versions of it in the comics, cartoon, cosplay and even wrestling etc. Beyonce dressed up as HQ for halloween that year and it was Ayer's look.

Which is why I was surprised by some people's negative reaction to her outfit on the internet. Cause in the real world that costume was absurdly popular. Probably more so than slave Leia

 

[flickchick85]

Which is why I was surprised by some people's negative reaction to her outfit on the internet. Cause in the real world that costume was absurdly popular. Probably more so than slave Leia

And slave Leia's another massively sexist, male-gaze-y costume. Something being popular doesn't make it any less sexist or gross.

 

[chamber-music]

Catwoman is a burglar, she has no reason to wear armor. Being super agile is also one of her major skills and that is limited with bulky armor.

Women sometimes wear heels in movies because they are often shorter than their male co-stars and need the added height to appear in the camera frame alongside the male actors.

There are certainly occasions when heels are impractical yet are still worn in movies though. Bryce Dallas Howard's character in Jurassic World got mentioned for her impractical heels in the movie.

Michael Bay get's pointed out for his male gaze. Megan Fox bent over a car in Transformers being a notable one.

There is no denying sex sells though. Most actors have lead roles in movies in part to their sex appeal/appearance. Every Marvel film has at least one shirtless male superhero scene.

 

[blackdragon6]

And slave Leia's another massively sexist, male-gaze-y costume. Something being popular doesn't make it any less sexist or gross.

Different strokes for different folks. I think Tyler Perry is problematic, a lot of other black people disagree with me. My thinking has always been let people enjoy things.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

Ugh...Tyler Perry lol

 

[Micromind]

 

[Sithborg]

I don't think Harley's SS costume is inherently bad. The problem comes with Ayer's camera practically leering at her throughout the film. Hell, both SS and BOP had her in a wet t-shirt at one time. The male gaze argument does not necessarily have to do with costumes, but how the camera frames the actor. And a good example of that is Black Widow. Rewatching Iron Man 2 is kind of embarrassing.