Discussion: Afghanistan/The Taliban

[MessiahDecoy123]

So the Taliban is taking over Afghanistan after the US withdrawal. Many are desperately crowding airports.

What are your thoughts?

 

[InCali]

I don't know if they could have stretched out the withdrawal longer in order to accommodate moving more people or the logistics of moving a lot of people so, for right now, I'm just feeling really bad for those people.

 

[Reaver027]

It is really sad and a colossal failure of our western goverments. We should have had a visa ready for everyone that helped us and wanted to leave the day we were withdrawing our troops.
What will happen to the women there now is sickening.

But i do agree with Biden on one thing. It does not matter if we stayed there for longer or not if the afgahn army does not want to fight for their country.

 

[Iceman]

This is a huge disaster and very sad to see. These situations are very complex to handle and I doubt there is or would have been a straightforward solution, but just very sad to see what is happening now and likely to happen as a result of the Taliban getting into power.

 

[InCali]

I love it when I hear people say "We have to do something for every, single person who wants to leave Afghanistan" without offering any concrete suggestions. I can't believe that what happened was the best case scenario WRT planning the exit, but these morons who stand on the sidelines and criticize without offering anything tangible can go EF themselves. If I'm going to criticize, I'm at least willing to offer an alternative approach.

 

[Sithborg]

A thread from one of the higher up Afghanis. The fault on the chaos is absolutely because the higher ups cut and run, with no plans for anyone else except them selves. Biden will get his fair of **** for this, rightfully so. But to be clear, this sham of a government we were propping up deserves most of the blame.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I love it when I hear people say "We have to do something for every, single person who wants to leave Afghanistan" without offering any concrete suggestions. I can't believe that what happened was the best case scenario WRT planning the exit, but these morons who stand on the sidelines and criticize without offering anything tangible can go EF themselves. If I'm going to criticize, I'm at least willing to offer an alternative approach.

I wish Iraq Kurdistan were bigger then I think it could be used as a secular, sanctuary state for asylum seeking immigrants from the mid-east with a powerful US military base to prevent outside forces from destabilizing or invading the region.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I was wondering what percentage of Afghanistan is pro-Taliban.

If it's more than 50% then I doubt a pro-American government would have much of a chance againt the devout Taliban forces.

 

[InCali]

I wish Iraq Kurdistan were bigger then I think it could be used as a secular, sanctuary state for asylum seeking immigrants from the mid-east with a powerful US military base to prevent outside forces from destabilizing or invading the region.

Yeah. There really needs to be a place where an alliance could invest in technology and commerce. Where people can dress how they please without getting killed, raped, forced to marry, etc. I think establishing areas like this and establishing a relatively wealthy, healthy society would serve long term goals and give people an alternative.

 

[Fosterson]

I was wondering what percentage of Afghanistan is pro-Taliban.

If it's more than 50% then I doubt a pro-American government would have much of a chance againt the devout Taliban forces.

Its hard to know for sure, but the evidence I've seen indicates that there is probably not a majority pro-Taliban constituency. For example, this 2019 study found that 87% of Afghans responded positively when asked about whether or not women should have equal educational opportunities with men (pages 218-9):

https://asiafoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/2019_Afghan_Survey_Full-Report.pdf

Is Afghanistan a pretty socially conservative society when compared with most Western countries? Sure. But that doesn't mean that most of them support the kind of theocratic totalitarian fascism embodied by the Taliban.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

NY Times - What Did the U.S. Get for $2 Trillion in Afghanistan? (2019)

NY Times - U.S. and Afghan Forces Killed More Civilians Than Taliban Did, Report Finds (2019)

 

[Green Goblin]

Leaving Afghanistan was the right move, ultimately the blame lies with the Afgan government.

 

[Sithborg]

Fairly certain Trump laid some of the bedrock for catastrophe as well. He apparently freed 5000 Taliban fighters in his deal with the Taliban.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Its hard to know for sure, but the evidence I've seen indicates that there is probably not a majority pro-Taliban constituency. For example, this 2019 study found that 87% of Afghans responded positively when asked about whether or not women should have equal educational opportunities with men (pages 218-9):

https://asiafoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/2019_Afghan_Survey_Full-Report.pdf

Is Afghanistan a pretty socially conservative society when compared with most Western countries? Sure. But that doesn't mean that most of them support the kind of theocratic totalitarian fascism embodied by the Taliban.

Yeah I've seen other polls where 90 percent of the population supported the non-Taliban form of government so I'm unsure why we couldn't create a large anti-Taliban local army to prevent this Taliban takeover.

 

[Sithborg]

Yeah I've seen other polls where 90 percent of the population supported the non-Taliban form of government so I'm unsure why we couldn't create a large anti-Taliban local army to prevent this Taliban takeover.

Because so much of this **** was handed to people who didn't want Afghanistan to be self supporting.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Says a lot.

 

[Marvolo]

Just saw the video of people falling from the plane. I know they couldn't open the door for fear of being swamped, but once they were moving they should have opened the side door and ramp and got those people inside. Or shot the people before taking off. A bullet in the leg would at least be less dangerous than falling a thousand feet.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Stonekettle Station: Bitter Pill

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

 

[Sithborg]

That's some whiplash.

 

[Sithborg]

Yeah, should have seen that coming.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

'Feminism made Afghanistan fail!'

What a maroon.

 

[Sithborg]

'Feminism made Afghanistan fail!'

What a maroon.

The GOP falling in love with the Taliban wasn't on my bingo card. The combo of racism, islamaphobia, and envy I've seeing is impressive.



[eye twitches]

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Has anyone else heard that our Intel services had a general estimation that the Afghan govt. would at a minimum be able to defend against the Taliban for 3-4 months and that this analysis was what was spread up to the presidential advisor level?

Again, just hearing this and wanted to know if anyone read or has some links to this affect?

It seems a lot of faith was put into the idea that the collapse of the Kabul govt. would take some time at least. Only months, granted, but that's time to proceed with a more orderly withdrawl.

It's obvious the reality on the ground was way different, but if this is so, who kept pushing this idea up the chain of command?

Also I keep hearing Trump had a plan... What was it exactly? Or was it just a bunch of bench marks that were never going to be met but which would give Trump a fig leaf to continue extending operations there? Because Trump seemed to finalize this exit as soon as Nov. 2020 passed, yes?

 

[Marvolo]

Analysis: Rick Scott just went there on Joe Biden and the 25th Amendment