Can we call out European Cowardice?

[Addendum]

Let the dead vote then...

...waits for results...

Nothing's changed.

 

[The Overlord]

You mistake the meaning of the post. The part about Memphis was a through away line to try and drive the point home - obviously I gave some of you too much credit. The point of the post was you cannot ignore the political power of the blossoming Muslim immigrant community in Europe. No, America isn't under under immediate threat from politically active Muslims, insomuch as a silent coup, and probably never will be at least in my lifetime if in fact ever. (hmmmm, seems like that might have been alluded to in the original post) But the political landscape is shifting in Europe and as we all know the rank and file don't set the course of politics, it's generally the vocal minority of those in power. As an example let's pick a country, say, Mauritania. It's an Islamic Repuoblic (or at least was uintil recently) but it's illegal to trade (buy, sell, or give away) Bibles in that country. Most of the population could probably care less, but the squeaky wheels who scream and shout "there is only one god, allah and mohammed is is prohpet" got the greasin' to the detriment of freedom.

And good luck gettin' a pulled pork sammich with coleslaw on the bun there!

First don't be rude and second you are still being paranoid, those events have not yet come to pass and third comparsion that silly deseves to be mocked.

When bashing Europe I am referring more to France, Germany and Spain more than countries like Denmark and Ireland.

If you are gong to bash Europe, you don't have room to complain when people from Europe bash America.

 

[The Major]

Actually the Western European powers deserve just as much blame as we do. They're the ones who pretty much created Israel. They're the ones who turned the Middle East into colonies after World War I. They're the ones who fought the Islamic Empire in the name of religion.

True.

And they behave pretty much the same way we do such as Britain's support of overthrowing governments. Germany's support of Israel. France's invasion of Egypt with Britain. This whole anti-Western backlash among the Islamic world has been building up for hundreds of years and the reason why the United States is the focus is because we are the most prominent Western power today.

How much do those countries contribute to funding Israel and giving them weapons?

 

[The Major]

Actually that is a factor, but not the only factor. The US government has screwed around with Latin America, but I don't see Chilians flying planes into buildings.

They do illegally immigrate to America because their countries are still in bad shape, though. America has done very little to allow them to become more then third world nations.

 

[SuBe]

Get back on topic everyone.

Europe = Cowards?

 

[VampElvis]

First don't be rude

I shall be as I wish as long as I am free to do so.

and second you are still being paranoid, those events have not yet come to pass

Which events?
The political takeover of a country? No, not yet - I'm trying to open your eyes to the possibility of this.
The sharia courts in England? Oh yes, very much they are there.
Call me paranoid, I could similarly encourage you to take your head of the sand and cast your eyes to the future. This will happen the population dynamics dictate it. When it does, hopefully the Muslim population will have acculturated to the point there will be no oppression of infidels (used in the strict sense of non-muslims) or the forcing of their ideology on everyone. This is my hope. All you see if my fear, the other side of the coin.

and third comparsion that silly deseves to be mocked.

I don’t happen to find the denial of the freedom of religion or the pursuit of happiness (eating a pulled pork BBQ sandwich with coleslaw on the bun, mm-mmm good!) to be very silly at all. And again, I don’t think you really understand the point. It’s not an ad hominem attack on Muslims. I know many people of many different faiths including Muslims. The point is most of these people (the masses) really wouldn’t care if there was church down the street giving out Bibles or if Tom Cruise and Edgar Winter came along to give e-meter tests. But if you look at your Islamic Republics, the majority of them are “ruled” by the vocal minority that finds this behavior very objectionable as is evidenced in their legal codes. If there is no acculturation, look for the trend to continue as their influence spread to the west.

 

[SuBe]

Vamp, back on Topic. No need for that "Head out of the Sand" stuff.

 

[hippie_hunter]

How much do those countries contribute to funding Israel and giving them weapons?

al-Qaeda's existence and the existence of other terrorist groups go beyond supporting Israel. They exist because the West has pretty much treated the Middle East like crap since the 1800's and been at odds with it for even longer. Israel is just a small piece in the large puzzle.

 

[BlackLantern]

a small part of me says lets just pull out of the Middle East all together....let them fight it out and we'll do business with whoever wins....

 

[StorminNorman]

If you are gong to bash Europe, you don't have room to complain when people from Europe bash America.

I can live with that.

 

[danielisthor]

a small part of me says lets just pull out of the Middle East all together....let them fight it out and we'll do business with whoever wins....

Part of me agrees. Another very small part of me says to nuke the entire region. (it's a very very small part - less than .001%)


Back on topic - Europe is weak and cowardly.

 

[StorminNorman]

a small part of me says lets just pull out of the Middle East all together....let them fight it out and we'll do business with whoever wins....

It works well on paper, but not in reality. International Relations aren't improved by retreating.

 

[Addendum]

Neither is sticking our nose in other country's problems.

 

[StorminNorman]

Unless those problems affect America.

 

[Addendum]

And whether they actually do is another discussion

 

[StorminNorman]

In the case of the Middle East...it really isn't a debate.

 

[Addendum]

For some

 

[Marx]

In the case of the Middle East...it really isn't a debate.

Agreed.

 

[The Major]

al-Qaeda's existence and the existence of other terrorist groups go beyond supporting Israel. They exist because the West has pretty much treated the Middle East like crap since the 1800's and been at odds with it for even longer. Israel is just a small piece in the large puzzle.

True.

 

[DACrowe]

Cute, but wrong.

I never stated that the reason America entered the war was the fall of France, I simply stated that when America entered the war France had been overtaken by Nazi Germany and England was being bombed. This was in response to point of why would Europe want to involve itself in a war that they didn't know for a fact they were going to win.

Also, I would ask what I made up. Al Queda HAS attacked Europe.

Well to be fair, Nazi Germany was allied with Japan, who had bombed us and by the end of 1941, the Blitzkrieg had mostly failed (partially thanks to US government helping Britain out under the table) and Germany was on the decline because they were now waging a two-front war with Russia which was spreading them thin and destroying them, just like Napoleon a century before.

I somewhat agree with your sentiment, I'm just pointing out that Nazi Germany was not "invincible" as 1942 rolled around and considering the US had avoided the last 2-3 years of war we could safely cross the ocean and begin fighting the "Good War" in Africa and Europe.

Albeit, there is a big difference between the "Good War," as in the clearest example in modern history of right vs. wrong, good vs. evil, etc. and the murky hellhole known as Middle Eastern politics.

With that said I would agree Afghanistan has been a Just War in both international law and philosophical theory and dismantling the Talihban from power, crippling al-Qaeda's strongest ally and rebuilding the infrastructure at least partially in Afghanistan can wholly be considered the right thing to do and unfortunately has been poorly handled up to this point.

But why will Europe not follow our lead? The same reason they never do in such matters, they want the superpower to most of the heavy lifting. While the US should lead the way, the fact that Europe does not follow is not cowardice so much as deplorable self-interest. I think President Obama will improve our relationship and ties with Europe and that can only help the Global Economy in some respects and future measures on combating terrorism and aiding nations in need. However, many have fooled themselves into thinking the anti-American sentiment in Europe and other countries begins and ends with Bush. Bush was a logical and real reason to resent US policy, but as much as the world likes having the US superpower bearing the brunt of the western world, they also will always excerise the ability to resent the country as well.

 

[The Major]

a small part of me says lets just pull out of the Middle East all together....let them fight it out and we'll do business with whoever wins....

Which is why America should be moving onto alternate energy as a power source. Oil has kept America far to ingrained into the Middle East then it has to be.

 

[nathaniel]

Which is why America should be moving onto alternate energy as a power source. Oil has kept America far to ingrained into the Middle East then it has to be.

We all know it will never happen though there is far to much money to be made in oil.

And its a bit late now isnt it? Like Obama once said we should have been researching into Alternative energy decades ago just because some of the arab nations are now enemies of the US (amazingly while they still buy oil from them pouring billoins into the coffers of RI sympafises) its all the rage to cry alternative energy as it is expect it to take decades to create a viable alternative energy source that is cost effective in fact it will probably not happen in my lifetime if it ever does.

 

[The Major]

We all know it will never happen though there is far to much money to be made in oil.

It hasn't happen yet.

And its a bit late now isnt it?

It's never to late.

Like Obama once said we should have been researching into Alternative energy decades ago just because some of the arab nations are now enemies of the US (amazingly while they still buy oil from them pouring billoins into the coffers of RI sympafises) its all the rage to cry alternative energy as it is expect it to take decades to create a viable alternative energy source that is cost effective in fact it will probably not happen in my lifetime if it ever does.

Maybe, maybe not. We'll only know if America tries. Obama is off to a great start IMO. Alternate energy technology is furthur along then I suspected. It's going to get much better with the proper funding unlike in the past.

 

[SuBe]

Proper Funding? Like, taxpayer funding, right?

 

[The Major]

Proper Funding? Like, taxpayer funding, right?

Do you have any other idea where they can get the funding without the government's assistance? The private sector buried it. I don't see why you're so critical. Sure it needs funding now but when it's financially healthy enough to be independent it can join the private sector as another industry America can add to its arsenal.