The Rise of Skywalker General Star Wars Episode IX News/Speculation Thread - Part 1

[TheVileOne]

The milk is spilled, the horse is dead. If you ever do something set after Episode 9, IMO, just set it so far in the future that the characters are basically legend or folklore.

I'd like to see a future where there is a New Jedi Order and a New Republic in full swing.

I think JJ Abrams made a mistake by just tossing out the New Republic right off the bat. At the time, I never really adjusted to the enormity and impact of what Starkiller had just done.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

I'm disliking TROS more and more as each day goes by. It's really bad, honestly.

I thought it was daft after seeing it the first time.

 

[Frodo]

If they're looking at another trilogy in the next ten years or so, They're going to have to take the Mando route and tell a new story, with new characters ,in a familiar world.

No doubt they'll eventually get back to the ST characters somewhere down the line. Even then ,it's going to have to be something different than Rebels vs Empire, Resistance vs The First Order, Final Order, Next Order of fries, whatever.

There needs to be a new threat which isn't the Godchild of Vader , nephew of Palpatine, or a cousin twice removed of a Skywalker or Solo.

I'm being facetious yes, but my point is they need to do something new to challenge the new Heroes , or the old heroes like Rey, Finn, and Poe.

It seems to me, they have a whole catalog of EU content , characters, stories, and jumping off points, they could mine, shape, or exploit, to tell new stories.

They shouldn't have to adapt stories whole sale, but those could be starting points if the well is dry with ideas.

 

[henzINNIT]

Disney should definitely avoid the bait of reusing Stormtroopers again. Sadly, I honestly don't know if they'd have it in them.

 

[Frodo]

Well that's thing. Disney wants to lean into the iconography of the OT including the Stormtroopers.

At this point, with a franchise 40 years on , and a whole galaxy of stories and possibilities which haven't been mined, or ideas which haven't been explored on film yet, I believe there's more than enough to go beyond just redoing variations of the OT trilogy.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Watched TFA again last weekend and it still has that SW magic for me. Some of its impact is now lessened by now knowing I hate the movie that follows it. But TFA itself I still like a lot.

On the other hand, what The Mandalorian is doing is what SW needs to do more of going forward. It honours what came before but at the same time gives us something exciting and new.

 

[Sian]

I'm disliking TROS more and more as each day goes by. It's really bad, honestly.

And...that is what's truly unforgiveable. It's terribly made. I've honestly tried to re watch it, as I'm a huge Kylo fan, but the film is so poorly made it's hard to believe it's a genuine SW film. It has no plot - something the prequels, for their flaws, did have, in spades. The script is awful. Scenes such as Lando turning up with a fleet at the last minute didn't have one bit of the magic of the originals, like Luke using the Force at the end of ANH with Obi Wan's help. Instead they were corny.
Every character's depth and complexity was shunted aside to push Rey, Rey, Rey. And Rey was just intolerable, an over powered Force goddess who by the end of the film I absolutely couldn't stand.
That film has completely destroyed SW. Whoever thought wiping out the bloodline of the heroes was a good idea needs their head looking. I'll never be able to watch the other films in the same light again - in fact, I don't think I can watch them again, period. The villain won. The magic's gone. SW died for me with Ben Solo.

 

[Brother Jack]

Well that's thing. Disney wants to lean into the iconography of the OT including the Stormtroopers.

At this point, with a franchise 40 years on , and a whole galaxy of stories and possibilities which haven't been mined, or ideas which haven't been explored on film yet, I believe there's more than enough to go beyond just redoing variations of the OT trilogy.

Lucas invented a gigantic universe wherein any kind of story imaginable could be told. There are certain rules you can't divert from, but they are very few and far between. Part of the genius of the original film is that it implied a seemingly limitless galaxy of possibilities beyond the scope of each frame, and the best Star Wars content since then has tapped into that, even while it was focusing in on often very intimate storytelling.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

Which is why it sucked seeing them shoot in the desert and call it a planet again, in 2015. When they could’ve done anything. And it barely got any better throughout the trilogy.

there is keeping to the spirit of the original and there is this. Restricting yourself to the limitations of 1978.

 

[Brother Jack]

Which is why it sucked seeing them shoot in the desert and call it a planet again, in 2015. When they could’ve done anything. And it barely got any better throughout the trilogy.

there is keeping to the spirit of the original and there is this. Restricting yourself to the limitations of 1978.

Whereas the OT borrowed a lot from other classic films, the ST took from other Star Wars movies. JJ Abrams is incapable of committing to an original idea. It's not all his fault certainly, but that has been the defining characteristic of his entire body of work. He is aggravatingly uncreative.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

It's interesting that in both 2015 and 2017, there was a movie that attempted to do what the sequel trilogy tried to do but actually pulled it off. Fury Road and Blade Runner 2049.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Fury Road and Blade Runner 2049 are absolute modern masterpieces and both are superior to what came before n their franchises. For me, I still respect the hell out of TLJ even though i don't think it's perfect and I can enjoy Force Awakens but honestly TROS really hurt my view on the trilogy. It's at the point where I think I actually prefer the prequels.

speaking of which, I may actually rewatch Phantom Menace tonight. I was so burnt out after TROS, but The mandalorian season 2 has sparked my interest again.

 

[jmc]

And...that is what's truly unforgiveable. It's terribly made. I've honestly tried to re watch it, as I'm a huge Kylo fan, but the film is so poorly made it's hard to believe it's a genuine SW film. It has no plot - something the prequels, for their flaws, did have, in spades. The script is awful. Scenes such as Lando turning up with a fleet at the last minute didn't have one bit of the magic of the originals, like Luke using the Force at the end of ANH with Obi Wan's help. Instead they were corny.
Every character's depth and complexity was shunted aside to push Rey, Rey, Rey. And Rey was just intolerable, an over powered Force goddess who by the end of the film I absolutely couldn't stand.
That film has completely destroyed SW. Whoever thought wiping out the bloodline of the heroes was a good idea needs their head looking. I'll never be able to watch the other films in the same light again - in fact, I don't think I can watch them again, period. The villain won. The magic's gone. SW died for me with Ben Solo.

What I want to know is what exactly was it people expected after TLJ? The thing about the TLJ supporters was there was a consistent theme of being excited about not knowing where Episode 9 could go. The inherent problem many of us pointed out though was that by ending TLJ the way Johnson did, it backed JJ into a corner where there were few threads to pick up on from and create a satisfying conclusion to. And some of those same people were surprised at just how bad TROS ended? You mean to tell me you're shocked the final part of the trilogy failed to create a satisfying conclusion because the previous movie left nothing of substance left over to work from? I mean really? What other possible outcome could there have been?

 

[Blade Hoarder]

JJ also left RJ in tight corners after TFA. Johnson was still able to spin a decent and surprising yarn out of it. JJ didn’t. It wasn’t Rian that forced him to bring back Palpatine. It wasn’t Rian that made him pursue Reylo. It wasn’t RJ that forced him to create more stupid side characters. Or sideline Rose. He did it all by himself.

 

[jmc]

He kinda was forced though. The reason why there were so many people excited for Episode 9 and loving the idea of not knowing where it could go was because Johnson didn't leave any loose threads for the story to naturally continue. Episode 9 was for all intense and purposes a blank slate. But a blank slate structurally makes zero sense for the last film into a trilogy. You can blame JJ for the beginning, you can't blame him for how Johnson made the middle chapter end. Part of the fun of Star Wars is the speculation that happens in between films based off the story thread left over. But the story conversation in between 8 and 9 was virtually non-existent because there was nothing left to really speculate on other than some vague concepts that never made for a compelling final act. If fans were having trouble finding conversation about where things would go, what on earth made anybody think the creative team would find it any easier? Just because they are professionals doesn't mean they are geniuses. I'm in the midst of working with some folks creating an original story (first time ever haha!) and when you're trapped in a corner story wise you can either try and fix what's there, or you'll have to knock down entire parts of the structure and rebuild.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

He kinda was forced though. The reason why there were so many people excited for Episode 9 and loving the idea of not knowing where it could go was because Johnson didn't leave any loose threads for the story to naturally continue. Episode 9 was for all intense and purposes a blank slate. But a blank slate structurally makes zero sense for the last film into a trilogy. You can blame JJ for the beginning, you can't blame him for how Johnson made the middle chapter end. Part of the fun of Star Wars is the speculation that happens in between films based off the story thread left over. But the story conversation in between 8 and 9 was virtually non-existent because there was nothing left to really speculate on other than some vague concepts that never made for a compelling final act. If fans were having trouble finding conversation about where things would go, what on earth made anybody think the creative team would find it any easier? Just because they are professionals doesn't mean they are geniuses. I'm in the midst of working with some folks creating an original story (first time ever haha!) and when you're trapped in a corner story wise you can either try and fix what's there, or you'll have to knock down entire parts of the structure and rebuild.

Fully agree with this. In fact in 2017 after seeing TLJ for the first time, I came straight on here to say that I don't know where they go with the 3rd movie as TLJ just didn't leave enough to pick up and that we needed 2 more movies to conclude this story rather than 1.

 

[henzINNIT]

Stuff to pick up on after TLJ:

- How the Resistance can rebuild and stop the First Order
- What Rey will choose to do as the last Jedi and the bearer of its future
- What Finn will achieve as rebel scum fighting to overturn his captors
- How Poe will step into his role as leader of the Resistance
- Whether Rose sustained any serious injury
- Whether Luke will return after becoming one with the force
- Kylo's reign as Supreme Leader, his goals and his methods of achieving them
- Hux and the rest of the First Order's reaction to new leadership

Just considering the more prominent characters individually. There is of course all the various inter-personal stuff between them. Then you have a ton of plot stuff from 7 and 8 you could follow up on:

- The 'Awakening' in the force, how/what/why
- The origins of Snoke and the First Order forces. How they rose in secret under the new republic
- What FO occupied planets look like. What has changed and how they maintain order.
- The fall of Luke's school and Snoke's corruption of Kylo
- Where Finn came from, where the other children were taken, and the First Order's brainwashing
- The Knights of Ren
- How Maz got hold of Luke's lightsaber (lol)
- The canto bight class, war-profiteers and their relation to galactic conflict

And I'm sure a bunch more. To me the problem wasn't that there was nowhere to go after 8. The only corner JJ was backed into was that he couldn't just remake RotJ, but he just sort of wormed his way into doing that anyway.

 

[Brother Jack]

What I want to know is what exactly was it people expected after TLJ? The thing about the TLJ supporters was there was a consistent theme of being excited about not knowing where Episode 9 could go. The inherent problem many of us pointed out though was that by ending TLJ the way Johnson did, it backed JJ into a corner where there were few threads to pick up on from and create a satisfying conclusion to. And some of those same people were surprised at just how bad TROS ended? You mean to tell me you're shocked the final part of the trilogy failed to create a satisfying conclusion because the previous movie left nothing of substance left over to work from? I mean really? What other possible outcome could there have been?

It is by no means perfect, but Trevorrow's Duel of the Fates would have done a much better job of following up TLJ. And by that I mean actually utilizing characters introduced in that film like Rose and continuing upon ideas presented in that film. Luke haunting Kylo as he implied he would, Kylo actually being the bad bad, Finn leading a Stormtrooper rebellion as the logical outcome of his arc, etc.

 

[Brother Jack]

Abrams failed to even follow up on things he himself introduced in TFA. The Knights of Ren, Finn, BB-8, and Hux had next to nothing to do.

 

[jmc]

Stuff to pick up on after TLJ:

- How the Resistance can rebuild and stop the First Order
- What Rey will choose to do as the last Jedi and the bearer of its future
- What Finn will achieve as rebel scum fighting to overturn his captors
- How Poe will step into his role as leader of the Resistance
- Whether Rose sustained any serious injury
- Whether Luke will return after becoming one with the force
- Kylo's reign as Supreme Leader, his goals and his methods of achieving them
- Hux and the rest of the First Order's reaction to new leadership

Just considering the more prominent characters individually. There is of course all the various inter-personal stuff between them. Then you have a ton of plot stuff from 7 and 8 you could follow up on:

- The 'Awakening' in the force, how/what/why
- The origins of Snoke and the First Order forces. How they rose in secret under the new republic
- What FO occupied planets look like. What has changed and how they maintain order.
- The fall of Luke's school and Snoke's corruption of Kylo
- Where Finn came from, where the other children were taken, and the First Order's brainwashing
- The Knights of Ren
- How Maz got hold of Luke's lightsaber (lol)
- The canto bight class, war-profiteers and their relation to galactic conflict

And I'm sure a bunch more. To me the problem wasn't that there was nowhere to go after 8. The only corner JJ was backed into was that he couldn't just remake RotJ, but he just sort of wormed his way into doing that anyway.

But there was no underlying story to move onto. Over the course of 5 years no-one has been able to say what the overall story for this trilogy is about, because they can’t. You cannot finish a story when none exists. All you have is a series of events.

 

[jmc]

It is by no means perfect, but Trevorrow's Duel of the Fates would have done a much better job of following up TLJ. And by that I mean actually utilizing characters introduced in that film like Rose and continuing upon ideas presented in that film. Luke haunting Kylo as he implied he would, Kylo actually being the bad bad, Finn leading a Stormtrooper rebellion as the logical outcome of his arc, etc.

It was better but it was still very much a the third part of a puzzle that never really fit together.

 

[henzINNIT]

But there was no underlying story to move onto. Over the course of 5 years no-one has been able to say what the overall story for this trilogy is about, because they can’t. You cannot finish a story when none exists. All you have is a series of events.

TROS basically invalidated the first two for me so I'm not inclined to argue this point much. Until then I thought there was some interesting stuff about legacy and what to do in the face of recurrent evil, but it wasn't a whole story. I think a good 3rd part was achievable and the ST would be a very different conversation if a decent writer was involved. Trevorrow got pretty close afterall and I don't credit him as particularly great writer.

 

[TheVileOne]

Watched TFA again last weekend and it still has that SW magic for me. Some of its impact is now lessened by now knowing I hate the movie that follows it. But TFA itself I still like a lot.

On the other hand, what The Mandalorian is doing is what SW needs to do more of going forward. It honours what came before but at the same time gives us something exciting and new.

I generally feel the same. I maintain that Force Awakens was a good starting point and they could've done a lot better based off that film.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I generally feel the same. I maintain that Force Awakens was a good starting point and they could've done a lot better based off that film.

Yep it was a damn good set up for me whilst being a good movie in its own right. What came after is where the problems started.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I loved TFA, but TLJ is the one i admire the most looking back on it. Rian really tried to do something different and not retread old ground. Unfortunately, TROS did just that.