The Rise of Skywalker General Star Wars Episode IX News/Speculation Thread - Part 1

[Fincher]

I think how much heart a movie has will depend on who you ask and what speaks to them, and by the same token people will have different ideas about how true the sequels are to the originals depending on how much they valued different aspects of the originals. The Last Jedi left me cold in general, so whatever Rian intended, there wasn't much heart there for me in any way that mattered, and it almost never made me feel like I was watching Star Wars. The Force Awakens definitely had more emotion and more spark to me.

 

[Sian]

And at the end of the day....we all have our own opinions.
I see Kylo Ren as a damaged, broken abuse victim. Others see him as a murdering tyrant.
Some loved TLJ. Others hated it.

We're entitled to what we like and dislike but no one has the right to troll others for having a different opinion. It's especially unfair to accuse someone as a racist for liking a white character more than a black one. It's the CHARACTER not the ethnicity.

 

[Sian]

To me the ST are essentially homages. Not that it's an entirely bad thing.

Star Wars itself was an homage to pulp science fantasy, saturday morning serials and ancient mythology. The thing was it combined those influences into something that felt original and elevated.

By the time we get to the ST, Star Wars is riffing on itself. It's just a different thing. I can appreciate that TLJ maybe came the closest to capturing the spirit of the originals, while TFA and TROS feel a bit more superficial in their homage, but even TLJ cannot escape the fact that it's largely a homage. Even in the choice to subvert expectations wherever it could, it's still coming from a place of what feels like intense self-awareness of being the middle chapter in a Star Wars trilogy. Not that I blame Johnson for taking that into consideration.

My point is that sometimes you just can't recapture lightning in a bottle. The PT, to its credit, didn't really try and just tried to be its own thing. The ST, from its very inception, was trying to recapture the OT. For better and for worse.

The more I look back, the more the ST to me was Disney's way of getting rid of Lucas's legacy family, and replacing them with their own characters. Or character.
They gave Luke, Han and Leia a single heir, villainised him then killed him off all to save their precious heroine. And unfortunately their heroine ....is a cliche.
Daisy Ridley deserved far better than Rey. Her character was overpowered and adored to the point of ridiculousness. As another fan pointed out to me she was essentially the entire OT characters rolled into one.
Han - pilot.
Leia - princess
Luke - Jedi
Chewie - mechanic and pilot.

Rey is an ace pilot, ace mechanic, powerful Jedi and also, as Palpatine's heir, a princess. As a result no one else was needed, and every other character underwritten, apart from Kylo Ren. And look what they did with him.

 

[Snow Queen]

 

[Spider-Fan83]

noticed KOTOR (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic) has been trending lately/ an been watching a lot of first time playthroughs on twitch it's been years since I've played this game... but with seeing the story play out from a fresh POV... after seeing, ROS

there is an interesting compare that can be made...

their both a story of...

Spoiler: for those who haven't played

a young female Jedi prodigy Rey/Bastila who develops a force bond with a formal Sith lord- Kylo Ren/Revan, an uses clue's from their shared versions to track down pieces of a map to lead them to the base of the new Sith Lord- Malak/Emperor
she is helped along the way by a republic/rebel pilot- Poe/Carth, a Wookie- Chewy/Zalbar, an older Jedi(who spent a decade alone in exile)- Luke/Jolee Bindo, Rose/Mission, an of course the droids BB8/T3, C-3PO/HK-47(yes, a bit of a stretch) but there both gold and was previously owned by a Sith Lord (and HK was original bought in the game to be a translation droid) even if he had other functions that C-3 would/could never do... lol

gained much like the movie itself my theory doesn't leave much for Finn to do

and leaves out Game Companions like Juhani an Canderous, but still

Spoiler: Spoiler with-in the Spoiler

it's notable that in the source lure(an certain playthroughs as a Male character) Bastila and Revan also become lovers / much like Rey/Kylo

if you think about it the movie did kinda play out like a videogame plot

and that's my rant, thanks for reading.. you can now go back too doing whatever you were doing lol

 

[fan4stic]

oh yeah, absolutely. I honestly can't think of any redeeming qualities of a person like that.

They are the main reason my approach to Star Wars is that while I still love Star Wars, I don't grow attached to it anymore. It's kinda hard to explain, but it's made it so that those peoples toxic attitudes have no effect on me.

You can't think of any redeeming qualities in a person who hates a movie and vocalizes it, even there? Really? Come on.

 

[Detective Conan]

 

[Sian]

Talking of Anakin...
JJ Abrams removed Anakin Skywalker references from final cut of Star Wars: The Force Awakens

 

[Gothamsknight]

You can't think of any redeeming qualities in a person who hates a movie and vocalizes it, even there? Really? Come on.

Very late reply, I apologize, but I mean the toxic people who can't let it go. These people have let Star Wars run their lives and they spend all day tearing down anything they dislike and crapping on those that may enjoy it. So no, I don't. If people can make their life mission to ruin something for someone else, and try to make profit off of it, they are a ****** human being, like all the clickbait youtubers out there. It's a movie, and to make it anything more than that is pathetic. They got Mandalorian, they got their Luke Skywalker fight scene, which I loved too btw, and they made it so that all the ST actors are done with Star Wars and most likely resent it. So they have nothing to complain about.

 

[Sian]

I loved TLJ, but I've gotten flak for it. I've also gotten a lot of flak for being a 'reylo' shipper, from people who've accused me of supporting the abuse of women and also have been accused of racism for not shipping Rey with Finn.
I've come to the conclusion that a lot of SW fans are pretty unpleasant people, which saddens me as I've loved the franchise for forty two years but I've had to quit two forums because of the hatred I've got there - the former was mostly because I have never hit it off with one poster who later became a moderator, but the other was because every time I defended my favourite character, Kylo Ren, I got hate for it.
The plain fact is, despite all of us having the right to like and dislike a work of fiction, and fictional characters, many people take a venomous hatred towards others whose tastes differ. When I was a kid I remember how at school I - and a lot of other kids - were jeered at and bullied because we liked things other kids hated, and vice versa. You weren't 'cool' if you didn't like - insert whatever popular tv show was doing the rounds at the time.
Thing is...none of us on these forums are kids. Many, like myself, are middle aged people. I'll never forget mentioning that Leia and Han were too busy with their own lives to pay their troubled son the attention he needed and got a furious response from someone who accused me of insulting 'women who have careers'.
This despite both Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher, both parents, were quite fine with their characters being depicted as not quite 'stellar' parents.

I wish that we were not judged as people by the FICTIONAL characters we like, the FICTIONAL romances we 'ship' and were simply allowed the freedom to 'fantasise' as we wish. But apparently, not in today's environment.

 

[TheVileOne]

Talking of Anakin...
JJ Abrams removed Anakin Skywalker references from final cut of Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Fake news clickbait from a five-year old Reddit post.

 

[Sian]

TBH...I don't know what to believe these days. Pretty sure that JJ wanted to replace the OT characters with his own anyway; TROS was that made real.

 

[Drizzle]

TBH...I don't know what to believe these days. Pretty sure that JJ wanted to replace the OT characters with his own anyway; TROS was that made real.

He also wanted to distance The Force Awakens from the prequels as much as possible. Ironically, the prequels have only been looked at more favorably since then thanks to both The Clone Wars and the kids who grew up with that trilogy becoming meme-happy adults.

 

[Sian]

I have the impression he likes to erase 'classic' films and tv with his own stuff.

 

[Drizzle]

I have the impression he likes to erase 'classic' films and tv with his own stuff.

I don't think he wanted to erase anything, he just likes having his Abrams stink all over it. But I didn't really get that vibe with The Rise of Skywalker. It's as if Abrams was on autopilot for that one because he never wanted to direct it in the first place, which I don't really blame him considering how much of a mess the production of TROS turned out to be.

 

[Sian]

The 'reylo' kiss was all Disney; Abrams didn't want it, I think Disney included it because they knew Ben's fate would upset a lot of his fans - it did me. Ironically I am no longer a 'reylo' because TROS turned Rey into exactly the sort of sanctimonious self righteous heroine I have always loathed. She was more like Chris Nolan's irritating heroine Rachel Dawes.
Abrams had a scene in TFA where Kylo finds the Falcon on Starkiller and goes aboard cut - it was a genuinely sad little scene and I am positive he cut it because it made his villain look too sympathetic.
He also was against the scene where Han strokes Ben face minutes after he stabbed him, but apparently Ford pushed for it, and others liked it so he left it in.
I am now absolutely positive Abrams wanted the entire Skywalker clan gone - yes, Rian Johnson killed off Luke, but he could always come back as a FG. Abrams stated all along that Ben Solo was meant to die. He wanted all the original heroes gone, but it's both petty and as one youtube reviewer said 'almost vengeful' .
He killed off the last real Skywalker so he could replace the first family of the saga with Rey the Magnificent and two forgettable male characters who could have been great but whose function was to follow Rey around shouting her name or complimenting her on how magnificent she really was. Abrams wanted HIS characters to replace Lucas's - just as how with the Star Trek franchise he 'killed off' the original crew of the Enterprise to replace them with HIS versions of them. The guy is a cinematic wrecking ball.

 

[Drizzle]

I didn't see it as replacing characters considering each trilogy has its three main protagonists: Anakin, Obi-Wan and Padme for the prequels, Luke, Han and Leia for the OT and Rey, Finn and Poe for the sequel trilogy (though I'd argue that Han in VII and Luke in VIII are given more to do than Poe in those films). I also don't think the original plan was for Leia to die at all, at least it wasn't in Trevorrow's original script. I believe they were unfortunately forced into that given Carrie Fisher's passing. As for Ben Solo, I knew he wasn't going to survive the trilogy when I saw The Force Awakens, but I also predicted he'd sacrifice himself.

 

[fan4stic]

TROS turned Rey into exactly the sort of sanctimonious self righteous heroine I have always loathed. She was more like Chris Nolan's irritating heroine Rachel Dawes.

Cause a woman having a moral stance, to a man, is sanctimonious and self righteous? Being against a murderer and member of an organization that blows up planets doesn't have to make someone those things.

I am now absolutely positive Abrams wanted the entire Skywalker clan gone - yes, Rian Johnson killed off Luke, but he could always come back as a FG. Abrams stated all along that Ben Solo was meant to die. He wanted all the original heroes gone, but it's both petty and as one youtube reviewer said 'almost vengeful' .

Ben Solo isn't one of the original heroes.

As far as we know, Abrams isn't the one who killed off Luke, and isn't the reason, Leia had such a limited capacity, as a character. Luke died on Rian Johnson's watch.

If the information about the Duel Of The Fates script is accurate, Kylo died there, as well, I think with even less build up than The Rise Of Skywalker has. Why pin that on JJ Abrams?

He killed off the last real Skywalker so he could replace the first family of the saga with Rey the Magnificent and two forgettable male characters who could have been great but whose function was to follow Rey around shouting her name or complimenting her on how magnificent she really was. Abrams wanted HIS characters to replace Lucas's - just as how with the Star Trek franchise he 'killed off' the original crew of the Enterprise to replace them with HIS versions of them. The guy is a cinematic wrecking ball.

Last real Skywalker? Aren't bloodlines supposed to not matter?

I like Poe and Finn more than anything Kylo offers, before his turn.

This despite both Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher, both parents, were quite fine with their characters being depicted as not quite 'stellar' parents.

None of that was in the movies.

 

[Fincher]

If the information about the Duel Of The Fates script is accurate, Kylo died there, as well, I think with even less build up than The Rise Of Skywalker has. Why pin that on JJ Abrams?

Certainly with less effort to make him sympathetic.

I haven't seen the Duel of the Fates script challenged, but at any rate it's believable as something Trevorrow would have come up with. The Rey/Poe stuff was Jurassic World all over again.

 

[Sian]

Cause a woman having a moral stance, to a man, is sanctimonious and self righteous? Being against a murderer and member of an organization that blows up planets doesn't have to make someone those things.Ben Solo isn't one of the original heroes.

As far as we know, Abrams isn't the one who killed off Luke, and isn't the reason, Leia had such a limited capacity, as a character. Luke died on Rian Johnson's watch.

If the information about the Duel Of The Fates script is accurate, Kylo died there, as well, I think with even less build up than The Rise Of Skywalker has. Why pin that on JJ Abrams?Last real Skywalker? Aren't bloodlines supposed to not matter?

I like Poe and Finn more than anything Kylo offers, before his turn.None of that was in the movies.

No, Ben Solo wasn't an 'original', but he was the last of the family line. Star Wars was about family...Lucas said the first six films were really Anakin's story.

I'm not saying a woman having a 'moral stance is sanctimonious'....I'm saying Rey is sanctimonious. Her character is supposed to be the 'perfect Jedi' yet the Jedi use the Force for 'knowledge and defense, never attack.' Rey is violent, aggressive and almost feral - fine with someone with her background but not the qualities demanded of a Jedi. Yoda berated Luke for having 'too much anger' yet apart from Luke showing some concern over Rey being 'drawn to darkness' she never really gets tested, the way Luke was tested. It's one of the reasons I myself suspected she wouldn't end up as a Jedi, or if so, some version of the 'grey Jedi'.

I'm also genuinely baffled by her 'immediate' loyalty to the Resistance. She barely knew them, for crying out loud. Luke joined the Rebellion in ANH because the Empire murdered his aunt and uncle. He also, although it was cut from the finished film, had a friend, Biggs Darklighter, who chose to join them. Rey was all over them post TFA despite the fact that they would quite happily blown her up along with Starkiller - her loyalty should have been towards Finn, rather than the Resistance, as he was the one who wanted to save her.
It was as if Abrams et al decided; 'here is our heroine, a perfect example of modern goodness' ....and that's that. Rey was never truly written well at the start, and completely lacked the beautiful character development Luke had in the OT, where he started out as a naive youth, matured into a man and took the final step of his maturity into a Jedi. Rey didn't change much at all. Nor did becoming a Jedi seem very hard for her. For example, Luke wasn't seen using a Jedi mind trick until ROTJ. Rey used one and with ease at the end of TFA.

I think that her creators thought all they needed to win audiences was a Jedi who happened to be a woman, that being female was novelty enough. Which is a shame as the character had plenty of potential and a likeable, gifted young actress playing her. But the opportunity was wasted because they turned her into a symbol, rather than a real person.

 

[fan4stic]

No, Ben Solo wasn't an 'original', but he was the last of the family line. Star Wars was about family...Lucas said the first six films were really Anakin's story.

But wasn't a point about TLJ is bloodlines not mattering? Why does Ben matter now? Why should he? Why should I deem a character important, not based on their actions or their characters, but on their bloodline, like that?

I'm not saying a woman having a 'moral stance is sanctimonious'....I'm saying Rey is sanctimonious. Her character is supposed to be the 'perfect Jedi' yet the Jedi use the Force for 'knowledge and defense, never attack.' Rey is violent, aggressive and almost feral - fine with someone with her background but not the qualities demanded of a Jedi. Yoda berated Luke for having 'too much anger' yet apart from Luke showing some concern over Rey being 'drawn to darkness' she never really gets tested, the way Luke was tested. It's one of the reasons I myself suspected she wouldn't end up as a Jedi, or if so, some version of the 'grey Jedi'.

You said Rachel Dawes was, as well. Rey is distinctly not almost feral. If she were almost feral, she'd still attack an opponent after they were down, which she's never done. Every time Rey defeats someone, she doesn't further attack. No one in the movies says she's a perfect jedi. Rey gives up and is ready to quit and has to be convinced not to.

I'm also genuinely baffled by her 'immediate' loyalty to the Resistance. She barely knew them, for crying out loud. Luke joined the Rebellion in ANH because the Empire murdered his aunt and uncle. He also, although it was cut from the finished film, had a friend, Biggs Darklighter, who chose to join them. Rey was all over them post TFA despite the fact that they would quite happily blown her up along with Starkiller - her loyalty should have been towards Finn, rather than the Resistance, as he was the one who wanted to save her.
It was as if Abrams et al decided; 'here is our heroine, a perfect example of modern goodness' ....and that's that. Rey was never truly written well at the start, and completely lacked the beautiful character development Luke had in the OT, where he started out as a naive youth, matured into a man and took the final step of his maturity into a Jedi. Rey didn't change much at all. Nor did becoming a Jedi seem very hard for her. For example, Luke wasn't seen using a Jedi mind trick until ROTJ. Rey used one and with ease at the end of TFA.

I think this is the majority of ST in a nutshell, basically, for the most part.

I think that her creators thought all they needed to win audiences was a Jedi who happened to be a woman, that being female was novelty enough. Which is a shame as the character had plenty of potential and a likeable, gifted young actress playing her. But the opportunity was wasted because they turned her into a symbol, rather than a real person.

I could suggest something similar for a lot of ST characters, Ben included. I think none of these characters have much meaning or depth.

 

[Sian]

But wasn't a point about TLJ is bloodlines not mattering? Why does Ben matter now? Why should he? Why should I deem a character important, not based on their actions or their characters, but on their bloodline, like that?

You said Rachel Dawes was, as well. Rey is distinctly not almost feral. If she were almost feral, she'd still attack an opponent after they were down, which she's never done. Every time Rey defeats someone, she doesn't further attack. No one in the movies says she's a perfect jedi. Rey gives up and is ready to quit and has to be convinced not to.I think this is the majority of ST in a nutshell, basically, for the most part.I could suggest something similar for a lot of ST characters, Ben included. I think none of these characters have much meaning or depth.

 

[fan4stic]

I would suggest that Kylo wasn't defeated, but distracted and she capitalized on it. After he was down, she didn't stab him again. I'm not arguing against the idea of her getting being aggressive in fighting. But not feral.

 

[Sian]

She did at the end of TFA as well..
Watch the fight in the forest scene. After Kylo offered to 'teach her the ways of the Force', she fights back and very quickly gets the upper hand. She thrashes him.
She knocks him down. She could easily have disarmed him and walked away. Instead she circles him like a predator - like Anakin with Obi Wan on Mustafa.
Rey WANTED to hurt him.
Before anyone says: 'Can you blame her - he hurt Finn!' may I just say I'm not talking about Rey's actions as a human being, but as a Jedi. And they use the Force for 'knowledge and defense' - never for attack.
That is actually why I originally liked her character. And why, sitting through TROS with my mouth hanging open, I honestly couldn't believe how they elevated her to some kind of goddess.

 

[fan4stic]

She did at the end of TFA as well..
Watch the fight in the forest scene. After Kylo offered to 'teach her the ways of the Force', she fights back and very quickly gets the upper hand. She thrashes him.
She knocks him down. She could easily have disarmed him and walked away. Instead she circles him like a predator - like Anakin with Obi Wan on Mustafa.
Rey WANTED to hurt him.
Before anyone says: 'Can you blame her - he hurt Finn!' may I just say I'm not talking about Rey's actions as a human being, but as a Jedi. And they use the Force for 'knowledge and defense' - never for attack.
That is actually why I originally liked her character. And why, sitting through TROS with my mouth hanging open, I honestly couldn't believe how they elevated her to some kind of goddess.

Where does circling him like a predator, equal being almost being feral? She doesn't attack him there and she is fighting someone who has hurt someone she cared about and murdered someone she cared about. Rey isn't even remotely trained as a jedi here.

They didn't elevate her, like that. TROS had her be weak and try to give up and be convinced otherwise.