Hawkeye Hawkeye General Discussion Thread

[Mysteryman]

Seems pretty crowded now with all these subplots going on.

Vincent could always show up in a post credit scene.

 

[Drizzle]

All True.
In Fact, The release of Shang Chi on Labor Day was the first time that particular holiday weekend had a major release in a long time.
Usually Labor Day, is where they dump the box office turkeys.

Absolutely. IIRC, the original release slate for this year was supposed to be Shang-Chi in February, Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness in May, No Way Home in July, and Thor: Love and Thunder in November. That's already more spread out than what we ended up getting in 2021 so there was more room in between film releases to fill the gaps with the Disney+ shows.

 

[sdgrandia86]

If I had to rank the D+ Marvel series so far it'd be

1.TFAWS
2. Hawkeye
3. Loki
4. WandaVision

They're all good and can't say any of them are bad, but something about the more grounded ones are piquing my interest more. Hawkeye has been great imo.

1. Wandavision is still my number one. It could have been perfect if it wasn't for some creative decisions towards the end but I loved the acting.

2 and 3. Tie between Hawkeye and TFATWS. Really enjoy the more grounded action and Bucky scene where he realizes he is no longer under the mind control was very powerful. Love. Love. Love Kate.

4. Loki. Loved Silvie and the concept but didn't find it very interesting in execution. Might have to rewatch.

Really enjoying this season for the most part. Happy to see Yelena back, I wonder if this tales place around the same time as the Black Widow post credit; perhaps a few days before. Perhaps Val, Kate's mom and Uncle are working on the same page, if so that would be easy to resolve.

I think we might see Echo realizing that Uncle was the one who sent his father by hiring a pre-Clint Barton Ronin and will lead to her show. His identity could be revealed towards the end of next episode or as a post credit. I can see a reveal similar to Thanos in the end of The Avengers.

As for the Rolex, I'm more curious as to its significance.

I just realized that the season finale will be 2 days before Christmas which is fitting with the timeliness of the show.

 

[TheVileOne]

As of now it definitely seems like more of a business decision than a creative one.

Watching Episode 4 last night I noticed two occasions where Yelena kept Kate breathing - once by snapping the cable to get her zip line moving toward the roof and a second time when she attached a safety line to her before punting her back off. She also avoids using the Widow's bite or even striking Kate. Her behavior kinda answers the question who called in the hit.

Spoiler

Ahhh...Eleanor?

In the words of Eddie Valiant:

"That's it! That's the connection!"

 

[Hannibal75]

I personally find Echo a more interesting character than Kate, whose stupidity and naivete are astonishing even for a young person.

I also agree that Hawkeye seems to have the same problem with Loki: too little jam spread on too much bread. There is no reason they shouldn't have been two hour+ movies other than the fact Disney didn't believe the characters were commercial enough.

 

[psylockolussus]

I personally find Echo a more interesting character than Kate, whose stupidity and naivete are astonishing even for a young person.

I also agree that Hawkeye seems to have the same problem with Loki: too little jam spread on too much bread. There is no reason they shouldn't have been two hour+ movies other than the fact Disney didn't believe the characters were commercial enough.

The thing is they could have been a straight to streaming film, but of course a series would have buzz and they could spread out new content with a series for weeks or months unlike a 2 hour movie.

I feel like this is going to be an ongoing problem for the future mcu shows. A bunch of Series that easily could have been trimmed to a 2 hour movie.

 

[zephyrinthesky]

Forget all this Fisk talk - we've only got two episodes left to get a "Lucky cam" scene from the comics

 

[Dr. Evil]

The thing is they could have been a straight to streaming film, but of course a series would have buzz and they could spread out new content with a series for weeks or months unlike a 2 hour movie.

I feel like this is going to be an ongoing problem for the future mcu shows. A bunch of Series that easily could have been trimmed to a 2 hour movie.

It's going to be really hard to have character development for 2 hours for newer characters, especially if they debut as secondary characters in movies. Disney+ is better for development of newer characters. If you had a Hawkeye movie, there wouldn't be any room for Kate Bishop, Maya Lopez or any new characters. Instead it would have been a two hour film about either Clint's early years at SHIELD or his years during the Blip as Ronin. One of the main criticisms about characters in the MCU movies was there wasn't enough character development for a lot of them and therefore many really good actors wasted in nothing roles. A lot of people think Idris Elba was wasted as Heimdall in the Thor movies, even after he got a lot of screen time in Thor: Ragnarok. With Disney+, they could if they wanted to, explore more of Heimdall before his death in Infinity War. Or Disney+ could go back to the Dr. Strange world and explore more with Mordo because Mordo would be yet another character who people will say "Marvel wasted the talents of Chiwetel Ejiofor" especially if Mordo doesn't last long in Multiverse of Madness. Disney+ MCU helps lessen the "Marvel wasted so and so actor" that has been one of the main criticisms of the MCU for years. It doesn't get rid of it, but it lessens that complaint.

 

[psylockolussus]

If only these shows aren't always stalling.

 

[DyeLorean]

For the most part, the character development in these shows are not that different from what the movies do, to be honest. They are not character-driven stories (with the possible exception of Wanda in WandaVision or, mostly, Falcon and Bucky -which is possibly my favorite show so far in terms of balancing character, action and moving things forward-).

I like the shows so far, there's nothing really bad about them whatsover, but one thing that bothers me is the length of the episodes: one episode is 52 minutes and the next one is like 27... that's terrible and it shows that they don't put the same effort in every one of them. The inconsistency week to week damages the quality, in my opinion.

 

[Dr. Evil]

For the most part, the character development in these shows are not that different from what the movies do, to be honest. They are not character-driven stories (with the possible exception of Wanda in WandaVision or, mostly, Falcon and Bucky -which is possibly my favorite show so far in terms of balancing character, action and moving things forward-).

I like the shows so far, there's nothing really bad about them whatsover, but one thing that bothers me is the length of the episodes: one episode is 52 minutes and the next one is like 27... that's terrible and it shows that they don't put the same effort in every one of them. The inconsistency week to week damages the quality, in my opinion.

Hopefully that changes really soon. I am a bit surprised nobody has called Marvel out on that whenever the shows were being promoted. The Netflix shows at least had consistency in regards to it's time limit, despite the filler episodes.

 

[metaphysician]

I think this is another time where people need to remember the difference between "plot" and "story". Scenes like the LARPers, or the Kate/Clint Christmas celebration, are not "stalling to delay the plot". Their purpose is to reveal the nature of Clint and Kate as characters, individually and how they relate to each other. Which is to say, they are *the whole reason why the show exists in the first place*. The plot, "missing Ronin gear falls into the wrong hands", exists for the purpose of setting up said story scenes, not the other way around.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I think this is another time where people need to remember the difference between "plot" and "story". Scenes like the LARPers, or the Kate/Clint Christmas celebration, are not "stalling to delay the plot". Their purpose is to reveal the nature of Clint and Kate as characters, individually and how they relate to each other. Which is to say, they are *the whole reason why the show exists in the first place*. The plot, "missing Ronin gear falls into the wrong hands", exists for the purpose of setting up said story scenes, not the other way around.

I don't mind the LARPers at all. Besides, one of them is a cop and it's about time we've seen other sides to various NYPD other than their day jobs for the most part.

 

[psylockolussus]

Hopefully that changes really soon. I am a bit surprised nobody has called Marvel out on that whenever the shows were being promoted. The Netflix shows at least had consistency in regards to it's time limit, despite the filler episodes.

I don't mind the time limit as long as the story doesn't drag, and it doesn't feel like they are saving the bigger moments/action for later episodes or the final minutes of the episode.

With NetfliX Marvel shows, I always checked the time stamp because most of it were just talking. I was always bored, and it was hard to pay attention.

Though Disney+ Marvel shows have plenty of filler moments despite the shorter run time / episode count, that if they were edited as a movie, a lot of the scenes would be deleted scenes as they are dragging/stalling the whole thing.

 

[Green Goblin]

I wonder if there will be an Easter egg of the Spideys identity getting out. Both NWH and this take place in NY around the similar time.

 

[Iceman]

I wonder if there will be an Easter egg of the Spideys identity getting out. Both NWH and this take place in NY around the similar time.

Cool idea to have one for that.

 

[Kev4000]

After Hawkeye head writer Jonathan Igla pushed for Yelena's return in the Disney+ series, Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige let him in on a secret: Black Widow's stinger would lead directly into the events of Hawkeye

There was a length of time where I wasn't supposed to share it with the rest of the writing staff. There were a handful of things like that, which was challenging. I did my best. I like to think that I'm an honest broker and if somebody tells me not to share something, even if I think, 'Well, the writing staff really needs to know this then I'm just going to trust their process'... I kept it under my hat for a while."

Similarly, Marvel didn't tell Black Widow screenwriter Eric Pearson what he was setting up when writing the post-credits tag between Yelena and Val at Natasha's grave.

"I had made the case to Kevin and Lou [D'Esposito] and Victoria [Alonso] that Yelena had a place in our story and this was the right place for her next chapter. So I think the scene was created to support that," Igla explained. "Obviously, the rest of the writing staff knew we were building pitches around her as soon as I got the thumbs up."

For his part, Pearson only knew he was siccing Yelena on a retired Clint Barton, the former Ronin, in the aftermath of Endgame. Val also appears briefly in Disney+ series The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, recruiting the disgraced US Agent (Wyatt Russell) for purposes that are yet to be revealed.

"They told me, 'and then at the end, this is the target.' And I was like, 'What does that mean?' They were like, 'Don't worry about it. You don't have to know that,'" "I was like, 'Who am I screwing over? Something is going on! I don't have an answer for this.' They were like, 'You don't need to. We are going to figure that out.' "I remember writing it and feeling super guilty. 'I hope whatever writer is working on this next chapter is going to be OK with what I've done to them.'"

I am sceptical that they resolve the Yelena/Clint arc with this messy communication between the teams.

 

[Marvolo]

I am sceptical that they resolve the Yelena/Clint arc with this messy communication between the teams.

Yeah sounds like Marvel has crawled too far up its own ass about spoilers.

This is probably my favorite of the Marvel shows. Only the Widow reveal has irked me. The idea of a Widow being thwarted by a half deaf worn out Clint and a 22 year old college girl is absurd. A Widow should have been able to kill them both without ever even making her presence known.

 

[Albright]

The widdow had the order to not kill Kate Bishop. That makes it more difficult than just killing two archers

 

[metaphysician]

Yeah sounds like Marvel has crawled too far up its own ass about spoilers.

This is probably my favorite of the Marvel shows. Only the Widow reveal has irked me. The idea of a Widow being thwarted by a half deaf worn out Clint and a 22 year old college girl is absurd. A Widow should have been able to kill them both without ever even making her presence known.

. . . why would you think that? The movie did a pretty good job of establishing that Yelena is nice and all, but she is not Natasha Romanov. None of the other Widows were. Whereas Clint Barton, tired out or not, is still the dude who Natasha could at best pull 50/50 against. Him plus a talented, if inexperienced, sidekick, should absolutely be something that Yelena is not going to overcome, not without cheating like mad.

 

[obredaan]

Yeah sounds like Marvel has crawled too far up its own ass about spoilers.

This is probably my favorite of the Marvel shows. Only the Widow reveal has irked me. The idea of a Widow being thwarted by a half deaf worn out Clint and a 22 year old college girl is absurd. A Widow should have been able to kill them both without ever even making her presence known.

That would make for a really boring show if a Widow just comes along and kills the main character without even making her presence known.

 

[Dr. Evil]

 

[Kev4000]

With Jack get his character poster already, I assume we dont see him in his Swordman dress here?

 

[Albright]

I hope we see him at least swordfighting….

 

[Dr. Evil]

I can see the last character posters being Yelena and Wilson Fisk, although Yelena's from Black Widow was pretty good as was Wilson's character poster from Daredevil Season Three. That's all that's left for the character posters, unless for some reasons they have ones for the LARPers, which could be possible since we had character posters for the various Loki variants.