Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Marvel's Agents of SHIELD 6x05 Promo "The Other Thing"

[tbg]

Since I didn't see a thread started:

 

[terry78]

Ha, that avengers theme was well timed.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

With the monolith connection it is all but certain that Sarge is after the killer of the Chronocom's world.

 

[Panacea]

I suspect that Fitz will end up being the unwitting creator that they're talking about. This stuff about him inventing time travel would also allow for them to fix the timeline issues with regard to Endgame if the showrunners knew in advance.

Out of curiosity, where would people rank the overall quality of this season compared with previous seasons so far?

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

I suspect that Fitz will end up being the unwitting creator that they're talking about. This stuff about him inventing time travel would also allow for them to fix the timeline issues with regard to Endgame if the showrunners knew in advance.

Out of curiosity, where would people rank the overall quality of this season compared with previous seasons so far?

It does come uncomfortably close to the MCU's greatest hero engineering a fix to time travel after brainstorming for a night. But I don't think that fixing the Infinity War conundrum, much less the Endgame fix is something season 6 will see. Maybe a retcon will come in season 7 since they did have a second time travel story in the can already.

 

[<(o_o)>]

So, Were the Tahiti flashbacks all in Mae's mind or was Sarge also having Tahiti flashbacks as Mae kicked his ass?

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

May was drugged, it was all her.

 

[Dark Raven]

How can Fitz invent time travel and then operate with different rules to Endgame? They're not consistent at all. Even last season doesn't fit with the Endgame rules.

With all this talk of Monoliths, I'm surprised they don't bring in the Living Monolith.

 

[Heretic]

How can Fitz invent time travel and then operate with different rules to Endgame? They're not consistent at all. Even last season doesn't fit with the Endgame rules.

With all this talk of Monoliths, I'm surprised they don't bring in the Living Monolith.

Endgame happened in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. This show doesn't. It's as simple as that.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

How can Fitz invent time travel and then operate with different rules to Endgame? They're not consistent at all. Even last season doesn't fit with the Endgame rules.

With all this talk of Monoliths, I'm surprised they don't bring in the Living Monolith.

Well they are still debating whether old Steve Rogers went through a loop like the Agents did in season 5 and the MCU has a single timeline, or is he in a new timeline with another Pym particle quantum realm travel to bring Sam a shield..

So far we have three different methods of time travel. A controller, the Sorcerer Supreme or Thanos using the time stone. Using Pym particles and going through the quantum realm with a Stark tech temporal positioning system. And via the monoliths with a possible Fitz tech solution to how it would work. Three different methods thus three ways to interact with the supernatural physical universe and that allows for at least three possible differences in outcome.

Besides we still don't know where Ghost Rider went to or have a certain knowledge of where Sarge and his team came from.

 

[Panacea]

Endgame happened in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. This show doesn't. It's as simple as that.

They both exist in the MCU.

 

[Heretic]

They both exist in the MCU.

Pretty sure that they said that this season takes place a year after Thanos invaded Earth, but that Thanos has not snapped half the universe out of existence. That is not...can not...be the MCU. It is, at best, in an alternate universe that is not the one that we have followed through the movies.

 

[Panacea]

Pretty sure that they said that this season takes place a year after Thanos invaded Earth, [...]

Nope. They've said that this is all pre-snap.

 

[Heretic]

Nope. They've said that this is all pre-snap.

That must be one mighty long battle in Wakanda then.

I refuse to believe the lie anymore. When the movies acknowledge that this stuff is happening in the same reality they are, then get back to me. Until then, it's just a really badly done pr job by a tv show that is desperate to hold on to the few viewers it has left.

 

[Panacea]

That must be one mighty long battle in Wakanda then.

I refuse to believe the lie anymore. When the movies acknowledge that this stuff is happening in the same reality they are, then get back to me. Until then, it's just a really badly done pr job by a tv show that is desperate to hold on to the few viewers it has left.

It was confirmed by Jeph Loeb at the behest of Disney, the company that actually decides what is in the MCU and what isn't. The prior season was obviously written under the assumption that it would be the show's last and with no prior knowledge of the plot of Endgame. The only options they had so late in the game were to either edit the episodes and retcon the season to take place after Endgame but bereft of any reference to the most incredibly event in human history, or to retcon the intended implications of some of the lines at the end of season five that were ostensibly referencing Infinity War. Well, either that of they knew what was happening, didn't want to step on Endgame's plot, and the time travel element being brought back into the season will fix the whole thing...

I understand the frustration with the lack of integration (the only trickle-up character from TV was Jarvis in Endgame I believe) but I don't see the point in arguing that that proves it's not canon. Disney have the final word on that and they've always said the same thing - it's all (very loosely) connected.

P.S. the ratings are actually trending upwards.

 

[Heretic]

That's cool that you are invested in the show enough to buy into the spin. I'm not. Given what is actually on screen...this is not the MCU.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

Pretty sure that they said that this season takes place a year after Thanos invaded Earth, but that Thanos has not snapped half the universe out of existence. That is not...can not...be the MCU. It is, at best, in an alternate universe that is not the one that we have followed through the movies.

One year after stopping Graviton in Chicago. SHIELD becomes heroes again and get government sanction as we enter the story with Daisy leading a Fitz rescue mission. To make it work you would have to accept that while the Confederation did think that Thanos was headed towards earth what was referenced at the end of season 5 was not the raid on New York to grab the time stone but something else that might be retconned in season 7 to fit the Infinity War/Endgame time shenanigans.

However given that the Sony deal might just blow up the single MCU next month anyway. Possibly no more single continuity following 23 movies were its all connected, all the time. Then unlike the access showed to connect to The Winter Soldier and The Age of Ultron they would making a second guess on how Far From Home plays out like they guessed and missed how Thanos would have attacked would fall under fool me twice.

 

[Panacea]

That's cool that you are invested in the show enough to buy into the spin. I'm not. Given what is actually on screen...this is not the MCU.

You seem confused. This has nothing to do with being invested in the show. The people who decide what content is canon to the MCU say that Agents of SHIELD and the rest of the Marvel TV shows (minus Legion and The Gifted) are canon to the MCU, so there's no rational reason to believe any differently. If the shows were not canon then Marvel Entertainment and Marvel Studios wouldn't have to work together to agree which characters can be debuted by the shows or get plot information to them ahead of time where possible, and they certainly wouldn't use a TV-only character like Jarvis from Agent Carter in their biggest ever movie.

The integration is lacking, but deliberately so. You can't have the tail wag the dog by allowing modest TV shows to dictate the direction that the movie story follows, and you can't alienate the bulk of the fandom by making the TV shows a prerequisite to enjoy the movies either. Could it be done more seamlessly? Absolutely, but so long as Feige has an aversion to any content not under his control that is unlikely to happen.

 

[Heretic]

You seem confused. This has nothing to do with being invested in the show. The people who decide what content is canon to the MCU say that Agents of SHIELD and the rest of the Marvel TV shows (minus Legion and The Gifted) are canon to the MCU, so there's no rational reason to believe any differently. If the shows were not canon then Marvel Entertainment and Marvel Studios wouldn't have to work together to agree which characters can be debuted by the shows or get plot information to them ahead of time where possible, and they certainly wouldn't use a TV-only character like Jarvis from Agent Carter in their biggest ever movie.

The integration is lacking, but deliberately so. You can't have the tail wag the dog by allowing modest TV shows to dictate the direction that the movie story follows, and you can't alienate the bulk of the fandom by making the TV shows a prerequisite to enjoy the movies either. Could it be done more seamlessly? Absolutely, but so long as Feige has an aversion to any content not under his control that is unlikely to happen.

Not true. DC has to get approval over which characters they can use on tv and those are seperate universes.

And Ming-Na Wen is apparently confused as well, since she is on record that the show is now separate from MCU continuity.

I get that the idea was to be the same. I get that tv has been trying to make that happen with no help from the movie division. But what is also clear...despite whatever the company line may be...is that they have now given up on that idea.

And...before you decide that it's impossible to integrate tv and movies, lets see how well Disney Plus does it. While I don't expect people's enjoyment of the films to depend on the shows, they are promising (once again...and it was a lie the first time) that there will be closer connection.

 

[Panacea]

Not true. DC has to get approval over which characters they can use on tv and those are seperate universes.

DC have to get approval for commercial reasons, it has nothing to do with preserving canon. They depict the same character in different continuities and with different actors all the time.

And Ming-Na Wen is apparently confused as well, since she is on record that the show is now separate from MCU continuity.

That's certainly the angle that the clickbait articles went with. The full quote was:

“So, the Snap hasn’t happened yet,” Wen confirmed. “I think at this point it’s safe to say that we have departed from following the [Marvel] Cinematic Universe in that sense, and are just telling our own stories and our own situations. All this is happening pre-Snap.”

I can't even tell from that that she's definitely claiming that Agents of SHIELD is not canon to the MCU, in fact I don't think she is, but if she is then yes - she's confused.

I get that the idea was to be the same. I get that tv has been trying to make that happen with no help from the movie division. But what is also clear...despite whatever the company line may be...is that they have now given up on that idea.

If they had given up on that idea then why would they make any kind of effort to make the canon compatible at all? Why did they change Nabiya Be's character from Tilda/Nightshade into "Linda" after they realised that Tilda was going to be in Luke Cage season two? Why did they do their best to edit Tina Minoru out of Doctor Strange because of Runaways? Why would they brief the TV showrunners on plot outlines for the movies ahead of time at all? It makes no sense that they would put these burdens on themselves if they didn't need to. I can't understand anyone taking these things into account, hearing from the horses mouth that it's canon, and then still claiming that it isn't.

 

[Dark Raven]

What if this series was set in the regular MCU from seasons 1-5? But then when the team were whisked away to the future, they actually came back either to an alternate timeline or to a parallel universe? In fact, maybe when they were taken to the future, the fact that the earth had been destroyed could've been in an alternate timeline/ parallel universe since it didn't happen for the rest of the MCU.

So they either never returned to their original timeline or when they were whisked away, they ended up in an alternate future and have been operating in that ever since.

 

[Zarex]

I think that Loeb and his crew are really, really trying to convince folks that Marvel Television shows are in the same continuity with the big screen MCU. But there are far too many reasons to suspect otherwise, including the lack of the Avengers tower (and direct shots of the Met Life building) in the Netflix shows and the complete disregard of the fish oil incident during the Sokovia Accords. And the snappening, which was sort of a big deal, being ignored on the small screen.

It was lovely to see Jarvis become the first crossover character, and it confirms (for me) that Agent Carter is part of the Cinematic MCU. AOS, though, has a loose (at best) connection to the movies. I consider it to be a different time line in which Coulson lived and SHIELD never truly went away. But other than a couple of comments the Netflix shows have zero connection to the MCU and directly contradict it by having Barack Obama as president in that reality. I could see at least some of those characters rebooted into the movies after the Netflix lock out ends.

Kevin Feige hisownself - the ONLY person who determines what is canon and what is not - has said that the Disney Plus shows will take place in "MCU Proper". TV shows outside of MCU Proper, including Cloak and Dagger and Runaways, are not part of the film continuity.

Disney+ Marvel Shows Will Be Set in the Past, Present and Future of the MCU

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

I can't help but chuckle that the initial "this isn't the MCU" post in this thread came from a poster named Heretic. Because the debate sounds like a Protestant v. Catholic fight over extra Biblical , you are not really Christian versus you don't have the fullness of faith and never really worshiped fights between their fundamentalist

 

[Panacea]

I think that Loeb and his crew are really, really trying to convince folks that Marvel Television shows are in the same continuity with the big screen MCU. But there are far too many reasons to suspect otherwise, including the lack of the Avengers tower (and direct shots of the Met Life building) in the Netflix shows and the complete disregard of the fish oil incident during the Sokovia Accords. And the snappening, which was sort of a big deal, being ignored on the small screen.

Then why have Markus & McFeely talked openly about how they considered using the Netflix Defenders characters when they were in the early stages of drafting the Infinity War and Endgame scripts? Why do they point to Kilgrave as one of their favourite MCU villains? There are actually loads of little MCU tie-ins in the Netflix MCU shows that don't need to be there unless they want to nod to the shows being in the MCU. There are admittedly errors too though.

Kevin Feige hisownself - the ONLY person who determines what is canon and what is not - has said that the Disney Plus shows will take place in "MCU Proper". TV shows outside of MCU Proper, including Cloak and Dagger and Runaways, are not part of the film continuity.

This decision is way above Feige's pay grade. If he had the power to completely detach the movies from the shows then he no doubt would have by now.

 

[Zarex]

Then why have Markus & McFeely talked openly about how they considered using the Netflix Defenders characters when they were in the early stages of drafting the Infinity War and Endgame scripts? Why do they point to Kilgrave as one of their favourite MCU villains? There are actually loads of little MCU tie-ins in the Netflix MCU shows that don't need to be there unless they want to nod to the shows being in the MCU. There are admittedly errors too though.

Talking about using the Netflix characters and then going ahead and doing it are two very different things. We've recently heard about Fox's plans for crossing over the FF and X-Men franchises. Plans don't mean jack.

This decision is way above Feige's pay grade. If he had the power to completely detach the movies from the shows then he no doubt would have by now.

What is or isn't part of the cinematic MCU is right in the sweet spot of Feige's role as studio president. I have no doubt it is his call and his call alone. And the detachment of the movies from the shows already took place way back in 2015 when Marvel Studios left Ike Perlmutter and Marvel Entertainment. The last MCU film character to appear on a live action Marvel TV show, Jaimie Alexander's Sif, appeared on AOS in the season before the split.