Sabretooth Conundrum

[EnDz0n3]

If... Wolverine has a memory wipe.. whats stopping Creed from having one? Sucks I know, but still.

Aw heck, let's just have freaking Magneto show up digitally younger as in X-3 and recruit him for some "Higher purpose."

I don't know. Whichever though -- no clones. For the love of all that is sacred in this world... no clones.

Not really sure i would be for the scene but if they really want a sabretooth recruitment scene, they could just have an over the shoulder shot of a young-Ian Mckellen looking guy from the back and they could have someone that sounds like Mckellen do the voice-work. There's plenty of those, just watch the cartoons for instance.

And yea i myself am against the clones idea too.

 

[Silverglade]

Here's my issue. Aren't they basically envisioning this work as the "Batman Begins" reboot of an X-Men character? I thought they were going for that approach.

If that is the case, they may be ignoring all the other X-Films entirely, though some elements in this might still fit if rationalized enough.

I might be wrong but this could also be "Wolverine: Year One" (a reboot)

But since it is still Fox Studios... yeah. Any thoughts on that point?

 

[Endeavor]

Thoughts on an X-Men reboot?..
I can't wait until FOX looses rights to all X-Men characters and Marvel gets to produce X-Men movies without having to answer to studio execs who aren't directly connected to the Marvel characters and therefore don't really 'get' them.
Aside that though I don't think Wolverine can be seen as a reboot. To me it looks like a clear-cut offshoot. They're just trying to prolong the franchise as long as they can.

 

[PTZ]

I think they should be two different characters.

Victor Creed= Dog Logan, who has the comic Sabretooth's personaltiy, cruelty and fighting ability.

Sabretooth= Magneto's thug who's only likeness to his comic counterpart is his name.

Can't Liev just = Victor Creed/Dog Logan/Sabertooth and totally wipe out Mane? They could keep the Yeti character, but just reshoot a few new scenes with him being recast as Liev and explain it as brain damage from the head cutting thing and he is "recovering" from it.

 

[Legion]

Can't Liev just = Victor Creed/Dog Logan/Sabertooth and totally wipe out Mane? They could keep the Yeti character, but just reshoot a few new scenes with him being recast as Liev and explain it as brain damage from the head cutting thing and he is "recovering" from it.

I see Sabretooth as a disappointing and forgettable character. If the general audience was asked what their most memorable moments from the X-trilogy were, I doubt Sabretooth would be in any of them.

So to build up Creed in origins as this great nemesis and then turn him into X1 Sabretooth to make a few comic fans happy doesn't make sense to me. Picture Stryker mutating or cloning and him being like "What do you want it to say?" "Sabretooth". Audience: "Who's Sabretooth?" "Oh, that lame hairy guy from that movie a decade ago that didn't do or say anything."

 

[Congo Jack]

Here's my issue. Aren't they basically envisioning this work as the "Batman Begins" reboot of an X-Men character? I thought they were going for that approach.

If that is the case, they may be ignoring all the other X-Films entirely, though some elements in this might still fit if rationalized enough.

I might be wrong but this could also be "Wolverine: Year One" (a reboot)

But since it is still Fox Studios... yeah. Any thoughts on that point?

There are certainly contradictions between this movie and the X-Men triloguy, but this is not a reboot. Jackman, Stryker being an army man, Jason Stryker all show this. I took Jackman's BATMAN BEGINS comment that he meant in terms of tone.

 

[BMM]

I'm not so sure audience members will be able to differentiate that well, I mean, think of how many people were confused in TDK when the Joker tells Batman the addresses of where Rachel and Dent are, and then we see Bats end up at Dent's spot even though he said he would go get Rachel. Lots of people were wondering if Batman changed his mind halfway through, even though it was pretty obvious that Joker had lied to Batman, it just wasn't specifically said on screen.

If audience members are unable to grasp a scenario as simple as the one featured in The Dark Knight, I would hate to think how confused they would be attempting to follow any of the above scenarios, which try to reconcile the behavior of a secondary character in a nine year old movie.

Of course, the other thing is, X1 has been so long ago that many people may not really remember Sabertooth that much, and won't even notice the difference in characters.

I agree.

I personally think that if they address the differences the child route is the most "plausible." It's not too out there to think that Creed had a son, and the son ended up being even more feral then he was.

I think the inclusion of any of the above scenarios is detrimental to the movie. I don’t think any of the explanations are particularly good. I think they’re convoluted, hokey, and unnecessary. It would be one thing if a brief explanation regarding Sabretooth is necessary to clarify potential confusion, but that isn’t the case. The only reason this is being discussed is because, as crazy as it sounds, a handful of people feel Schreiber’s interpretation of Sabretooth is sacrosanct and needs saving. I don’t want to sacrifice a potentially solid story for unnecessary clones or imposters or Sabretooth juniors to explain something that people don’t seem to care to see addressed.

 

[PTZ]

There are certainly contradictions between this movie and the X-Men triloguy, but this is not a reboot. Jackman, Stryker being an army man, Jason Stryker all show this. I took Jackman's BATMAN BEGINS comment that he meant in terms of tone.

Sorry to go a little OT, but Jason Stryker does not exist in the comics right?

 

[BMM]

Right. Stryker kills his son shortly after his birth.

 

[not_a_victim]

I think they should be two different characters.

Victor Creed= Dog Logan, who has the comic Sabretooth's personaltiy, cruelty and fighting ability.

Sabretooth= Magneto's thug who's only likeness to his comic counterpart is his name.

Well, now. There's and idea.
Pretty simple, especially for casual fans who won't associate the two movie lines...
The one wrench in the works will be if, like Logan, who seemingly picks "Wolverine" as his name, Creed is shown to pick "Sabertooth" as his.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Right. Stryker kills his son shortly after his birth.

Are they doing that in this movie? Or were you just referring to the comic?

 

[Peter McCabe]

Are they doing that in this movie? Or were you just referring to the comic?

Stryker will not kill Jason in the movie, I say that with as much certainty as I say tomorrow will be Wednesday.

 

[Legion]

He was referring to Reverend Stryker who murdered his mutant son that was born with a demonic appearance.

 

[Peter McCabe]

He was referring to Reverend Stryker who murdered his mutant son that was born with a demonic appearance.

"Reverend" Stryker???

there's a story I never read.

 

[Legion]

"Reverend" Stryker???

there's a story I never read.

It's called "God Loves, Man Kills", and X2 was loosely based off of it.

 

[PTZ]

Stryker will not kill Jason in the movie, I say that with as much certainty as I say tomorrow will be Wednesday.

Is he still going to be hooked up to that brain draining machine thingy? Because that was just messed up.

 

[BMM]

Are they doing that in this movie? Or were you just referring to the comic?

Sorry, I was referring to "God Loves, Man Kills."

 

[EnDz0n3]

Is he still going to be hooked up to that brain draining machine thingy? Because that was just messed up.

I think that was just a recent occurrence in the movie because in X2 Professor Xavier looked genuinely surprised when he first sees Jason hooked up to that machine, letting out a "My God William this is your son!"

 

[Infinity9999x]

I think the inclusion of any of the above scenarios is detrimental to the movie. I don’t think any of the explanations are particularly good. I think they’re convoluted, hokey, and unnecessary. It would be one thing if a brief explanation regarding Sabretooth is necessary to clarify potential confusion, but that isn’t the case. The only reason this is being discussed is because, as crazy as it sounds, a handful of people feel Schreiber’s interpretation of Sabretooth is sacrosanct and needs saving. I don’t want to sacrifice a potentially solid story for unnecessary clones or imposters or Sabretooth juniors to explain something that people don’t seem to care to see addressed.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

That is a good point. The idea that others have mentioned, never actually referring to Liev as Sabretooth but only Victor Creed, actually isn't that bad of one, because the only people who will notice or care is us. And even if they do call him Sabretooth, the general audience probably won't even remember that there was a guy in X1 called Sabretooth as well.

I think that was just a recent occurrence in the movie because in X2 Professor Xavier looked genuinely surprised when he first sees Jason hooked up to that machine, letting out a "My God William this is your son!"

Agreed. That machine had to be fairly recent, because it was how Stryker was controlling Deathstrike and Nightcrawler. If he had had the machine earlier he would have been doing things like that a while ago.

 

[Daredevil_2003]

Ignore it. X1 was almost ten years ago and Sabertooth in that movie had such a small and pointless part and never appeared again. I dont even know why people are making this an issue. We're getting (hopefully) a proper version of the character in what looks to be a better film than any of the previous X-efforts. I'm just happy with that.

 

[conan69]

uhhhh the characters been recasted and a much younger version simply has shorter hair.

Whats the problem?



Sabertooth isnt a character Ive ever really cared for much, but Liev and Danny Hustons Stryker are the 2 things of interest to me with what Ive seen.

 

[Infinity9999x]

uhhhh the characters been recasted and a much younger version simply has shorter hair.

Whats the problem?



Sabertooth isnt a character Ive ever really cared for much, but Liev and Danny Hustons Stryker are the 2 things of interest to me with what Ive seen.

You didn't watch X1 did you?

Sabretooth in that movie was 7+ feet, his hair was blonde, he had jet black eyes, he appeared slow and cumbersome, and he barely spoke.

This Sabretooth is obviously going to be much closer to the comics, much shorter, and with a completely different personality and physical look. They're basically two completely different characters. The thread is about speculating on how Marvel will address that, if they choose to at all.

Now, after thinking about it for a while, I think not talking about it at all might be the best way to go. The general public won't remember the Sabretooth character from X1, and I doubt anyone but us will notice that they were supposed to be the same person.

 

[Silverglade]

It's amazing... X-Men The Movie was a decade ago. I am getting old.

 

[conan69]

Yes I saw the first Xmen movie.

I just dont think its a big deal.

 

[Endeavor]

I've said before that I don't care if they even try to explain the character differences with X1, but there are many ways you can come up with a creative and reasonable explanation for them. If not the physical differences then for sure the ones in the persona. (just to be clear, I don't think "clone" "2ndary mutation" or even having it be a different character are either creative or reasonable).
I was thinking about this recently and I remember a plot in the comics where Sabes was lobotomized by Logan and for a short time he was walking around like a wounded puppy, in fact he was almost as dumb as he appeared to be in X1...
If something similar happens towards the end of Wolverine where Logan ends up making shish kabob out of Victor's brain then that could explain:
1- Why he doesn't recognize Logan in X1
2- Why in that movie he had less personality than a door knob

Just food for thought. I could see Wolverine popping claws in Vic's skull and leaving him for dead and then having Mags and Mystique find him, pick him up make him part of their crew (like it's being rumored in another thread).