Sabretooth Conundrum

[spidey-dude]

^^^ Thats what I was going for with my post earlier ^^^

also I seem to rememebr sabes looking like he kinda knew logan maybe but wasnt sure how or why (havnt seen x1 for a while though) which would fit

 

[Infinity9999x]

I've said before that I don't care if they even try to explain the character differences with X1, but there are many ways you can come up with a creative and reasonable explanation for them. If not the physical differences then for sure the ones in the persona. (just to be clear, I don't think "clone" "2ndary mutation" or even having it be a different character are either creative or reasonable).
I was thinking about this recently and I remember a plot in the comics where Sabes was lobotomized by Logan and for a short time he was walking around like a wounded puppy, in fact he was almost as dumb as he appeared to be in X1...
If something similar happens towards the end of Wolverine where Logan ends up making shish kabob out of Victor's brain then that could explain:
1- Why he doesn't recognize Logan in X1
2- Why in that movie he had less personality than a door knob

Just food for thought. I could see Wolverine popping claws in Vic's skull and leaving him for dead and then having Mags and Mystique find him, pick him up make him part of their crew (like it's being rumored in another thread).

That's not a bad idea, though it doesn't really explain the drastic visual changes.

However, lately I'm leaning more and more towards just ignoring Sabes in X1. The general public won't even make the connection most likely, since it's been almost a decade, and I just don't like the idea of Liev's character turning into Mane's, because I hate the purposeful worsening of a character. When something bad happens in the comics, more often then not, they simply ignore it, and that's not looking too bad to me right now.

However, the lobotomy idea is probably one of the best ideas for having a sense of continuity, because then you could say that Liev eventually healed back to normal, and would return to his normal personality if they wanted to do a Wolveirne movie set after the X-series.

 

[Endeavor]

That's not a bad idea, though it doesn't really explain the drastic visual changes.
...
However, the lobotomy idea is probably one of the best ideas for having a sense of continuity, because then you could say that Liev eventually healed back to normal, and would return to his normal personality if they wanted to do a Wolveirne movie set after the X-series.

You're right it wouldn't and I think I mentioned something to that effect earlier. The hair would not be an issue but the difference in size would. If a connection is formally established in this new movie to the character in X1 then the audience will obviously have to suspend their disbelief and just accept the new reality. But like I said before, I for one would not have any problem with it, and I don't think too many people would be up in arms about the continuity discrepancy.

 

[chaseter]

I either want full continuity or just make this film a totally new film with no forced connections to any of the other movies. When you have to pay service to prior, or in this case future, films then that can stump some of the creative processes that go on because they then have to say well we must get from point A to point B no matter what for continuity.

 

[J.Howlett]

The Empire Magazine article pretty much answered this thread. Hood said they never call him Sabertooth in this film. He's simply Victor Creed.

All it is is a combination of "Dog" from the Origin graphic novel and Victor Creed. Having them be two separate entities makes since if you're looking for continuity between this film and X-Men.

Besides, X-Men and X2 showed a few times of how different characters can have similar powers. The same applies here when justifying Liev's character and Tyler's character in X-Men.

To me, this is the best explanation.

 

[Infinity9999x]

The Empire Magazine article pretty much answered this thread. Hood said they never call him Sabertooth in this film. He's simply Victor Creed.

All it is is a combination of "Dog" from the Origin graphic novel and Victor Creed. Having them be two separate entities makes since if you're looking for continuity between this film and X-Men.

Besides, X-Men and X2 showed a few times of how different characters can have similar powers. The same applies here when justifying Liev's character and Tyler's character in X-Men.

To me, this is the best explanation.

That's confirmed? Because in the screencrave report it stats

You’re listed as two different characters in the film Victor Creed and Sabertooth what is that about?

[Evil Laugh] Victor Creed is Sabertooth. I just wanted everyone to know I got a name.

This was over in the Liev Scrhieber speaks thread. So it seems that he'll be called both names at some point.

 

[J.Howlett]

Interesting, considering The Empire Magazine article says otherwise...or it says, he doesn't go by Sabertooth in the film. He only goes by Victor Creed.

 

[EnDz0n3]

So they've already confirmed that the Dog character from the Origin comic book grows up to become Sabretooth?

 

[J.Howlett]

I wouldn't say confirmed but if this story starts out with Logan as a child, with him avenge the death of his father and the character they're using is Victor Creed, then it makes sense that they've obviously combined the two characters for this movie version of Logan's origins....

 

[cerealkiller182]

I say ignore, but im willing to bet they just say he kept evolving or something unless they have actual plans for Sabertooth in the future.

 

[Legion]

I wouldn't consider this concrete but on my movie trailer on demand channel the description for Wolverine goes something like this:

"Wolverine lives a mutant life, seeks revenge against Victor Creed (who will eventually become Sabretooth) for the death of his girl friend, and ultimately ends up going through the mutant Weapon X program."

 

[Infinity9999x]

I wouldn't consider this concrete but on my movie trailer on demand channel the description for Wolverine goes something like this:

"Wolverine lives a mutant life, seeks revenge against Victor Creed (who will eventually become Sabretooth) for the death of his girl friend, and ultimately ends up going through the mutant Weapon X program."

Hmm, considering this, and the conflicting reports that J.Howlett read, I'm not really sure what they're planning. It could be that the Empire Magazine simply worded it strange. He might never go by Sabretooth, but that doesn't mean he might not get called that, he could get called Sabretooth at the end of the movie or something.

and Cerealkiller, I'm hoping they do have plans for him in the future. I know I'd like to see Sabretooth in at least one more Wolverine movie, maybe after they do the Japanese storyline.

 

[Venom'sDad]

Wasn't sure where to put this, contains some spoilers on the story, obviously. Probably already known. Anyway....

 

[Ziggyman]

Me no know!

 

[Ratcrawler]

I might be alone, but I actually really liked Tyler's Sabretooth. I vote changes.

Now does anybody wanna explain why MJ wanted to be an actress in the first two sPider-Man films, successfully became one and was reduced to a singing waitress at a jazz club in SM3 because all of a sudden she had her heart set on being a singer?

 

[Infinity9999x]

I might be alone, but I actually really liked Tyler's Sabretooth. I vote changes.

Now does anybody wanna explain why MJ wanted to be an actress in the first two sPider-Man films, successfully became one and was reduced to a singing waitress at a jazz club in SM3 because all of a sudden she had her heart set on being a singer?

Yes, you probably are alone.

And though it's completely unrelated, MJ successfully got a gig in what looked like a broadway version of The Importance of Being Ernest. However, just because she got in one play doesn't mean her career skyrocketed. She obviously had trouble finding work, and, after being kicked off the musical she was in in SM3, she had to resort to finding work at a bar as a singing waitress. She's a struggling actor.

But, MJ is another prime example of how a character was completley ruined in a movie, much like Sabretooth in X1.

 

[Ratcrawler]

Exactly. Struggling "actress". I just don't know where the emphasis on singing came from. She got fired from the play because her singing voice didn't carry past the front row, so why not go back to non-musicals?

But yeah, I enjoyed X1's Sabes because, even though he got the silent henchman treatment, I thought he embodied animalistic ferocity pretty well. Sure, maybe it was more Wildchild on steroids or Tarzan on crack, but as far as "human attack-dog" goes, he was pretty badass. I'd rather have him in my corner than, say, Jaws from the James Bond films.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Sabretooth from X-men didn't bother me as much as some other people on this board apparently are, who are very quick to forget about that character. He served his purpose in that movie.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What is all this complaining about Sabertooth in X1? He was fantastic. An animal that looked like he could actually hurt you. I think Liev is a good actor but his look is that of a middle aged suburban accountant with a van and a couple of kids.

 

[TNC9852002]

Sabretooth from X-men didn't bother me as much as some other people on this board apparently are, who are very quick to forget about that character. He served his purpose in that movie.

I agree. He was barely a supporting character.

Nah, but seriously, when the movie came out in 2000, I think me and my friends were also talking about Sabretooth. Not so much about the character, but about him not knowing Wolverine. Over time, I realized that there just wasn't enough time to spend and devote on such a relationship and that I understood that Sabretooth's role in the movie was simply the muscleheaded inept henchman that he has been before and needed to be for the movie's story.

Magneto was the central antagonist in the movie and he needed to stay in charge both physically and mentally. If Sabretooth was given too much character and lines of dialogue and interaction, the movie would've been less about X-Men, Magneto, and Wolverine and Rogue...etc, but it would've been more about the villains, so there had to be a judgment call on how the villains needed to be portrayed. It felt like a lot more was there, but they decided that they needed to cut it down until all they could use was the notion of the dog tags, which was enough for me. Everything else was parried into Wolverine's amnesiac state.

-TNC

 

[Legion]

I agree. He was barely a supporting character.

Nah, but seriously, when the movie came out in 2000, I think me and my friends were also talking about Sabretooth. Not so much about the character, but about him not knowing Wolverine. Over time, I realized that there just wasn't enough time to spend and devote on such a relationship and that I understood that Sabretooth's role in the movie was simply the muscleheaded inept henchman that he has been before and needed to be for the movie's story.

Magneto was the central antagonist in the movie and he needed to stay in charge both physically and mentally. If Sabretooth was given too much character and lines of dialogue and interaction, the movie would've been less about X-Men, Magneto, and Wolverine and Rogue...etc, but it would've been more about the villains, so there had to be a judgment call on how the villains needed to be portrayed. It felt like a lot more was there, but they decided that they needed to cut it down until all they could use was the notion of the dog tags, which was enough for me. Everything else was parried into Wolverine's amnesiac state.

-TNC

Umm all they needed was a couple of lines of dialogue or extra flashback to establish that Wolverine and Sabretooth hated each other, which would have only amounted to a couple of extra minutes to the film ,if even. Hell I would have been happen if Sabretooth said anything to Wolverine at all. I mean if they had talked or taunted each other while fighting it wouldn't have even added to the run time of the movie.

 

[TNC9852002]

Nah, but that's where you end up with something a little "uncohesive" and a little bit sloppy in terms of structuring a movie.

I mean, all of that still takes a lot of time out the movie and you have to establish a lot more behind this and actually follow through with it, especially where Wolverine is a central character. If you don't go all the way, then something like this would've only made sense to X-Men fans and if they went through all of the trouble of doing something like that, they would've HAD to do some kind of flashback thing. Of course, then the movie would've been even MORE about Wolverine than anyone else then that's what they used in X2, but still, that was left over when Sabretooth was still being considered to re-appear in X2, but he was somewhat replaced by Deathstrike..

and Sabretooth's talking or taunting isn't what I'm talking about here. But, I think it was overall a creative decision-making issue in those kinds of areas. Some people are for a lot of quips and jabbering during these comic book movie kinds of fights, some are opposed to them, but that's the main difference between movies and the comic book pages, I suppose. You realize how sometimes things like that don't always work so well. I mean, Sabretooth and Wolverine were fighting maybe only once or twice in the movie. The beginning, maybe they could've talked, but in the ending at the SoL, that climax was so much more than just the two of them fighting each other that it would've taken away from the tension in that scene.

Well, I could go on here.

My point is, I'm not totally satisfied, but I've come to understand why they made Sabretooth the way that they did and I think it works for the better in making a smoother, balanced, and cohesive ensemble FILM, but not necessarily the greatest single portrayal of the character.

-TNC

 

[Infinity9999x]

TNC---

I actually agree with you, in X1 Sabretooth shouldn't have been given a bigger role. It would have taken too much away from the central plot. The biggest problem is this: He shouldn't have been in the movie.

Sabretooth is not the typical thug like character. He does serve that purpose at points, but the times the character works best, and was intended to be written, is as a solo man. He's a lone wolf, unstable type villain, not someone who would want to work with Magneto, nor someone Magneto would want around, because he's simply too unstable.

There are multiple other villains they could have included in X1 instead of Sabretooth that fit the thug role much better. Blob, Juggernaut, heck you could even have Avalanche, whomever, the fact is, it shouldn't have been Sabretooth.

To make Sabretooth fit into that movie, they completely changed, and worsened his characterization and relationship to Wolverine. The relationship they had in X1 was barely noticeable, and served no plot purpose at all. The general audience didn't really catch it, only the fans did, and it was simply not needed. They shouldnt' have forced Sabretooth in the movie, because it hurt his character.

What is all this complaining about Sabertooth in X1? He was fantastic. An animal that looked like he could actually hurt you. I think Liev is a good actor but his look is that of a middle aged suburban accountant with a van and a couple of kids.

His look was all right, but the biggest problem is that in terms of the most important representation of him, his personality, Sabretooth was completely butchered. He had no personality, he was a brainless thug who let Magneto order him around. That's not Sabretooth. Sabretooth is a sick sadist who enjoys causing others pain, most notably Wolverine. He loves to torture Wolverine, attack him, kill his loved ones, and taunt him with hints about his past. We saw none of that, in fact, we didn't see much at all besides a man who resembled him in terms of comic adaptation. But honestly, looks are secondary to me, I'd much rather have the looks be botched and get the personality right (TDK's Joker) then the reverse (Sabretooth).

 

[Figs]

What is all this complaining about Sabertooth in X1? He was fantastic. An animal that looked like he could actually hurt you. I think Liev is a good actor but his look is that of a middle aged suburban accountant with a van and a couple of kids.

Personally I didn't mind Tyler's version in X1 but I'm liking what I see of Liev alot more. The poll option I chose was to ignore the Sabretooth in X1, I think all those other options like the son and the cloning are too cheesy.

What I want to know is for the people still complaining about Liev's look is if you've ever read Sabretooths 4 part miniseries which I think came out in the mid to late '90s?

I remembering buying those when they were first released and liking them alot. In that miniseries his look is very similar to Liev, there are a number of scenes where he's at his place with Birdy(kind of a sidekick if you want to call her that)with that tiger striped animal suit we're used to him wearing off and he looks like a normal guy with sharp teeth and long sharp nails.

As I said before, I say ignore Tyler from X1 even though his look was accurate as well to a certain era/time of X-men comics.

Basically I'm more excited to see Liev's performance than I was to see Sabretooth in X1, part of that is due to what Inifinity has said about them dumbing him down bigtime for X1.

 

[Ratcrawler]

Kinda funny how X1 dumbed down Sabretooth and made Toad ****ing awesome.