Season 2, Episode 15: "Waiting for Superman" (SEASON FINALE - SPOILERS)

[Slick]

I’m fine with it not being In the Arrowverse but at least it’s still in the Arrowverse multiverse so I’ll take that. I mean it’s kinda like Stargirl now.

 

[flickchick85]

Haven’t been able to see the episode yet, but I’m very glad to hear it confirmed this show is in its own universe. It was waaaay past the window where it could have smoothly attached to the greater Arrowverse and that frankly would have just added restrictions and issues they don’t need. This gives them a lot more freedom and possibilities. While I would have liked to see Jon Cryer’s Lex face off with Tyler’s, I’m now feeling quite open to a new take. A new Supergirl, however, I think I’d be less open to. Wouldn’t rule it out, though.

 

[Gaultheria]

Yeah, but there's no way that the show could make Darkseid work with their budget. Smallville's final season made that evidently clear.

The CGI for Darkseid would be a re-skin of Superman’s Doomsday armor, so they’re partway there, but yeah.

I’m thinking that Manheim will turn out to be Kanto (Darkseid’s lieutenant), combining those two characters from Superman:TAS the way S&L already did with Edge/Tal-Rho.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Yeah, but there's no way that the show could make Darkseid work with their budget. Smallville's final season made that evidently clear.

I was really hoping for a Brainiac tease. Seriously, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that there's so much untapped potential in giving us a live action meeting between these two characters. The Producer's need to put his own stamp on everything is going to become a double edge sword for this show at this rate.

If Angel could give us this guy

S&L can do Darkseid. Unless the budget is just THAT CHEAP compared to WB shows of days past.

 

[Slick]

Ok this finale finished the season off in an epic fashion. So much win and I loved Clark’s big Superman returns moment. Love that the new Fortress of Solitude is in the middle of the ocean which is pretty new and I don’t know it’s from the comics.

Bruno Manheim and Intergang is what I pitched in my series ending post on this forum so I don’t know if Superman and Lois is preparing for the end because you know this will eventually lead to the ultimate big bad himself Darkseid.

Overall I enjoyed this season even though I felt season 1 was a tad bit stronger but this is still high quality superhero television and I can’t wait to see what Todd Helbing and the cast and crew come up with next season. Hopefully The Flash finale can finish on a high note because I also feel that show has been the most consistent in years this season. Anyway I am a happy geek right now.

 

[vantheman77]

Yes Fortress in the ocean is from the current comics.

They should use young Kara as Supergirl for Superman and Lois.

 

[herolee10]

The CGI for Darkseid would be a re-skin of Superman’s Doomsday armor, so they’re partway there, but yeah.

I’m thinking that Manheim will turn out to be Kanto (Darkseid’s lieutenant), combining those two characters from Superman:TAS the way S&L already did with Edge/Tal-Rho.

If Angel could give us this guy

S&L can do Darkseid. Unless the budget is just THAT CHEAP compared to WB shows of days past.

While this was done 11 years ago, SV's attempt at bringing Darkseid to the small screen doesn't evoke a lot of confidence in me that S&L will fare better.

I guess it's really impossible for Superman to peacefully coexist on an world with other costumed heroes. He got the short end of the stick in both the DCEU and Earth Prime.

Unless they plan on bringing a better villain for Season 3, I think I'll wait until it wraps up before tuning in. I'm really disappointed that the show doesn't plan on using any of Superman's well known villains. We have a great Superman in Tyler but no memorable villains for him to go take on.

 

[vantheman77]

Seeing the reactions concerning the Arrowverse revelation I have to ask - do they watch Superman & Lois for them or do they watch only to see if it connects to Arrowverse Earth-Prime?

 

[flickchick85]

"Truth, Justice and a Better Tomorrow." Guess that's officially the slogan of THIS Man of Tomorrow. "Miracle Monday." The fan service, I love it.

Really enjoyed this finale. The visuals were actually genuinely impressive in spots (I love that Gregory Smith), and they really gave us Superman doing something only Superman could to save the world(s). And there were many lovely surprises.

Lois telling Chrissy was genuinely shocking to me, but I love it. Based on her reaction (and her staring ), I'm kinda hoping to see more of her fangirl mode whenever she interacts with Clark now, lol.

Another pleasant surprise was Lana not taking Kyle back. I really thought they were headed for a reconciliation and wasn't here for it. This was a much better ending for them. And ngl, still holding out hope for her and John Henry.

I am definitely here for Bruno Mannheim and Intergang....as gateways to bigger things. They make excellent pawns, let's put it that way.

Said it before, but very glad to put the "will they, won't they" involving Arrowverse connections behind us. I was truly sick of it. And honestly, I don't care in the slightest about the rest of the Arrowverse that's left, anyway. I much prefer this show being its own thing at this point. My only wish now is that they do NOT introduce a new Supergirl. Tyler will forever be Melissa's Superman, imo, and "rebooting" her would just feel wrong to me, since we wouldn't even have him or this show without her show. If they don't want to bring her back (as she's already said more than once that she'd like to appear on it), that's fine, but in that case, just leave Supergirl out of it. There are plenty of Supes stories they can tell without her. Hell, I'd even rather see Power Girl than a rebooted Supergirl.

The Fortress for the whole family is something I definitely did not see coming (since when do they own a boat?!), and I adore it.

Overall, I know it's been divisive, but I definitely preferred this season over S1 (which I still love). It just felt more like a pure Superman story to me. And way less football, thank God. The things that bothered other people here, like Sarah's behavior, didn't bother me in the slightest, because I legit could not care less about teen romances so her and Jordan working out was never something I was expecting or was invested in, and, more importantly, it felt real to me. Teens are fickle and self-centered. That's just the way most teen relationships go in my experience. So Sarah behaving like a pretty typical teen never bugged me. Lana supporting her daughter throughout also rang true to me, so again, not bothered. And I enjoyed Ally as a villain more than others, especially in the first half - the actress brought some awesome nuance and menace to her when she was in "cult leader" mode, imo. In the 2nd half, she was basically no longer a character and just a force of nature (which, frankly, is how any version of Parasite usually goes), but provided awesome visuals and a unique/scary threat with the merging of the worlds, so I didn't see that as a problem. I also thoroughly enjoyed Tal Rho's every appearance this season and was glad he wasn't dead at the end of it like I assumed he'd be. The only things I'd give S1 over this one are 1.) Episode 11 from S1 is still my fave of the show, and 2.) Jon got a better showing in S1. But I felt like if S1 was Jon's time to shine, then S2 was Jordan's, because I definitely wasn't loving him last season like I am now. I haven't even mentioned the Steel fam yet! They brought SO much to this season, imo. Love 'em both, and I hope they never leave. And finally, I mean, we got a serious version of freakin' Bizarro and Bizarro World, ffs!!!! I still can't believe we actually got that in a live-action Superman show. Even if it had nothing else going for it, that would still probably put this season over the top for me.

Anyway, can't wait to see....whatever Bruno Mannheim and Intergang leads to next season, lol.

 

[vantheman77]

I hope that Jonathan Kent will wear the Unchained armor for the 3rd season.

 

[herolee10]

In hindsight, this actually explains a lot of the continuity errors between this show and Supergirl (e.g., red and blue heat vision, FOS setting). I read a few pages from a recent tie-in comic featuring Earth Prime's Superman and a lot of the character's backstory just didn't line up with the show's established canon.

I'm still disappointed that we'll never see Tyler's Superman interact with other costumed heroes again or take on the likes of Brainiac and Lex Luthor.

 

[flickchick85]

I'm still disappointed that we'll never see Tyler's Superman interact with other costumed heroes again or take on the likes of Brainiac and Lex Luthor.

Did Helbing say that in an interview or something?

 

[herolee10]

Did Helbing say that in an interview or something?

Not explicitly. However, he keeps saying that he doesn't want to use well known villains that have appeared in other shows. Plus, we're heading into Season 3 and they have yet to use one major villain from his gallery.

 

[flickchick85]

Not explicitly. However, he keeps saying that he doesn't want to use well known villains that have appeared in other shows. Plus, we're heading into Season 3 and they have yet to use one major villain from his gallery.

Uh, what?! I consider Bizarro a pretty huge villain from his rogue's gallery, personally. Like, definitely a top 10 Supes villain, even though I was personally never a fan until this version. And this was a different version of Parasite, but still Parasite, which is a pretty major villain. The Eradicator, too. These are some of Supes' top rogues from the comics, just far less overdone in live-action media. I think he was probably just talking about the usual go-to's, like Zod, Metallo, Toyman, etc - the ones who appear on every Supes show ever made, lol. Probably Lex, too, yes. Though he's been mentioned a lot on the show so at the very least, we know he's a part of THIS Superman's rogue's gallery already. But I would think Brainiac would still be very much on the table considering we've never seen Superman go up against a proper version of him in live-action at all.

However, my totally random (hopeful) prediction is that next season is gonna toss the Intergang/Bruno plotline, All-Star Superman, and another cosmic villain into a blender. What I mean is, I think we might get ramifications of Supes' trip into the sun that resemble the set up for All-Star, and I think the Intergang/Bruno plot is probably gonna tease Darkseid as a red herring since that's the character they're usually pawns for, and then reveal it to be Mongul or Brainiac or someone else otherworldly (and less overdone) instead.

Frankly, I think Supes has way too many good rogues that rarely or never see the light of day in live-action media for this show to just use the same damn 3-5 all other Supes media uses, so that notion makes me very happy.

 

[chamber-music]

I'm glad we are getting lesser known and different variations of Superman's rogues.

Looking forward to seeing Bruno Mannheim and Intergang show up. Seeing superpowered/super tech using organised criminals is a nice change of pace from the aliens and alternate dimension foes of the previous two seasons. They know to keep things interesting they should mix things up.

 

[Batmannerism]

As much as I like seeing Superman save the day it's like the writers just ran out of ideas.

Spoiler

Rather than think of something clever and interesting to stop Ally, they chuck Supes in the sun and he "gets better".

He gets so much better that he can suddenly overpower Ally....because reasons then he flies really fast and fixes the merging by....doing something. I guess he punched the world so hard they stopped merging.

And the Langs had some family dramas.

Up until recently this show was fantastic....now, not so much.

 

[Slick]

In hindsight, this actually explains a lot of the continuity errors between this show and Supergirl (e.g., red and blue heat vision, FOS setting). I read a few pages from a recent tie-in comic featuring Earth Prime's Superman and a lot of the character's backstory just didn't line up with the show's established canon.

I'm still disappointed that we'll never see Tyler's Superman interact with other costumed heroes again or take on the likes of Brainiac and Lex Luthor.

Yeah I read that too and it makes me wonder why S&L was included. I guess that Superman was from Earth Prime I guess.

 

[NotNickFury]

Didn't expect to get a tease of the Intergang of all groups or villains, but nice to see other villains get a chance to shine. Especially considering we'll also be getting them in Black Adam after their tease in Peacemaker.

 

[titansupes]

Jesus, this was... just awful.

The whole season's (maybe even from the last third or so of S1) been steadily sliding downhill, but this finale was just tumbling down head first. The writing, the direction and VFX...

Very disappointed considering how much I loved S1.

 

[Primal Slayer]

While this was done 11 years ago, SV's attempt at bringing Darkseid to the small screen doesn't evoke a lot of confidence in me that S&L will fare better.

I guess it's really impossible for Superman to peacefully coexist on an world with other costumed heroes. He got the short end of the stick in both the DCEU and Earth Prime.

Unless they plan on bringing a better villain for Season 3, I think I'll wait until it wraps up before tuning in. I'm really disappointed that the show doesn't plan on using any of Superman's well known villains. We have a great Superman in Tyler but no memorable villains for him to go take on.

Smallville couldn't even do costumes correct. I don't think they were suited for a lot of things

 

[Frodo]

So , basically The S&L Clark ,Lois , and Lana , are from a different universe than the Supergirl Clark ,Lois, and Lana?

In others words, The Arrowverse has it's own Superman and Lois , but that's not the Superman and Lois from this series?

 

[Prison Mike]

So , basically The S&L Clark ,Lois , and Lana , are from a different universe than the Supergirl Clark ,Lois, and Lana?

In others words, The Arrowverse has it's own Superman and Lois , but that's not the Superman and Lois from this series?

Yeah, this is a different earth from earth prime which is the Arrowverse shows post Arrow.

 

[Frodo]

Okay, thanks. .

It makes sense as someone else noted.

That does free them, if they wish, to eventually introduce their own Lex, Metallo, Brainiac, Supergirl, etc without having to be bound to the continuity and versions of the Supergirl versions.

It also explains why Sam Lane went from looking like this on Supergirl season 1

To this on Superman and Lois

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Solid finale, Superman's method of splitting the earths was a bit out of nowhere, but other than that I have no real complaints, seeing an overcharged Superman was cool.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Uh, what?! I consider Bizarro a pretty huge villain from his rogue's gallery, personally. Like, definitely a top 10 Supes villain, even though I was personally never a fan until this version. And this was a different version of Parasite, but still Parasite, which is a pretty major villain. The Eradicator, too. These are some of Supes' top rogues from the comics, just far less overdone in live-action media. I think he was probably just talking about the usual go-to's, like Zod, Metallo, Toyman, etc - the ones who appear on every Supes show ever made, lol. Probably Lex, too, yes. Though he's been mentioned a lot on the show so at the very least, we know he's a part of THIS Superman's rogue's gallery already. But I would think Brainiac would still be very much on the table considering we've never seen Superman go up against a proper version of him in live-action at all.

However, my totally random (hopeful) prediction is that next season is gonna toss the Intergang/Bruno plotline, All-Star Superman, and another cosmic villain into a blender. What I mean is, I think we might get ramifications of Supes' trip into the sun that resemble the set up for All-Star, and I think the Intergang/Bruno plot is probably gonna tease Darkseid as a red herring since that's the character they're usually pawns for, and then reveal it to be Mongul or Brainiac or someone else otherworldly (and less overdone) instead.

Frankly, I think Supes has way too many good rogues that rarely or never see the light of day in live-action media for this show to just use the same damn 3-5 all other Supes media uses, so that notion makes me very happy.

Yeah, I have a hard time imagining the likes of Brainiac and Darkseid aren't on the table, especially with Superman's live action future outside this show being so uncertain. Another thing to keep in mind is that plans change, the temptation to eventually bring in Lex Luthor might be too strong to ignore for several more seasons.