Should there be more coordination between the Marvel televsion and film units

They had the perfect opportunity to do something of a crossover or at least a mention of them being in the same universe with CW. The Inhuman outbreak at the very least should have been mentioned, but they chose not to. It's a real shame as it doesn't look like they want to mention them in the movies.

Personally I would love to see JJ, DD and Luke Cage in the movies, as well as Quake, but I doubt it's going to happen anytime soon and it's getting a bit annoying the way the cross over seems only one way. But oh well, maybe one day.
 
I would like to see them too but the reality is what it is
 
Honestly,

I would hope for a yes but based on the films and TV shows put out so far, I don't think this is necessary. The Agent's of Shield Tv show is just that a Tv show. It doesn't progress the movie's whatsoever but can enhance certain aspects of the movie's somewhat... I know that sounds lame but I think it's the truth. The television show exists on it's own. The movie's don't really make it that easy for a television show but the fact that one exists is a kudos (golf clap I suppose).

It just isn't possible to make tentpole projects interweaving with TV shows (trying to get ratings to at least make another season) it seems. Maybe someone will change that... Who knows.
 
There should be coordination, and maybe, if there had been, AoS wouldn't be as sorry as it's become. I think, from the beginning, there was discord, not just in the political structure (and there was that), but the movies said a character was very importantly dead and AoS said a character was very importantly alive. I think from then on, that division of theme and consistency has only grown. There have been bright spots, that show us how great a coordinated AoS could have been. Great example: the Winter Soldier crossover with AoS. It is, largely agreed to be a high point of the show.

I think a coordinated AoS would have done for SHIELD what all the other MCU franchises have done for their corners of the Marvel Universe: dive deep and expand. What happened with Agents of SHIELD, I think, is that it started out trying to explore the MCU instead of the Marvel Universe proper in the context of the MCU, and, well... there's just not enough there, there.

So without taking time to rag too much on a show that a lot of people have put a lot of work into and have a lot of passion for, I'm going to say it is a good call to leave these things separated.

Netflix is a whole other deal. They share the same streets with the Avengers as well as similar production and narrative quality. I think the Defenders should definitely team up with the Avengers at some point, in the same way I think Dr. Strange and the Guardians of the Galaxy should.
 
I suspect that any "increased cooperation" with AoS was doomed from the start, since the first big "fruit" of their ties to the movies was "the entire premise of the show, by which it was sold to audiences and the network, gets exploded". That kind of poisons the well, since any further collaboration will always sit under the shadow of "What if the movies do something with the setting that is bad for our show?" I mean, bluntly, I suspect ABC would have much preferred if Agents of SHIELD had remained a spy procedural, however much life might have been temporarily breathed into it by Hydra.
 
That's a fair analysis. If they were TRULY coordinated, it would have been a materially different show, including not starring Coulson and not being called Agents of SHIELD. I guess I just think that would have been a good thing.
 
In retrospect, it probably would have been, and I say that as someone who likes Coulson, and eagerly wanted a TV show starring him.

I don't even think Agents of SHIELD is irredeemable as a premise, it just... kind of needed to happen "sooner" so to speak. It would have needed at least one season where it could just be its own thing, establishing a status quo. It would have also needed buy-in at the approval stage of ". . .and at some point, SHIELD goes kerplooey!", though, and I'm not sure Marvel would have been willing to risk leaking one of its big setting turns potentially years before it happened.

Of course, I could probably spend all day listing out the various ways things could have been changed to make AoS a better show. Its a long list. . .
 
In retrospect, it probably would have been, and I say that as someone who likes Coulson, and eagerly wanted a TV show starring him.

I don't even think Agents of SHIELD is irredeemable as a premise, it just... kind of needed to happen "sooner" so to speak. It would have needed at least one season where it could just be its own thing, establishing a status quo. It would have also needed buy-in at the approval stage of ". . .and at some point, SHIELD goes kerplooey!", though, and I'm not sure Marvel would have been willing to risk leaking one of its big setting turns potentially years before it happened.

Of course, I could probably spend all day listing out the various ways things could have been changed to make AoS a better show. Its a long list. . .

I tend to enjoy making such lists, so I'd love to see someone else's. I'm not sure what you mean by additional buy in though. Do you mean by the showrunners, studio or audience? Maybe all, because it would definitely be a second show going into its second season. Maybe with a new name, which is rare, but I think it would have been the best option, and would have preserved the secret. But, that's hindsight mostly. But then again, there are some things that I didn't like about AoS from the get go, including reviving the awesome but totally dead Coulson. But honestly, even that could have been done in a cool way, I think, if there were more coordination, not so much crossover, but just an alignment of messaging and servicing of Marvel fans and not just Coulson fans.

So, not only a different show in Season 1, but a different different show going into Season 2. It would have been a very difficult show to write, I think. But I still dream...

The logistics would be a nightmare.

I heard someone else say that, and I'm not sure I'm totally convinced. Certainly you couldn't pull off a huge crossover on any kind of regular basis, but scheduling people for TV and for movise isn't the hardest thing in the world. In a perfect world, the only time we would have seen the Agents of SHIELD in the movies would be as line-less cameos at SHIELD HQ in CA:TWS and on the Helicarrier in Age of Ultron. It's possible that a character would have to go missing from the show for a week or two, but that's not exactly a nightmare, and can actually lead to making a show better, depending.

Going the opposite way, just like scheduling Jamie Alexander wasn't a game-breaker, and Sam Jackson was done on a whim, the same with scheduling virtually any of the supporting cast from the films. Selvig, Darcy, Sharon, Maria, Happy, Hope, The Wombats, The Warriors Three... many of them have already been successfully scheduled to be on other TV shows, without all the nightmare. Even the shooting schedules aren't that bad, it's weeks before they're doing the big promotional push so that it airs a bit after the movie they're in comes out.

Plus all the things that didn't need scheduling. An episode arc about Loki's Scepter pre-AoU would have been wonderful synergy, imho. There's cool MacGuffins to be had from almost every film. Pairing that with 5+ minor characters showing up each year, and that makes for a really connected feeling, even if they never show up in the films, and if they do... most people couldn't ask for more, and even the people who think that TV characters should get their own movie would be at least a little bit happy.

I think the real challenge to a coordinated AoS show would be weaving a narrative through the kind of consistent crossover or themes and macguffins that would have been the most fan-pleasing. I mean, first season was pretty straight even with little coordination, what with Thor 2 having natural fallout on Earth and Cap 2 naturally "kablooeying" the show in a spectacular fireball. The challenge is, knowing that, at least the broad strokes, a year and some change out, how do you write a story that fit with that. You probably don't write a story about big SHIELD secrets that don't come out, and you can't really deal with HYDRA directly and spoil the movie, so you've got to do a sort of red herring type of villain. I think that's what they were trying to do with Centipede, but because it didn't have its own narrative, the villain before the reveal felt really light and impactless.

The nightmare is... how do I create a villain that gets people excited and also gets people even more excited when it's suddenly HYDRA all along? That's more than a little bit challenging. Season 2 would be an even bigger challenge as you basically are called on to make getting a helicarrier out of mothballs into a big deal. They found something that worked for that with 'The Real SHIELD' though I don't think they tied it in that well, but even so, that still looks down on the thematic progression of Cap 2. And it's not just kablooeying the premise of the show that the show has to worry about. Ward's fate was sealed as soon as he got picked to be HYDRA. They probably dragged it out too long, honestly. The show would have to change, sometimes dramatically, depending on the plot of the latest movie, and sometimes have to readjust as the movie changes just before and during filming, and that, that is a nightmare. That would have been a stunt like no other. But gosh darn would the synergy have been incredible.

I don't think the Netflix shows have that same opportunity because they don't claim to cover the whole world the way SHIELD does. There's a bit of synergy there, potentially... but not a ton. It's more 'It'd be nice to see these characters meet.' I mean, I saw someone wishing Cap or Tony had swung by Hell's Kitchen to pick up DD, but his absence wasn't really consequential, either for him or for the larger fight.
 
Its not about scheduling an actor to appear on the show. The logistics problem is making the scripts mesh, when the way scripts are plotted is radically different for movies and TV. Admittedly, this is mainly a problem for having stuff go from TV to movie ( any upcoming movie will have its plot locked down upward of a full season before release, so any TV references have to be either edited in last minute, or from older seasons ).

Anyway, I think the biggest mistakes they made:

0. Green lighting the show in the first place, doing all the prepwork and initial scripts and such, and then "SHIELD goes kaboom!" The showrunners only found out after they'd done a great deal of initial work, and that undermined everything and forced them to go a specific direction with specific results.

1. Having Coulson's operation become the heirs to SHIELD, trying to operate like they can rebuild SHIELD and eventually have things back to normal. Given that the movies were not going to reintroduce SHIELD, it results in a narrative direction that just doesn't work. Either failure is inevitable, or else he has to succeed at putting together an organization that looks an awful lot more like SHIELD's mistakes than successes.

2. Going too big. The inevitable question with any big superhero plot is "Why didn't _____ help?" The MCU is big enough and broad enough that you can avoid this without too much trouble, IMO. AoS decided to instead see how hard they could smash on suspension of disbelief with a hammer, courtesy of the extended Inhumans plotline. You shouldn't write stories where there is literally no good reason to not get on a phone and go "Hey, Avengers? There's a literal world-threatening bad thing happening at these coordinates."

3. Too much HYDRA. Not only did it get repetitive, but it stripped the grandeur from them as a villain group. If they were going to use Hydra remnants in season 2, fine, that makes sense. There should have been *zero* Hydra in season 3.
 
2. Going too big. The inevitable question with any big superhero plot is "Why didn't _____ help?" The MCU is big enough and broad enough that you can avoid this without too much trouble, IMO. AoS decided to instead see how hard they could smash on suspension of disbelief with a hammer, courtesy of the extended Inhumans plotline. You shouldn't write stories where there is literally no good reason to not get on a phone and go "Hey, Avengers? There's a literal world-threatening bad thing happening at these coordinates."

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I also agree with your general point about the TV show being misconceived. I think as a whole, the idea of having this shared movie/TV universe was a promise they really could never deliver on in the way people were expecting.
 
SHIELD was fine in its first season. I think trying to do this whole world-altering plot with the Inhumans was a mistake
 
SHIELD's first season sucked for the most part. Season 2 was a big improvement and then they went and bit off more than they could chew with the Inhumans.
 
SHIELD's first season sucked for the most part. Season 2 was a big improvement and then they went and bit off more than they could chew with the Inhumans.

Season 1 was awful until the Hydra stuff started 2/3rds of the way through.
 
Yeah, the Hydra stuff was great.
 
The idea of a connected live-action universe in which characters smoothly move back and forth between film and television sounds great in theory but in practice was a disappointment. The fall of SHIELD plot line that had Sitwell, Fury and Hill tip toeing back and forth between TV and the multiplex was wonderful and made up for a poor start to the series. But that type of coordination hasn't been seen since.

We've seen DD, JJ and AC succeed (alas, not in the ratings for Ms. Carter) by carving out their own unique space in the MCU, and I highly doubt Marvel would ever green light another "real time" MCU series after AOS leaves the air. Which will probably be this May. Iron Fist, Punisher, Cloak & Dagger and whatever follows will likely have minimal ties to what is happening on the big screen.
 
I think there should be between AoS and the Netflix shows first
 
I think there should be between AoS and the Netflix shows first

Introducing some of the more fantastical elements of AOS into the gritty crime dramas of the Netflix series could be a mistake. And why would Coulson concern himself with brutish crime bosses lording over the residents of a NYC borough? He would be of greater use protecting the hundreds of troubled cities in the US that don't have super human vigilantes on the job.
 
Introducing some of the more fantastical elements of AOS into the gritty crime dramas of the Netflix series could be a mistake. And why would Coulson concern himself with brutish crime bosses lording over the residents of a NYC borough? He would be of greater use protecting the hundreds of troubled cities in the US that don't have super human vigilantes on the job.

Agreed. SHIELD has no place in a street level series like Daredevil or Jessica Jones.
 
Agreed. SHIELD has no place in a street level series like Daredevil or Jessica Jones.

I disagree, in that I could see SHIELD serving a "these are the people you hand captured supervillains over to" role. Obviously that is moot after the fall of SHIELD, though, and its the only role I could see them really having. The events of the Netflix shows are just not of the scale to really matter to SHIELD and its peers. Except the Hand, I suppose, but I'm willing to buy a centuries old organization with vast wealth and resources could keep itself out of sight.
 
It would be nice but just not possible logistically. Movie scripts are written well in advance of any tv season as others have said. Budgets are plotted out. Let's say they decide to bring someone from Agents or Netflix into a film. Then the upcoming season of that show will have to work around the timeline of the movie which could constrict it creatively. I think the Netflix shows work fine as a corner of MCU. But with Shield bringing in Inhumans, they really blurred the lines of when the Avengers should get involved.
 
IMHO there should be.

There really should've been no reason Coulson didn't appear in Age of Ultron to help out and use the Agents of SHIELD cast instead of that one tech dude who was in one scene from Winter Soldier.

I think Coulson should've visited Daredevil and basically said, "We know who you are and we are keeping tabs on you. We like what you are doing, but if you go to far, we'll end you."
 
IMHO there should be.

There really should've been no reason Coulson didn't appear in Age of Ultron to help out and use the Agents of SHIELD cast instead of that one tech dude who was in one scene from Winter Soldier.

As for Coulson, Coulson's return to the movies cheapens his death from the first Avengers movie. And because so little people watch Agents of SHEILD, there's no real incentive to bring him back. Let the movies move on without him.

I do agree that having some of the other SHEILD crew show up on the helicarrier instead of the tech guy would've been nice.

I think Coulson should've visited Daredevil and basically said, "We know who you are and we are keeping tabs on you. We like what you are doing, but if you go to far, we'll end you."

God no. Please keep the Agents of SHIELD, and especially Coulson, out of the Netflix stuff. And that's coming from someone who's kept up all of the seasons of AoS.
 
Yeah they really should just keep out AOS. Anyway if its get canceled this year or next year, I'd be easy to just ignore the whole show and act like it was just the films and the Netflix shows.
 
I think Coulson should've visited Daredevil and basically said, "We know who you are and we are keeping tabs on you. We like what you are doing, but if you go to far, we'll end you."

And then DD breaks Coulson's jaw and nonchalantly skips away while whistling.

There really should've been no reason Coulson didn't appear in Age of Ultron to help out and use the Agents of SHIELD cast instead of that one tech dude who was in one scene from Winter Soldier.

That's already been discussed to death. Whedon and Marvel felt that explaining Coulson's resurrection and having the Avengers react to it would take up too much time (especially since it's entirely irrelevant to the actual plot about Ultron), and that just dropping him in with a quick cameo would be confusing since the movie audience dwarfs that of AOS.

Good rule of thumb is that if you want something to impact your movies, you should have it actually happen in the movies, not a spin-off show.
 
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