The 2012 New Hampshire Republican Presidential Debate

[hippie_hunter]

According to polls (I'll dig them up tomorrow): Among independents, Paul scores the best versus the other candidates. In a general election situation, Paul was the only GOP candidate who polled better than Obama.

Independents, moderates and the people on the "left" are quite likely to vote for Ron.

As for "insanity", the platform of the other candidates will bankrupt the country, which is kinda insane if you ask me The majority of people want out of the wars and smaller government; both of which Paul represents.


and for everyones entertainment:
http://multiplechoicemitt.com/

Mitt Romney beats Obama in a couple of polls as well.

 

[Paradoxium]

The biggest loser of the debate is CNN and King with his ****ing stupid question about American Idol and iPods iPhone. Unbelievable.

 

[DACrowe]

According to polls (I'll dig them up tomorrow): Among independents, Paul scores the best versus the other candidates. In a general election situation, Paul was the only GOP candidate who polled better than Obama.

Independents, moderates and the people on the "left" are quite likely to vote for Ron.

As for "insanity", the platform of the other candidates will bankrupt the country, which is kinda insane if you ask me The majority of people want out of the wars and smaller government; both of which Paul represents.


and for everyones entertainment:
http://multiplechoicemitt.com/

I doubt there are many polls showing he polls well with independents as most independents don't know who he is. He appeals to a certain faction on the right (or more precisely, libertarians). As for the other GOP candidates, I do agree that just cutting taxes and ignoring defense and entitlements is the recipe of the Reagan and Bush administrations that have run up most of our debt and created most of the current deficit in the last Bush's case.

However, while Paul's plan would likely bring down costs, it also would end Medicare, Social Security, the EPA, and a number of services people enjoy. When most independents realize that when someone like Paul says "smaller government" that they mean no government or a return to the 19th century....they tend to back off real fast. Just look at Paul Ryan's half-step measure of privatizing Medicare and turning it into a voucher system. That still leaves a program in placed called Medicare (though it is no longer the same program), but the fact that it essentially is forcing seniors to buy their own health insurance with a return to pre-existing conditions and forces them to pay for most of their healthcare is a dead weight around the GOP's neck. It could be the issue that severely hurts them in the next election. Ron Paul is that kind of philosophy on steroids. Most Americans do not want that.

 

[Paradoxium]

Exactly America wants to be Greece on steroids.

 

[StorminNorman]

I doubt there are many polls showing he polls well with independents as most independents don't know who he is. He appeals to a certain faction on the right (or more precisely, libertarians). As for the other GOP candidates, I do agree that just cutting taxes and ignoring defense and entitlements is the recipe of the Reagan and Bush administrations that have run up most of our debt and created most of the current deficit in the last Bush's case.

However, while Paul's plan would likely bring down costs, it also would end Medicare, Social Security, the EPA, and a number of services people enjoy. When most independents realize that when someone like Paul says "smaller government" that they mean no government or a return to the 19th century....they tend to back off real fast. Just look at Paul Ryan's half-step measure of privatizing Medicare and turning it into a voucher system. That still leaves a program in placed called Medicare (though it is no longer the same program), but the fact that it essentially is forcing seniors to buy their own health insurance with a return to pre-existing conditions and forces them to pay for most of their healthcare is a dead weight around the GOP's neck. It could be the issue that severely hurts them in the next election. Ron Paul is that kind of philosophy on steroids. Most Americans do not want that.

Paul would preserve Medicare and Social Security for people currently on it, which is an (unfortunate) necessity. (His position on Medicare last night surprised me a bit, but combine that position with his NO vote on the Ryan budget and an effective campaign could make him a favorite amongst seniors.) The EPA needs to go, and I don't think that is the issue you think it is with average American Adam.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Yeah, I don't think that many Americans asides from diehard environmentalists will cry over the EPA being gotten rid of. It's really Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, WIC, etc. that the debate is really going to focus on.

 

[Franklin Richards]

No hippie. Many Americans care about the EPA. The entirety of the Democratic Party.

 

[hippie_hunter]

No hippie. Many Americans care about the EPA. The entirety of the Democratic Party.

I'm not saying that Americans hate the EPA, most Americans do see the need to protect the environment. But unless you're a diehard green, most Americans aren't going to moan and whine if the EPA went away as opposed to the various entitlement programs. We have engrained Social Security and whatnot into our culture, while the EPA, not so much.

Also, I wouldn't consider conservative Blue Dog Democrats to be the most ardent supporters of the environment. Environmentalism just really doesn't work in the most conservative miner areas in the Appalachian Mountains and the West.

 

[DACrowe]

Paul would preserve Medicare and Social Security for people currently on it, which is an (unfortunate) necessity. (His position on Medicare last night surprised me a bit, but combine that position with his NO vote on the Ryan budget and an effective campaign could make him a favorite amongst seniors.) The EPA needs to go, and I don't think that is the issue you think it is with average American Adam.

The Ryan plan preserves Medicare as it is for current and soon-to-be seniors. Voters still didn't fall for the attempt to dismantle the program.

A lot of people at first glance may shrug about EPA, but when they realize nobody is making sure that companies aren't dumping crap into their drinking water, run-off or excessive amounts of pollution into their air that can change.

Stewart had a funny bit about Paul tonight. I'll post it tomorrow if I remember.

 

[DACrowe]

Exactly America wants to be Greece on steroids.

While conservatives and libertarians want to be Ireland on steroids. Not vaguely 10-20 years down the road, but tomorrow.

 

[StorminNorman]

No hippie. Many Americans care about the EPA. The entirety of the Democratic Party.

Shoot. The Ron Paul may have a hard time picking up Democratic voters.

 

[hippie_hunter]

While conservatives and libertarians want to be Ireland on steroids. Not vaguely 10-20 years down the road, but tomorrow.

Ireland is a horrible example because Ireland isn't on austerity because they want to. They're cutting their budget because they have to and are legally obliged to in order to get funds due to their horrible banking policies biting them in the ass.

I would say libertarians want to be New Hampshire on steroids

 

[Kelly]

I'm not saying that Americans hate the EPA, most Americans do see the need to protect the environment. But unless you're a diehard green, most Americans aren't going to moan and whine if the EPA went away as opposed to the various entitlement programs. We have engrained Social Security and whatnot into our culture, while the EPA, not so much.

Also, I wouldn't consider conservative Blue Dog Democrats to be the most ardent supporters of the environment. Environmentalism just really doesn't work in the most conservative miner areas in the Appalachian Mountains and the West.

Those that know what the EPA does, realize that their job loss is due to clean air policy that has moved mining West...the EPA is not at the top of their, "I like you" list...

 

[hippie_hunter]

FYI, Obamacare isn't popular in Florida and the auto bailout isn't popular in Ohio.

Proof:

Only 34 percent of Florida voters support the new law while 54 percent are against it, according to the poll. Opposition is significantly strong among two crucial blocs: those older than 65 and voters with no party affiliation. Seniors disfavor the bill by a 65-25 percent margin, while independents oppose the law 62-34.

The president’s pitch on saving the domestic auto companies from bankruptcy is targeted at a manufacturing state like Ohio, but the argument seems to be falling on deaf ears. It’s a tough sell—one Democratic strategist who ran races in Ohio last year lamented that, even in Democratic-friendly districts, the auto-bailout message was a losing issue in focus groups.

 

[Paradoxium]

While conservatives and libertarians want to be Ireland on steroids. Not vaguely 10-20 years down the road, but tomorrow.

Yea because Libertarians are high big government spending and bailouts, and getting screwed in the pooch by the IMF. Real awesome. Hong Kong which is closer to Libertarianism has the lowest unemployment in the world.

If you are going to bailout or stimulate you damn well better have the surplus or capital to do it. Ireland and America does not.

 

[8wid]

CNN: Ron Paul Most Applauded, LOST GOP Debate with 0% Percent Votes!

Proof that CNN biased the final poll.

 

[Kelly]

OMG I'M SO SURPRISED.....*insert sarcasm*

 

[Paradoxium]

They didn't even try to hide the ********. Even 1% is more convincing than ZERO.

 

[Marx]

Zero percent!?

 

[hippie_hunter]

Pawlenty's Intrade stock has fallen to 13%.

 

[Paradoxium]

Seem to have went mostly to Romney and Perry. Dammit Z-Paw

Still too early, knives not sharpened enough just yet.