The Batman General News & Discussion Thread - Part 2

[Art Vandelay]

Two Face could absolutely be written to have an even larger role than Joker in this trilogy.

But he won't. And I think you know he won't. Because once the Joker pops up, every other villain becomes second banana. The days of Joker being just another villain in Batman's rogue gallery died when Heath won't Best Supporting Actor. He exists on his own tier in the Batman villain hierarchy. Which is why you're not having a star like McConaughey play anyone else but the Joker, because the Joker would just end up eclipsing anyone else on screen.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

I want to see criminally insane gangster Two-Face suffering from multiple personality disorder. I think it’s also a good opportunity to introduce ecoterrorist/femme fatale Pamela Isley as Harvey Dent’s love interest.



I could see Harvey’s disfiguration being a result of him pursuing the Court of Owls. Perhaps Poison Ivy could be under their employ. I like the idea of the Court being overarching baddies of the series.

 

[Marvel united]

Unpopular opinion but I think Two-Face's story has been told, and there is only so many ways to can rehash a character before general audiences tire of them

And there are a limited number of ways you can interpret Harvey Dent as a fresh element, compared to someone like Joker

 

[DeadlyWest]

Unpopular opinion but I think Two-Face's story has been told, and there is only so many ways to can rehash a character before general audiences tire of them

And there are a limited number of ways you can interpret Harvey Dent as a fresh element, compared to someone like Joker

I partially agree. Two Face is certainly more limited, but TDK didn't necessarily touch on the multiple personalities aspect of him too much. Stuff like the coin was more just his modus operandi rather than a compulsion he seemingly has to carry out. And there wasn't overtly multiple personalities. He just lost it and fell from grace. There's definitely more to tell with Two Face.

 

[cryptic name]

Two Face could absolutely be written to have an even larger role than Joker in this trilogy. I agree that McC is way too big for lots of other characters though, but Two Face is absolutely a big deal that would warrant someone like him. I guarantee Two Face won't be playing second fiddle like in TDK. Characters can be written to have big sizable roles to warrant having a big name. I can easily imagine Two Face and Penguin as the main villains in the sequel, with them having a turf war, Batman caught in the middle.

Especially if Bruce is actively trying to save Harvey and get him the help he needs.

 

[cryptic name]

Unpopular opinion but I think Two-Face's story has been told, and there is only so many ways to can rehash a character before general audiences tire of them

And there are a limited number of ways you can interpret Harvey Dent as a fresh element, compared to someone like Joker

I honestly think the definitive Two Face story in a movie is yet to be seen. And I know there's no way around seeing him, but I'm so sick of the Joker.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Unpopular opinion but I think Two-Face's story has been told, and there is only so many ways to can rehash a character before general audiences tire of them

And there are a limited number of ways you can interpret Harvey Dent as a fresh element, compared to someone like Joker

I honestly agree. I feel like Harveys story was outstanding in TDK, so I'm curious how it could be done differently and still be fresh.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

Harvey’s arc in The Dark Knight was seemingly inspired by Jim Gordon in The Killing Joke. Joker was unsuccessful in breaking Jim in TKJ, but successful in breaking Harvey in TDK. A good man pushed to his limits is so not what I wanted to see for Harvey. I want to see a legitimately scary and mentally ill Harvey who has no choice but to obey the impulses of his Big Bad Harv persona. He should reach a breaking point where his other identity is triggered and becomes dominant, but we didn’t see multiple personalities in TDK.

I think there is a LOT of room for improvement when it comes to Two-Face. We have yet to see a definitive version. TDK Two-Face served that story, but he was far from ideal.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I think if Harvey is introduced in this movie at the end or something, They'll probably progress his character over the course of the trilogy. I could totally see him becoming Two Face potentially by the end of the 2nd movie which would be really cool to me. I feel like I'm already picturing McConaughey as Harvey and I know I shouldnt haha.

 

[CondimentKing]

But he won't. And I think you know he won't. Because once the Joker pops up, every other villain becomes second banana. The days of Joker being just another villain in Batman's rogue gallery died when Heath won't Best Supporting Actor. He exists on his own tier in the Batman villain hierarchy. Which is why you're not having a star like McConaughey play anyone else but the Joker, because the Joker would just end up eclipsing anyone else on screen.

The easy solution is to just not have Joker until the third movie then. And Colin Farrell is still a pretty big name and he's in this movie for 10 minutes (not as big as McC but still major). Having a big name for Two-Face wouldn't be an issue at all (and makes sense if he's the main baddie in movie 2), just get someone else appropriately big for Joker later imo. I think these are all non-issues, I'm sure Reeves will figure it out. I'm expecting the rogues gallery to be like in 66 given his love of the show

I understand the cynicism about Joker's popularity though

 

[Marvel united]

I honestly agree. I feel like Harveys story was outstanding in TDK, so I'm curious how it could be done differently and still be fresh.

For me, that's really the problem. All of the ideas I've seen proposed are really just slight differences in characterizations, and it feels so limited.

Somebody like the Joker on the other hand, can be completely reimagined such is the nature of the character.

Harvey’s arc in The Dark Knight was seemingly inspired by Jim Gordon in The Killing Joke. Joker was unsuccessful in breaking Jim in TKJ, but successful in breaking Harvey in TDK. A good man pushed to his limits is so not what I wanted to see for Harvey. I want to see a legitimately scary and mentally ill Harvey who has no choice but to obey the impulses of his Big Bad Harv persona. He should reach a breaking point where his other identity is triggered and becomes dominant, but we didn’t see multiple personalities in TDK.

I think there is a LOT of room for improvement when it comes to Two-Face. We have yet to see a definitive version. TDK Two-Face served that story, but he was far from ideal.

But do these things really justify the need to tell that story again? Because, at the end of day, these are minor differences, that I don't think many people outside of fandom would care all that much about. Slightly closer to the comics is not fresh enough

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

For me, that's really the problem. All of the ideas I've seen proposed are really just slight differences in characterizations, and it feels so limited.

Somebody like the Joker on the other hand, can be completely reimagined such is the nature of the character.

But do these things really justify the need to tell that story again? Because, at the end of day, these are minor differences, that I don't think many people outside of fandom would care all that much about. Slightly closer to the comics is not fresh enough

With that argument, you should be complaining about The Batman using Riddler, Penguin, Catwoman and Falcone. Two-Face is a top tier villain, he belongs in this series. Whether he is a primary villain or not, he needs to be in this series. TDK was 13 years ago, time for a new Two-Face. There’s room for improvement.

 

[Eddie Dean]

I do not want to see Harvey’s fall again. Unless it’s entirely reimagined from the ground up, it’s TDK again. Having a full formed Two-Face show up would be a ok with me though.

 

[Gothamsknight]

For me, that's really the problem. All of the ideas I've seen proposed are really just slight differences in characterizations, and it feels so limited.

Somebody like the Joker on the other hand, can be completely reimagined such is the nature of the character.

I wonder if Two Face already exists in Reeves world at this point or not.

 

[CondimentKing]

For me, that's really the problem. All of the ideas I've seen proposed are really just slight differences in characterizations, and it feels so limited.

Somebody like the Joker on the other hand, can be completely reimagined such is the nature of the character.

But do these things really justify the need to tell that story again? Because, at the end of day, these are minor differences, that I don't think many people outside of fandom would care all that much about. Slightly closer to the comics is not fresh enough

If you remove Two-Face away from Joker, give him split personality and have him already be deformed by movie 2 it'll be wildly different imo. I think showing the downfall in a movie after TDK would be a waste of time though. To me it feels like his downfall set into motion parts of the corruption that Riddler is going after.

Sarsgaard is the DA, so it makes sense to me that a mediocre corrupt DA has replaced the great shining white knight of Gotham. Batman has lost a major ally and that's part of the reason why he's getting brutal, and why Gordon is desperate to work with Batman.

Then you just do the downfall in the prequel TV show afterwards after a reveal in The Batman but before movie 2 comes out. In the mayor's house there's a newspaper article that says Maroni drug bust. I bet you the show is Gordon and Harvey vs Maroni, eventually leading to the acid scene at the end. McConaughey is also not adverse to doing HBO shows (cough True Detective cough). You would announce the cast of the show after The Batmans out

Another thing with Harvey that hasn't been done is Batman genuinely wanting to help him. It's an opportunity for the most sympathetic Batman villain. Would be neat if Bruce has been visiting him in Arkham. Keep in mind this movie is 18 months into his career. That's around the time for TDK to take place. Lots of things have already happened

 

[RokMeAmadeus]

Joker is the no.1 arch nemesis of Batman. He's the Moriarty to his Sherlock, the Voldemort to his Harry Potter or whatever. If that bothers you even though it's been that way for the longest (long before Heath, believe it or not) idk what to tell you. That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing Reeves' take on Harvey.

I think what really bothers people is there's too many cringe takes on the Joker in recent times, too much "society" ****. A take that ignores all that nonsense and basically acknowledges him as the Satan of the Batman universe could be brilliant.

 

[shauner111]

If you remove Two-Face away from Joker, give him split personality and have him already be deformed by movie 2 it'll be wildly different imo. I think showing the downfall in a movie after TDK would be a waste of time though. To me it feels like his downfall set into motion parts of the corruption that Riddler is going after.

Sarsgaard is the DA, so it makes sense to me that a mediocre corrupt DA has replaced the great shining white knight of Gotham. Batman has lost a major ally and that's part of the reason why he's getting brutal, and why Gordon is desperate to work with Batman.

Then you just do the downfall in the prequel TV show afterwards after a reveal in The Batman but before movie 2 comes out. In the mayor's house there's a newspaper article that says Maroni drug bust. I bet you the show is Gordon and Harvey vs Maroni, eventually leading to the acid scene at the end. McConaughey is also not adverse to doing HBO shows (cough True Detective cough). You would announce the cast of the show after The Batmans out

Another thing with Harvey that hasn't been done is Batman genuinely wanting to help him. It's an opportunity for the most sympathetic Batman villain. Would be neat if Bruce has been visiting him in Arkham. Keep in mind this movie is 18 months into his career. That's around the time for TDK to take place. Lots of things have already happened

TDK was about 11-12 months into Batman’s “career” and Dent was already scarred, Joker/Scarecrow/Falcone were tossed in Arkham, Ras Al Ghul was dead and so was Maroni. So it works for me if Dent is sitting in his cell (bandaged face or not) flipping his coin in Reeves’ movie. In this world I’d only have Batman meet villains like Bane, Hush, Ras Al Ghul, the Court of Owls later. Like 10 years into his crusade (maybe post trilogy).

I want Harvey in 5 scenes in the sequel and then one of the many baddies in the third OR just have him be Two-Face in the sequel from start to finish. Joker is absolutely necessary but smaller doses throughout the trilogy is better. This full-on Joker vs Batman needs a break but you also can’t avoid him. He’s essential, like Catwoman. I suggested Poison Ivy/Two-Face months ago too so I guess me and Laz are the only ones really championing that. It’s obvious that in this day and age, the Batman sequel will need more women. If Bella Real is dead you might want to add Pamela Isley or Silver St Cloud into the mix anyhow.

 

[Gothamsknight]

If you remove Two-Face away from Joker, give him split personality and have him already be deformed by movie 2 it'll be wildly different imo. I think showing the downfall in a movie after TDK would be a waste of time though. To me it feels like his downfall set into motion parts of the corruption that Riddler is going after.

Sarsgaard is the DA, so it makes sense to me that a mediocre corrupt DA has replaced the great shining white knight of Gotham. Batman has lost a major ally and that's part of the reason why he's getting brutal, and why Gordon is desperate to work with Batman.

Then you just do the downfall in the prequel TV show afterwards after a reveal in The Batman but before movie 2 comes out. In the mayor's house there's a newspaper article that says Maroni drug bust. I bet you the show is Gordon and Harvey vs Maroni, eventually leading to the acid scene at the end. McConaughey is also not adverse to doing HBO shows (cough True Detective cough). You would announce the cast of the show after The Batmans out

Another thing with Harvey that hasn't been done is Batman genuinely wanting to help him. It's an opportunity for the most sympathetic Batman villain. Would be neat if Bruce has been visiting him in Arkham. Keep in mind this movie is 18 months into his career. That's around the time for TDK to take place. Lots of things have already happened

I love this!

 

[emielaen]

I want to see a legitimately scary and mentally ill Harvey who has no choice but to obey the impulses of his Big Bad Harv persona.

Si.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

I want the whole Eyes Wide Shut/Illuminati meets Batman storyline that the Court of Owls provides, but it’s very tempting to consolidate elements of the League of Shadows, the Court of Owls, the Black Glove, and the Order of St Dumas. I think it would be cool if the Talons were resurrected using Lazarus Pits.

 

[shauner111]

I want the whole Eyes Wide Shut/Illuminati meets Batman storyline that the Court of Owls provides, but it’s very tempting to consolidate elements of the League of Shadows, the Court of Owls, the Black Glove, and the Order of St Dumas. I think it would be cool if the Talons were resurrected using Lazarus Pits.

As much as I’d freak if I saw them, I can wait. Something about getting a BTAS or Arkham VG rogues gallery has me giddier rn.

 

[Rick190293]

I'd like Bruce and Harvey being friends since the first movie. Loved their dynamic in TAS and Telltale game. It'd be similar to Peter/Harry in the Raimi Spidey trilogy. Second movie he'd be scarred, 3rd movie full villain tying with Robin's origin.
Still think there are more unused villains that should have a chance, but there's so much posibilities with Two-Face, as he was barely touched in live-action.

 

[Art Vandelay]

I think what really bothers people is there's too many cringe takes on the Joker in recent times

I just don't want a Joker who is always pleased with himself. I see those Joker cosplayers, or fan films, and think "This is so lame". It's what I respected Heath for, he was able to make the Joker feel threatening without it feeling campy. As iconic as BTAS Joker is, I've come to realize I don't want a live version of that.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Joker should be saved till the third flick imo. Reference him in here or there etc/build up to him, but having him be the main bad guy in the second after Riddler is kinda eh to me. Dent being the entire bad guy for the second makes much more sense to me. I like the version we got in TDK, but there is a lot of room to improve on after 12-13 years since.

 

[Invader Joker]

I do not want to see Harvey’s fall again. Unless it’s entirely reimagined from the ground up, it’s TDK again. Having a full formed Two-Face show up would be a ok with me though.

I think the only way seeing that again could be interesting is if they did it in the GCPD show, otherwise in a movie it's gonna feel very repetitive.