DC Films The DC Studios News and Discussion Thread

[Boom]

I want Superman to have a strongman physique. Similar to Hardy in TDKR.

Built like an ox.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

The Kill Bill quote says more about Bill than it does about Clark Kent. That is NOT the way to approach the character, especially if you want audiences to connect with him. That’s just not who he is at all, imo.

Indeed. Tis specious BS.

 

[BarryLyndon]

What I meant is in a more optimistic way, not the direct quote but putting a message behind Clark Kent characterization :

He sees human as flawed, not perfect but with good intentions and full of hope that makes error, you don't have to look at it as making fun of the human, it's more about making a vulnerable character that tries to fit in while hiding that he's the strongest human on earth.

And for the muscle, sure I agree he has to be tall, imposing, I just don't like the stereotype of the DCEU having everyone being ultra good looking people with impossible shape.

In the end It's not just about the look but about what you want to say and how you show it. Michael Keaton is sadly cliché but a good reference for that, even Robert Downey Jr.

I wasn't clear so that's my bad, but in the end all I want is a good Clark Kent that do differentiate itself from the Superman attitude in a more clever and funny way and with a good actor before anybody that fits the part.

If there is no contrast between the two then what's the point and the meaning behind him?
Routh's Clark wasn't funny, Cavill was the same and I do think it's time for a change.

 

[flickchick85]

What too many people miss is that Clark IS vulnerable, he isn't perfect at everything, he has to try just as hard to get in his boss's good graces as anyone else, he has to try just as hard to get his crush to notice him as anyone else, he gets one-upped for stories by co-workers and rivals all the time, and he is a modest, humble, square and dorky kid who had a sheltered childhood on a farm. He's not "cool." He doesn't have to act any of that. That's who he is. And due to trying to hide his powers, he can seem uncomfortable in his own skin when he's surrounded by people who don't know. Again, that's not an act. At most, he would deliberately change his posture and demeanor, but Clark Kent does not need to be a performance, and it really hasn't been that way in comics in over 30 years. Clark Kent is who he is when he's grabbing a beer with Jimmy after work or going to a baseball game with friends/co-workers...Clark Kent is who he is for 80% of his existence. He has to be able to be genuine with those people for the character to connect, imo. That's why I hate the Silver Age take that the Donner version sprung from.

To me, the ideal way to play it is that Superman is also a big dork, just more confident and relaxed because he doesn't have to hide his abilities - people just miss his inherent dorkiness because they're too in awe of his god-like feats. And Clark can have a natural "bull in a china shop" quality whenever he's not Superman and finds himself surrounded by people in a bustling Metropolis, because he's constantly having to keep his powers in check with every step. Living in a "world of cardboard" can have that effect. The only "act" Clark should be putting on is the act of hiding his powers, imo. The other differences should come naturally out of that, without him even having to put in any effort. Tyler Hoechlin nails this on Superman & Lois, imo. That's the perfect blueprint for a modern characterization, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[BarryLyndon]

Plus he's supposed to be young according to James Gunn, he may well be in awe of metropolis, hasn't really went anywhere in the world.

He's not going to be the superhero everyone knows globally I think. Just someone learning to be a hero while trying to live a normal life in the big city.

But yeah you're right, Clark isn't an act, it's his human part, his power is where the act is. But also making Clark more awkward and vulnerable only regress the possibility of him being Superman. I mean, that is the ultimate question in the end, how can no one recognize that both are the same?

This is where the acting comes in and that is why you need someone good at the start, not just looking the part.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I mean, that is the ultimate question in the end, how can no one recognize that both are the same?

This is where the acting comes in and that is why you need someone good at the start, not just looking the part.

Christopher Reeve actually makes you believe that with the glasses and the change in posture/body language the majority wouldn't recognise him as Superman.

 

[BarryLyndon]

I also think his morality and education can influence his approach of his power.

I mean I said in the other thread that it's not because you can that you should. He could know who Batman is but doesn't by respect, he doesn't listen to private conversation when it's not a threat, etc.

 

[Sithborg]

What I meant is in a more optimistic way, not the direct quote but putting a message behind Clark Kent characterization :

He sees human as flawed, not perfect but with good intentions and full of hope that makes error, you don't have to look at it as making fun of the human, it's more about making a vulnerable character that tries to fit in while hiding that he's the strongest human on earth.

The problem here is that you are separating him from humanity. I mean, lets ignore the right wing talking points about how refugees don't acclimate, and how him being an alien means he is only pretending to fit in among humans, when he was raised among humans and been among them his whole life.

That quote is emblematic of the whole "Superman is a god among men" idea way too many creators have. And they try to separate him from humanity, which is just stupid. I mean, look at Snyder's libertarian messiahanic take.

 

[BarryLyndon]

The problem here is that you are separating him from humanity. I mean, lets ignore the right wing talking points about how refugees don't acclimate, and how him being an alien means he is only pretending to fit in among humans, when he was raised among humans and been among them his whole life.

That quote is emblematic of the whole "Superman is a god among men" idea way too many creators have. And they try to separate him from humanity, which is just stupid. I mean, look at Snyder's libertarian messiahanic take.

I'm talking about his power though, like, yes he's half human in terms of education and his way of living life but he also has to hide the fact that he's the strongest on earth. It should influence the way he is as a human who tries to fit in the big city of metropolis. He is from a rural area with nothing but his morality given to him by his parents.

It sure is an interesting psychology behind the character that can be explored in more depth and meaning.

(Also the aspect of how Clark represent the world is more of a second layer type of reflexion, to give meaning to the movie apart from it being a superhero flick with no layers)

 

[flickchick85]

I think it's just important to keep in mind that while WE see him as this other, superior being, HE never does. He's just Clark from Smallville in his own eyes, trying to be a "good neighbor" like his parents taught him, to the best of his abilities. His abilities just extend to a much larger scope than most lol.

 

[BarryLyndon]

There's so much ways you can do this character, as long as we humanize him while getting two different persona for Clark and Superman I'm in.

Even if he's learning to be Superman, you can still have him try to be really different from Clark with the boyscout attitude, while not necessarily nailing it at first, which could be funny.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

This time around I never wanna see Clark talking about humanity as being separate from himself, the same way you would never hear that kind of talk in a Spider-Man movie or Ms Marvel or whatever.

As for characterisation I’d prefer they write it so Clark is naturally a dork, not pretending, and donning the cape just naturally allows his insecurities to fade away because he’s “special” and good at being Superman, and there’s no point of comparison for what he’s doing (not yet), so he naturally has the luxury of feeling like the biggest man on campus, whereas Clark in real life perhaps doesn’t have much going for him.

What would be interesting to me is to see how Clark can learn to take action in his passions/career and love life to feel more like Superman in his real life.

 

[Lily Adler]

This time around I never wanna see Clark talking about humanity as being separate from himself, the same way you would never hear that kind of talk in a Spider-Man movie or Ms Marvel or whatever.

As for characterisation I’d prefer they write it so Clark is naturally a dork, not pretending, and donning the cape just naturally allows his insecurities to fade away because he’s “special” and good at being Superman, and there’s no point of comparison for what he’s doing (not yet), so he naturally has the luxury of feeling like the biggest man on campus, whereas Clark in real life perhaps doesn’t have much going for him.

What would be interesting to me is to see how Clark can learn to take action in his passions/career and love life to feel more like Superman in his real life.

Can we extend that to Jor-El talking as if Kal-El will evolve humanity like a Kryptonian Jesus?

 

[GreenKToo]

What Invader Joker said is exactly right.

Super jacked isn't the answer, plus if Clark is awkward it would be weird to cast someone who is as good looking as Henry Cavill for exemple.

I think the actor has to have charisma for sure, but as Clark, he has to be able to look nothing like superman and even a bit ugly.

Like Reeves did in the 80s but in a less campy way.

In kill bill Vol.2 Bill says at the end :

Clark Kent is how Superman views us. And what are the characteristics of Clark Kent. He's weak... he's unsure of himself... Clark Kent is Superman's critique on the whole human race.​

This could be a great approach, Clark should be insecure, awkward but full of good intentions because it's his disguise! The one thing people forget about that aspect is, if we have a good Clark, we will be a lot more invested in the story and the action when Superman comes and it will really elevate the excitement.

For me there are three personas of CK.

The public and somewhat shy and awkward Clark ( disguise #1 )

The Hero Superman ( disguise #2 )

And Clark on the farm, who is the real person imo.
He doesn't walk around in his superman suit while there, nor does he have to act shy or dorky or wear his glasses.
He can be himself.

 

[Nemeres]

I like the idea of Clark not being at all caught up in his alien heritage and rather being a fan of humanity, to the point of extreme admiration and even benign jealousy.

He'd have grown up looking up to people like Newton, Mandela, MLK, Keller, first responders, etc, and feel compelled to contribute just as much. He'd want nothing more than to feel like part of the group -- but would always feel like being able to lift a cargo ship over his head ain't **** compared to intellect-based human contributions. Not only bc he wants to belong, but because humans are f-ing cool.

Which (and this is a character flaw) would initially justify an extreme need for acceptance. The awareness that he's a guest here, that "they" set the rules, and is therefore willing to bend over backwards to dispel fears and make them cool about his presence on Earth. Interviews, friendliness, pulling cats down from trees. Anything to destroy the perception of him as a larger-than-life god.

 

[Still Wynning]

What too many people miss is that Clark IS vulnerable, he isn't perfect at everything, he has to try just as hard to get in his boss's good graces as anyone else, he has to try just as hard to get his crush to notice him as anyone else, he gets one-upped for stories by co-workers and rivals all the time, and he is a modest, humble, square and dorky kid who had a sheltered childhood on a farm. He's not "cool." He doesn't have to act any of that. That's who he is. And due to trying to hide his powers, he can seem uncomfortable in his own skin when he's surrounded by people who don't know. Again, that's not an act. At most, he would deliberately change his posture and demeanor, but Clark Kent does not need to be a performance, and it really hasn't been that way in comics in over 30 years. Clark Kent is who he is when he's grabbing a beer with Jimmy after work or going to a baseball game with friends/co-workers...Clark Kent is who he is for 80% of his existence. He has to be able to be genuine with those people for the character to connect, imo. That's why I hate the Silver Age take that the Donner version sprung from.

To me, the ideal way to play it is that Superman is also a big dork, just more confident and relaxed because he doesn't have to hide his abilities - people just miss his inherent dorkiness because they're too in awe of his god-like feats. And Clark can have a natural "bull in a china shop" quality whenever he's not Superman and finds himself surrounded by people in a bustling Metropolis, because he's constantly having to keep his powers in check with every step. Living in a "world of cardboard" can have that effect. The only "act" Clark should be putting on is the act of hiding his powers, imo. The other differences should come naturally out of that, without him even having to put in any effort. Tyler Hoechlin nails this on Superman & Lois, imo. That's the perfect blueprint for a modern characterization, as far as I'm concerned.

The way I see it, he basically just weaponizes his natural dorkiness, just to two opposite extremes. As Clark, he overexaggerates it to deflect suspicion. As Superman, he wears it proudly as a badge of honor to purposefully draw attention to himself. That’s the distinction that helps to separate the two identities and makes it even more believable why no one thinks twice of both as the same person.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

The Kill Bill quote says more about Bill than it does about Clark Kent. That is NOT the way to approach the character, especially if you want audiences to connect with him. That’s just not who he is at all, imo.

Reminds me of the exchange between Superman and Hawkgirl in that episode of Justice League:

Clark gets his true strength from humanity. He is far from the ''strange visitor from space'' mocking mankind that the quote from Kill Bill wants us to believe.

 

[Frodo]

For me there are three personas of CK.

The public and somewhat shy and awkward Clark ( disguise #1 )

The Hero Superman ( disguise #2 )

And Clark on the farm, who is the real person imo.
He doesn't walk around in his superman suit while there, nor does he have to act shy or dorky or wear his glasses.
He can be himself.

That's the way I see it as well.
I suggested this years ago on one of these forums, and that notion trigged a poster.

That's actually the approach Superman and Lois tends to take.

There's the public / Coach/ Dad jokes, Clark who's a nice guy

There's the hero , the symbol, the world figure, Superman

Then there's the Clark who Lois, Jordan, and Jonathan know , which he's the father, the husband, and partner .

 

[Iceman]

Superman is an alien that gets his powers from the sun, muscles are irrelevant for him as long as he can look fine in the suit. There's never been any reason for him to be mega-jacked.

This is 100% true, but also applies to him being tall or being in shape at all - could just as easily be 25 stone or beanpole skinny or Danny Devito size and shape. Superman doesn’t need the height and reach advantage when he can fly at superspeed lol. All these things are merely part of different people’s preferred aesthetic. There’s no reason people with superpowers need to look a certain way as the super power itself is the cheat mode rendering all traditional signs of fitness and ability to fight irrelevant.

 

[GreenKToo]

Honestly, he could be 5'5 and 90 lbs and still be able to lift a cargo ship over his head, but that wouldn't sell tickets.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

No one is saying Superman should be actively skinny or not have the classic Superman look. Obviously the actor should get in shape, he just doesn't need to look absurd like most of the MCU guys do.

More realistically and naturally strong and athletic looking is perfectly fine - again, like Christopher Reeve was. Reeve looked super strong and fit.

 

[Iceman]

Honestly, he could be 5'5 and 90 lbs and still be able to lift a cargo ship over his head, but that wouldn't sell tickets.

Could be quite entertaining to see that though.

 

[Frodo]

Could be quite entertaining to see that though.

 

[BarryLyndon]

Let's not forget one of Superman's power that also puts him above every human : his mental powers.

I was looking on the web and this is how it's described :

Mental Powers: Superman possessed genius-level intelligence and an eidetic memory. These enhanced mental capabilities were a direct result of his exposure to a yellow sun, as evidenced by the depiction of Superman's dog, Krypto. While under a yellow sun, Krypto's intelligence was boosted to that of a typical human.
​

If we put this into account, school or learning wasn't hard for him, he basically has to downgrade himself and hide his mental skills to erase any suspicion. So Clark being dorky should be a disguise.

I'm not saying he's above us, on the contrary, while having all those advantages, he'll still be impressed by humanity and how it made him the person he his. This could be why for him the world is worth saving.

 

[Batgirl0202]

I personally don't want a grossly physically imposing Superman. Sure he should be fit and able to fill out the suit, but a 6'6" 300 lbs Clark has never sat right with me.

I agree with the general consensus that Clark being depicted as human first and an alien second should be the focus. His Kansas upbringing should be what resonates with him the most, so he shouldn't have to 'pretend' to be human. It should come naturally to him, just as his decency and morality should be natural extensions of his psychological makeup, not affections to hide his 'otherness'.

His physicality matters less to me because his powers can be explained by the sun and Earth's lighter gravity. Clark shouldn't have to 'act' human; his humanity should come naturally to him. And Superman's heroics and natural 'Boy Scout' persona should be a logical result of the decency and morality his parents and upbringing instilled within him.

A competent actor should be able to capture this dichotomy, and Cavill wasn't that actor as far as I'm concerned.