The Flash The Flash Season 2 Episode 8: "Legends of Today"

[Mikelus]

From a tv.com review:

...explaining past lives and ancient feuds isn't exactly something that can be elegantly done, and "Legends of Today" really fell victim to that. For starters, Barry's whole rationale for wanting to ask Oliver for help was pretty flimsy, and it basically amounted to "I just have this feeling." And, hey, good for Barry for following his instincts, but as Oliver got all Oliver-y about, Barry also didn't do a lot of due diligence before heading to Star City and revealing the identities of the Green Arrow, Speedy, and... whatever Diggle's codename is (Is it Spartan? Is that a thing that's sticking?) to a relative stranger. But Barry can be a little dumb and eager, and that's Barry. It's partially why we like Barry. It was still a weak narrative excuse to see Oliver, but at least it was grounded in a character trait.

The real bit that irked me, however, was Malcolm Merlyn appearing from out of nowhere not once but twice to basically fill in some quick narrative gaps for our heroes. I get that as the new Ra's al Ghul Malcolm is the narrative conduit through which greater things about the world can flow, but sheesh, this was a bit much. The episode can joke as much as it wants about Malcolm showing up from the shadows to deliver exposition, but it's still pretty lazy. It felt doubly lazy after Carter Hall showed up with a bunch of answers, but at least he had a reason for being in Star City given Kendra also being there. Malcolm's reason for being there was just to spout out information like he's Messenger No. 2 in a Shakespeare play.

Like I acknowledged, it was a lot to explain, and so it was never going to be particularly well-done—and this is also just one of those bad things that happens to Part 1 in two-parters; Part 1 does all the legwork and Part 2 gets to have a lot of fun—but given everything, I feel like the guy who can grow/materialize wings (seriously: where do those wings go?) might be a little more trustworthy than the consummate liar and schemer. And at least Carter can speak with more authority on the Vandal Savage topic than Malcolm can.

http://www.tv.com/shows/the-flash-2...isode-8-legends-of-today-review-144873445779/

I agree, the episode was too clunky, and this thing of anyone entering the Arrow cave or Star Labs is too lazy and convenient. Smallville did the same crap with everyone entering the Luthor mansion despite Lex's security. They should have an alarm or something, but whatever. The Hawks and Vandal Savage were the best part IMO, hopefully the characters will be written well and get the development they deserve on LoT.

 

[Mikelus]

I guess once you know the secret identities of the entire Arrow team, it's not hard to narrow down the secret location, by simply having someone constantly follow them. I'm still surprised that Darhk doesn't know that Laurel is Buckles, since she's being shadowed.

The fact that Damien still doesn't know Oliver is GA despite his connections with the LoA and beyond, doesn't make any sense, he should've known from the start.

 

[Travesty]

I just got done with the Arrow episode, and I enjoyed it a LOT more than last nights episode.

 

[Rowen]

This episode was pretty awesome. I can't wait to see more

 

[zenith16]

For those familiar with the lore, how accurate is this Savage? I pretty much only know him from the JLU Episodes and from Young Justice. There I got the impression he's just an immortal person and that's it. No Mystical background or anything.

[YT]qxMQplkscNA[/YT]

alright here's the deal with the one on the flarrow verse and thank you tacit for the video. this version of vandal savage is a mix of vandal savage and another character pretty much like how damien dark is a mix of Damien darhk and brother blood.

but with save the part they have right is that he is immortal and he is obsess with blades and his victims when he kills do empower him but the catch is they have to be related to him be they off spring or decendents in the books it was that roy harper and his kid leann are related to him so people from the harper blood are some of the people he's hunt to empower him self. his history however is that his from the cave man and cromag era not egypt. and the reason that vandal savage is an immortal is due to an meteorite or some times Astoriod rock ( it wasn't Nth meta)l is was more similar to kriptonite

Vandal would also help empire's of evil sprout up and move on to the next, he has only helped dictators and he helped Ras al ghoel in some version's of the DCU Multiverse's but had falling out's. both are immortal meta human's.


now here's other half they mixed him with the hawkman and woman/ girl's enemy called Hath Set that's the one that was killing the hawk heroes over and over repeatedly or tried to he wasn't successful each era. the reason the hawks were re incarnating was due to the Nth metal in their wings which was tech based and Hath set was doing the same . the difference here is that the hawks were from another planet and crash landed in Egypt and they created an empire there in egypt and in one of their many lives they were known as detectives fallowing that .

.

On the STAR Labs side of things it was cool seeing Caitlin and Harry progressing things together on the Zoom front, but that place is even less secure than the Arrow base, Patty is going to have to be in on things soon.

Looking forward to part 2.

The Arrow lair in season 4 is a completely different location than the one in the past seasons. So how did Malcolm know where it is?

I guess once you know the secret identities of the entire Arrow team, it's not hard to narrow down the secret location, by simply having someone constantly follow them. I'm still surprised that Darhk doesn't know that Laurel is Buckles, since she's being shadowed.

Seems pretty accurate to me so far outside of being tied to Hawkman and Hawkgirl

Seems pretty accurate to me so far outside of being tied to Hawkman and Hawkgirl

yeah as I said the main enemy of the hawk heroes is a character called half set

as to the stuff I high lite in red from you all I said something about this in page :2
post: #50 I bolded what I said in this quote below but the red highlite was there since yesterday.

tonight was an interesting one sadly cisco made the mistake of outing barryjust like winn in super girl or james (these shows need to cross over) it's become too common now. barry should just out him self next season and not bother with a normal house. lol


I laughed when hawk girl saw vandal savage coming for all of them through the window in felicity's and Oliver's apartment building . I don't know why it never occurred to them that they should have special armored window's with what happened to thea etc. or why they thought they wouldn't be attacked there ever?

but sadly the most scary part happened yet again in the Arrow bunker Malcolm got in uninvited twice "Twice" what happen to the freaking biometric security system that thea made fun of Oliver about even knowing how spell that word, felicity?

how did Malcolm freaking hear about all this in the first place and so fast?
and sadly I knew shyeria would be kidnapped the when she said she wanted some air.

well it was by Hawk man at least.


the coolest parts were the fight scenes with Hawk man versus the flash and green arrow and what thea did in the apartment. Especially since vandal knows who they all are now. she tried to kill vandal at least. that count's as reason to kill him I'm afraid since one of their homes was invaded and they were all nearly killed.

Hell seeing she immortal now due to the pit she most likely the only one that can truly take on savage. take him out thea high lander style.



well Oliver has noticed his kid. I wonder if his little boy was named after Robert Queen the one shadow supposedly had in the comic's that Oliver lost? we all know that boy isn't Conner Hawk now.

I'm sorry hunter the arrow lair's(mutiple) security has been far worse. and as you said barry spoke for us all. for crying out load it was a biometric security system how'd Malcolm get in there yet, when captain lance came the first time felicity was on the computer facing door and notice right away when captain lance entered the room?

 

[zenith16]

Oh BTW this is Hath-Set.

Details are in hawkman's profile
Carter Hall
New Earth
1985 - 2011
but I have some of the books and found this guys name

 

[Batsfan1]

Not really. I mean he was a little more animated but not a completely different character.

We've barely seen him laugh on Arrow. Here he's a giggly maniac.

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[X-Ray]

It was alright. The biggest problem I had was how quick and forced it felt for Team Flash to turn to Team Arrow. One quick encounter with an unknown man they know nothing about and they quickly conclude that he's a mythical being and it's time to go hide in Star City.

 

[Avenging Angel]

I preferred part 2 to this one. But part one still had some decent moments. The show should focus more than main story lines instead of crossovers, unless it's the justice league forming, then it's not a big deal. I'd like to see less filler and origins propping and more focus on developing the characters.

 

[haephestus]

It was fun, but VERY clunky. I did prefer it to Part 2 though.

I'd like to see a future cross-over which didn't have to have special appearances by such a huge range of characters and which didn't have to devote a lot of time to exposition to introduce a number of characters with relatively complex and "unique" (at least for the current DC TV universe) origin stories.

 

[rashad]

Great episode. It was alot of fun and well paced with great action. I love when Team Arrow and Team Flash get together. The benefit of watching both episodes without commercials made it seamless.

 

[Headliner]

Still not a fan. Not a fan that they wasted a week of Flash's storyline for a spin off show that I'm probably not going to enjoy. Just wasn't in it at all and the ancient Egypt storyline is lame to me.

Harrison getting shot was interesting. I wonder how that will effect Barry and Patti's relationship.

 

[Guard82]

It was especially awesome when Barry threw lightning in this episode. That was really nice to see, along with all the other fun stuff going on.

 

[Whatupman]

Ugh, what a terrible episode. I really hope the writing gets better, otherwise I will have to drop it, like I did Arrow.

 

[Bathead]

Ugh, what a terrible episode. I really hope the writing gets better, otherwise I will have to drop it, like I did Arrow.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion but ...
Terrible?
Really?
Sorry, but I think you are way off on this.

 

[signalman]

Crossover Part 1 was very well done. Very exciting. B+

The actor playing Vandal Savage is as perfect as one could get.

Like the wings/flying effects for the Hawks.
Glad they used the Egyptian origin story.

Just cool seeing both Flash and Arrow hanging out together with their supporting cast.

 

[Whatupman]

Well, you are entitled to your opinion but ...
Terrible?
Really?
Sorry, but I think you are way off on this.

I just thought the writing was quite bad. The reason for Barry to go to Oliver felt really forced. It was like the writers wanted the characters to crossover so they just went with it, even if it didn't make any sense. And that Patty saw Wells was awfully convenient. As was Cisco just blurting out The Flash's identity. Yes, because it's the first time The Flash has saved him ... Really forced writing. And people can still go into STAR labs whenever they want, like Patty? Don't the people working there ever learn?

And then we have Garrick who says that the serum to make him faster won't ever work, then he takes it, and it works, but he still doesn't want it. Even though he has been going on about how he wants his speed back.

Then on the Arrow side we have Malcom who randomly shows up to deliver exposition. Twice! And why did Oliver and company reveal their identities to someone they have never met before? Also, I still can't buy Willa Holland kicking anyone's ass. Sorry, rant over.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Is anyone else feeling that the writing for this season of The Flash in general is a little....underdeveloped?

None of the episodes have been flat out bad, but this past ep was a perfect example of good ideas that weren't executed well. For example:

Set up Wells and Jay to disagree over a possibly dangerous experiment to Barry---Nice idea...except they never actually bother to tell us why this experiment could be dangerous. Jay even takes the damn thing with NO friggin side effects. So his insistence at the end of the episode that they still not use it made zero sense.

Barry and Oliver's banter: "You're listening to me now?" "This is your city." It's fun...except we never see them not listen to one another. In fact, they work together very well the entire episode.

Those are just a few examples, but I've been noticing things like that more and more often this season. Interesting ideas that are executed either poorly or in a very lazy way.

 

[Paradox1]

Is anyone else feeling that the writing for this season of The Flash in general is a little....underdeveloped?

None of the episodes have been flat out bad, but this past ep was a perfect example of good ideas that weren't executed well. For example:

Set up Wells and Jay to disagree over a possibly dangerous experiment to Barry---Nice idea...except they never actually bother to tell us why this experiment could be dangerous. Jay even takes the damn thing with NO friggin side effects. So his insistence at the end of the episode that they still not use it made zero sense.

Barry and Oliver's banter: "You're listening to me now?" "This is your city." It's fun...except we never see them not listen to one another. In fact, they work together very well the entire episode.

Those are just a few examples, but I've been noticing things like that more and more often this season. Interesting ideas that are executed either poorly or in a very lazy way.

The Barry and Oliver line at least is a reference to last years crossover conflict.

 

[Whatupman]

Is anyone else feeling that the writing for this season of The Flash in general is a little....underdeveloped?

None of the episodes have been flat out bad, but this past ep was a perfect example of good ideas that weren't executed well. For example:

Set up Wells and Jay to disagree over a possibly dangerous experiment to Barry---Nice idea...except they never actually bother to tell us why this experiment could be dangerous. Jay even takes the damn thing with NO friggin side effects. So his insistence at the end of the episode that they still not use it made zero sense.

Barry and Oliver's banter: "You're listening to me now?" "This is your city." It's fun...except we never see them not listen to one another. In fact, they work together very well the entire episode.

Those are just a few examples, but I've been noticing things like that more and more often this season. Interesting ideas that are executed either poorly or in a very lazy way.

Yeah, I agree that the writing is just not up to par. Hopefully it will get better.

 

[Infinity9999x]

The Barry and Oliver line at least is a reference to last years crossover conflict.

I don't think so. That's over a year old and all that conflict is behind them. Didn't make sense.

Secondly, it's bad writing from a technical aspect. You don't reference events from a year ago in the series unless it's a major event. It was vague, and attempting to build funny banter, but didn't earn it. It just wasn't well done.

This example is a smaller one, but it's the kind of stuff that's been going on this season. And unfortunately, it's the same kind of thing that Arrow's been doing since S3. And still in this season as well.

 

[Avenging Angel]

Devoting two episodes to LOT? I don't think that was necessary. Even Barry's origins in Arrow lasted, what, 20 minutes? Couldn't the writers have saved the origins for these characters in their own show? It didn't need to be stretched out. The flashbacks weren't needed. I felt like I was watching Titanic.

 

[Batmannerism]

Not bad. I always enjoy Barry and Ollie's interactions. They have good chemistry - as do their respective teams.

Can't say I'm really a fan of Hawkman/Hawkgirl, but oh well.

Generally, I'd say it was the weakest crossover episode so far - haven't seen part 2 on Arrow - but all in all still pretty good.


A solid 7/10.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Finally got around to seeing this and...

I'm sorry but the bloom is getting to be off the rose with me with this show and it was in season one, my favorite DCTVU show, even if I did think it was subpar to CONSTANTINE and GOTHAM (Yeah... What can I say... I'm a sucker for INTERESTING writing and acting and think fanboy complaints are immaterial as to the quality of the show. No one watching GOTHAM as a regular viewer gives a crap about your complaint that there is too much "wink-wink, nudge-nudge" about where we as fans know the characters are going. Also, both those shows had/have overall better casts, better guest stars and better production values than the Berlanti shows. Flash may have some great VFX shots for tv but the rest is pretty pedestrian and underwhelming in terms of production values).

This episode though... This writing is all so forced and lazy, no matter that I generally like most of the cast (most notable by her lack of making much of an impact at all... Iris. Did anyone notice that? She didn't do much and NOBODY CARES. That says something I think) the lackluster writing keeps killing the enthusiasm I used to have for the series. And I know it's a crossover episode but I think in general that the Berlanti formula is now grating to me on multiple levels and having to deal with DOUBLE the dose turned me off for the most part. We have ostensibly a hero team up, but the way the shows are constucted, it's really Hero TEAMS teaming up and sorry... You got 45 minutes with commercials to tell this story and everything feels rushed and shoehorned in. Savage came across fine visually and I guess the actor was ok but c'mon... He was barely developed at all outside of exposition about him. And why? Because instead of having just Barry bring Kendra to Oliver, which was thin anyway, we have to spend time with a meet and greet between the teams and cross talk with them. This should have just been Barry and Ollie dealing with things and then you have the breathing room to do more than just go through the motions, but no, you have to include and juggle SEVEN characters in the main plot, a villain, a villain guest star... No... TWO villain guest stars and Snow, Wells, Patty and Joe in a sub plot THAT WENT NOWHERE. Seriously, this show needs to stop with the useless arcs all the time that add nothing much at all. This was Cisco hiding his powers all over again, or Barry's paralysis. BS drama injected that is wrapped up in an episode or two which goes no place. This is the problem with Berlanti seeming to insist on these huge casts. The writers seem unable to put anyone on the backburner and so create "busy work" story lines. In all honesty, Green Arrow is a character in this day and age in which you probably do have to have a support staff for and it's interesting to have all kinds of characters to play off of... Okay, I get that. But The Flash? Yeah, there was never a need for THIS big of a supporting cast, and there certainly isn't a reason to have to shoe horn them in all the time.

Everything this week just fell flat for me and usually I at least enjoy something on the show. This time... Zilch. I didn't by the actress playing Kendra in the least. She was very un-engaging as frankly was the actor that played Carter. The dialog was particularly poor this week. The "find the hero within" BS is so often done on this show I think that to save time Barry should just carry around some index cards filled with inspirational quotes to cut out the middle man and save time. Just read them or hand them out when necessary. The show could shave about 10 to 15 minutes each week.

Once again, there is NO threat from the villain, ala E2 Doctor Light. At least, it makes little sense in terms of how they presented the villain and had him attack Barry. There is no reason Barry couldn't just run up to Savage and bonk him on the head, and he had multiple occasions to do it. Once again, in the presence of Oliver, Barry becomes an idiot instead of a methodical hero that should be used to thoroughness of execution given the field he works in as a scientist.

Sorry... I am really getting tired of Berlanti's teams extremely lazy approach to the characters and stories.

 

[the dmg]

Cross-posting this in both threads for Arrow/Flash:

This felt like it could have been a three or four parter given the amount of material they crammed in each one, and because of that, I think it felt pretty rushed, as good as the actual episodes were. Vandal Savage was well done, Carter Hall was a ******** (as he should be), the scene where the world is literally crumbling while Barry was traveling back in time was a great visual.

If it had more time to breathe, I would have enjoyed this more.