Joker "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

[hellblazer103]

I love the part after this where he's smiling watching them as they're like "OPEN THE ****IN DOOOOR"

 

[HBarnill]

100% deserving of the Oscars.

 

[Nardz937]

This marks that it's also been a year since I've been at a cinema.

This movie was such a fun time last October with all the hype and buzz. Not to mention the medias failed sabotage attempts

 

[Schlosser85]

I love the part after this where he's smiling watching them as they're like "OPEN THE ****IN DOOOOR"

 

[Rorschach2012]

It feels sacrilegious to say but I really think he is the best Joker. I love Heath and Jack, but Joaquin’s performance is my favorite performance of any character in any movie.

 

[Arachnerd]

Film Twitter is on your doorstep with pitchforks and torches as we speak.

 

[Neil McCauley]

Yeah, still a top 5 CBM.

No idea why critics were too harsh and divisive to this film and then could give a pass to average films like Shazam and Captain a Marvel.

this is the only film which has like 8 or 10 reviews with a 100/100 on metacritic yet a mixed rating. Really makes no sense.

Even freaking Incredible Hulk managed to get a positive critic rating.

Still a 9/10 for me.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Not my favorite, but IMO the best comic book movie for sure

 

[DarkKnight88]

No idea why critics were too harsh and divisive to this film and then could give a pass to average films like Shazam and Captain a Marvel.

this is the only film which has like 8 or 10 reviews with a 100/100 on metacritic yet a mixed rating.

Because critics don’t like to have their feelings questioned. They like when a film just reinforces their views. The greatest films are those that give a different viewpoint you don’t necessarily agree with but can still empathize with. They feel by recommending the film means they agree with the lead character and that’s not necessarily how movies work. The best ones are more complicated than that.

 

[MadVillainy]

Weird coincidene I didn't realize that it has been about a year to the date that this came out. I had the inclination to watch it so I bought the Blu Ray at Target last week and watched in on Saturday. Still holds up. Not one of my favorite CBMS/SH movies, but still very good

Because critics don’t like to have their feelings questioned. They like when a film just reinforces their views. The greatest films are those that give a different viewpoint you don’t necessarily agree with but can still empathize with. They feel by recommending the film means they agree with the lead character and that’s not necessarily how movies work. The best ones are more complicated than that.

To the bolded, I don't think that's a fair or accurate assessment at all. There's too much evidence to the contrary.
To name a few, critics love or at least very enjoy: The Sopranos, Pulp Fiction, Breaking Bad, Wolf of Wall Street, The Shield, Nightcrawler, The Irishman, Godfather, The Americans, There Will Be Blood, Good Time, Goodfellas, GoT (arguably if it counts as a villain protagonist show), IASIP, You...All of which are films or shows, newer or older, with villainous, POS leads. And again, that's just to name a few. If we did a deeper dive, we'd find way more pieces of media with villainous, unlikable, or morally ambiguous protagonists that are held in high regard.

Why critics didn't like this more? I'm not 100% sure. I think it might've been the politics of it. Critics are pretty notorious for liberal grandstanding. And I'm sure there were a lot who wanted to seem like they're "down" with the cause when it comes to being anti gun violence, incel, etc.
I mean as has been stated the whole discussion about the movie was weird because people were acting like this movie was breaking new ground when it came to violence. I remember Dan Murrell on ScreenJunkies, who did like the movie, acting like this movie was so disturbing and unsettling. Even members on here were acting like it's hyperviolent and disturbing. It's not worse than an episode of some of the things you see on FX.

Again I'm not sure why critics didn't like the film. But from I've seen the people who HATE it or really disliked it were all hyper political people or people who are inclined to virtue signal. SO that's my best guess

 

[Neil McCauley]

Because critics don’t like to have their feelings questioned. They like when a film just reinforces their views. The greatest films are those that give a different viewpoint you don’t necessarily agree with but can still empathize with. They feel by recommending the film means they agree with the lead character and that’s not necessarily how movies work. The best ones are more complicated than that.

Yeah I can agree with this. Anyways it got a lot of nominations and oscars and positive reviews on RT so no problem.

 

[MadVillainy]

But it's not factually true and the proof is there. You can look around and there are plenty of pieces of media with bad guy leads that are well regarded by critics

Edit: I mean you have a well regarded, well loved movie character who is the villain protagonist as your user name and prof pic. That's proof that critics don't hate to be challenged, only want to have their feelings reinforced, or dislike evil lead characters. That's just a weird critic conspiracy theory that is easily disproved

 

[HBarnill]

One thing I noticed rewatching it is how the citizens we see in the East Side (where Arthur lives) are filled with minorities. The script indicates this was intentional. I’m guessing they wanted a Baltimore feel for Gotham and to show how poorly the minorities are getting screwed over. If that was the case, I admire the subtlety of it.

 

[Schlosser85]

One thing I noticed rewatching it is how the citizens we see in the East Side (where Arthur lives) are filled with minorities. The script indicates this was intentional. I’m guessing they wanted a Baltimore feel for Gotham and to show how poorly the minorities are getting screwed over. If that was the case, I admire the subtly of it.

Also making it all the more BS how certain moral preeners like to make the baseless claim that the movie is "overtly racist" when race/racism isn't even a theme (except perhaps in unspoken subtext like you just described).

 

[TheFuture]

Yeah, still a top 5 CBM.

No idea why critics were too harsh and divisive to this film and then could give a pass to average films like Shazam and Captain a Marvel.

this is the only film which has like 8 or 10 reviews with a 100/100 on metacritic yet a mixed rating. Really makes no sense.

Even freaking Incredible Hulk managed to get a positive critic rating.

Still a 9/10 for me.

It was when identity politics was creeping into everything even film critique. If it was released in a post Coronavirus world I reckon that the reaction would have been much better.

Then again Tenet has proved these people haven't lost their appetite for a good old scapegoat.

 

[Schlosser85]

It was when identity politics was creeping into everything even film critique. If it was released in a post Coronavirus world I reckon that the reaction would have been much better.

Then again Tenet has proved these people haven't lost their appetite for a good old scapegoat.

I remember the asinine clickbait articles about how racist and sexist the movie supposedly is when those aren't themes at all.

 

[Neil McCauley]

It was when identity politics was creeping into everything even film critique. If it was released in a post Coronavirus world I reckon that the reaction would have been much better.

Then again Tenet has proved these people haven't lost their appetite for a good old scapegoat.

I understand about that, anyways still a great film with some stuff which is taken by the comic meanwhile the rest is an Elseworld story.

 

[HBarnill]

David Fincher was not a fan:

The director David Fincher has accused Hollywood of turning its back on innovative filmmaking, and claimed that studios are taking their creative cues from past glories while streaming services like Netflix push the medium forward.“I think that the studios are happy to say, ‘We’re going to spend $250 million on this, and $4 million on this, and leave everything in the middle to somebody else,’” he told the Telegraph, in an interview to be published tomorrow. “I think they’re happy to get that stuff off their plate. But I also think the middle-budget, challenging movies tend to define where the bigger movies are going to go.”

He suggested Warner Bros’ $1 billion-grossing supervillain origin story – whose star Joaquin Phoenix won the Best Actor Oscar earlier this year – as an example of a franchise-era studio product taking its creative cues from more original work.

“Nobody would have thought they had a shot at a giant hit with Joker had The Dark Knight not been as massive as it was [in 2008],” he said. “I don’t think anyone would have looked at that material and thought, ‘Yeah, let’s take Travis Bickle and Rupert Pupkin and conflate them, then trap him in a betrayal of the mentally ill, and trot it out for a billion dollars.’”

Travis Bickle and Rupert Pupkin are the protagonists of Martin Scorsese’s Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy – two classic films from the ‘New Hollywood’ era of the 1970s and 80s to which Joker has been widely compared. Both characters were played by Robert De Niro, who appeared in Joker as talk show host Murray Franklin.

“I'm sure that Warner Bros thought at a certain price, and with the right cast, and with De Niro coming along for the ride, it would be a possible double or triple,” he added. “But I cannot imagine that movie would have been released had it been 1999.”

 

[Closerframe]

David Fincher was not a fan:

I mean, he’s right, but I could literally argue the same thing about Logan. Although Joker is clearly a rip-off of Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy, most people who saw it have likely never seen those movies, so it was a great homage to those while also breaking new ground in the genre.

But I second what someone else mentioned about Phoenix being their favorite Joker. I think the fact that there is no Batman in this universe—yet—it makes him more terrifying.

 

[Micromind]

 

[Vaibow]

I mean, he’s right, but I could literally argue the same thing about Logan. Although Joker is clearly a rip-off of Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy, most people who saw it have likely never seen those movies, so it was a great homage to those while also breaking new ground in the genre.

But I second what someone else mentioned about Phoenix being their favorite Joker. I think the fact that there is no Batman in this universe—yet—it makes him more terrifying.

I had no idea it was such a lazy rip off, never seen the two afore mentioned movies... totally ruin it for me...

 

[Arachnerd]

...seriously? Finding out that it takes a lot of inspiration from those movies and crafts it into its own thing is enough to make you dislike it now?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I had no idea it was such a lazy rip off, never seen the two afore mentioned movies... totally ruin it for me...

You're REALLY not going to like learning about Hercules when it comes to Superman then.

Ditto Batman and the characters of the Shadow, Zorro or the Scarlet Pimpernel.

I also suppose Conrad Veidt inspiring Joker is a bridge too far as well.

 

[Vaibow]

You're REALLY not going to like learning about Hercules when it comes to Superman then.

Ditto Batman and the characters of the Shadow, Zorro or the Scarlet Pimpernel.

I also suppose Conrad Veidt inspiring Joker is a bridge too far as well.

Already knew about those... poor comparison really... but hey, keep being you.

 

[Wheels]

I mean, he’s right, but I could literally argue the same thing about Logan. Although Joker is clearly a rip-off of Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy, most people who saw it have likely never seen those movies, so it was a great homage to those while also breaking new ground in the genre.

But I second what someone else mentioned about Phoenix being their favorite Joker. I think the fact that there is no Batman in this universe—yet—it makes him more terrifying.

I wouldn't really dispute your argument against Logan either. I just find the Joker hype too much for me personally although I do enjoy it. I just feel like the Academy in particular is so obvious. It's clear why Joker "transcends". It's a phycological character piece that calls back to classic film. You can't just be a great movie, you kinda have to check boxes and fit a mould most of the time.