The Joker Thread - Part 1

[shauner111]

I really dont want even a smidge of Backstory, I don't want a drug dealer or a gang leader. I dont want previous ties to crime or a sad story, I want him to literally pop up out of nowhere, like imagine the Dark Knight type party scene as his introduction scene. That's what I want

So you want Heath Ledger?

 

[Eddie Dean]

If we get perma-white skin would you guys be into it being albinism? I feel if it's chemical perma-white, it should come with chemical burn scars as well... unless he has given himself perma white skin; skin bleaching is a very strange but absolutely real thing. If he is putting the makeup on, why not full transformation through his own means?

How about they don’t explain it?

 

[WatchProtect]

So you want Heath Ledger?

If he was clean, permawhite, no scars, brighter hair, shorter hair, and dressed classier then yeah sure

 

[thangaran]

What about if they create a sympathetic back story for the Joker; in that rather he just committing evil all the time, he does do some good as well. Kind of like a robin hood type. Batman tries his best to redeem him and Joker is always on the edge; sometimes doing good and sometimes bad. That would be a devastatingly interesting spin on the character and definitely something we’ve not seenbefore.

 

[WatchProtect]

Not even Joker himself as a gang leader?

I wouldn't mind if a gang looked up to him, but I don't want him having meetings like Penguin or something. This is a weird analogy but imagine Joker as the boogeyman In Nightmare Before Christmas, and his gang as the trick or treaters there.

 

[AndyTrevino]

What about if they create a sympathetic back story for the Joker; in that rather he just committing evil all the time, he does do some good as well. Kind of like a robin hood type. Batman tries his best to redeem him and Joker is always on the edge; sometimes doing good and sometimes bad. That would be a devastatingly interesting spin on the character and definitely something we’ve not seenbefore.

That just sounds like John Doe from the Telltale games. While that's not a bad thing, I just prefer the super evil characterization.

 

[AndyTrevino]

I wouldn't mind if a gang looked up to him, but I don't want him having meetings like Penguin or something. This is a weird analogy but imagine Joker as the boogeyman In Nightmare Before Christmas, and his gang as the trick or treaters there.

I don't think it's a weird analogy at all, but I don't mind Joker being more professional.

 

[Mindreaper21]

I really dont want even a smidge of Backstory, I don't want a drug dealer or a gang leader. I dont want previous ties to crime or a sad story, I want him to literally pop up out of nowhere, like imagine the Dark Knight type party scene as his introduction scene. That's what I want

I’m all the way with you on this one. I just want Joker to sort of slowly materialize. I want him to just be this strange pale figure that pops up in the background and just when things look like they are starting to get better, he strikes.

 

[shauner111]

If he was clean, permawhite, no scars, brighter hair, shorter hair, and dressed classier then yeah sure

So you just want Nicholson’s Joker but written like Heath’s. I’m sure Reeves will want to be more creative than that.

 

[WatchProtect]

So you just want Nicholson’s Joker but written like Heath’s. I’m sure Reeves will want to be more creative than that.

Awfully big assumptions to be made, if you look at my other posts I state pretty specially what I want. So no I dont "just" want that.

 

[Mindreaper21]

I do want the Glasgow smile back, but I want the scars to be neater and not jagged like Heath’s Joker. That really is one of the coolest things that was done with his character.

 

[AndyTrevino]

I don't need the scars to come back anytime soon.

 

[BigBatTheory]

My ideal Joker is a mix of a lot of what you guys are saying. Here's my sort of fan-ficky idea for how the Gotham Central show could set him up:

He should appear out of nowhere and really bring disorder to otherwise organized crime in Gotham. He starts out as Zero Year Red Hood in that sense. He is already perma-white due to albinism or just being naturally very pale but his face is never fully revealed. So you never truly see him before his Joker transformation. I imagine he has many names on the street that never quite stick: Mister Drop, The Pale Man, The Red Hood, etc. His Drop drug really shakes up the illicit drug market in Gotham, and it offers new levels of escape for the citizens and quickly becomes the hottest drug. Joker and his hooligans are the only ones dealing it, and they are mostly giving it away so nobody can compete with him at all. His goal isn't exactly to bring chaos to Gotham, but to deliver his own brand of happiness. When high on Drop you are prone to colorful hallucinations and manic fits of laughter/hysteria. Long term side effects result in muscle spasms in the face that present as uncomfortable grins. The hotness of the drug makes Joker a target of both the police and mafia families, who had long standing agreements. Eventually the cops or hired guns are able to get too Joker and torture him, trying to get him to tell them how to manufacture Drop, or some other details of the business. They torture him, whether it be scarring like a Glasgow smile, or burning him with chemicals, he scarred smile is formed. He of course just laughs it off until Batman ends up saving him, cementing the romantic aspect of their relationship in Joker's mind (Batman is truly his dark knight). Joker is now fully born as Batman removes the red hood from his head to reveal his scarred smile. Joker is imprisoned in Arkham where the movie picks up.

 

[AndyTrevino]

My ideal Joker is a mix of a lot of what you guys are saying. Here's my sort of fan-ficky idea for how the Gotham Central show could set him up:

He should appear out of nowhere and really bring disorder to otherwise organized crime in Gotham. He starts out as Zero Year Red Hood in that sense. He is already perma-white due to albinism or just being naturally very pale but his face is never fully revealed. So you never truly see him before his Joker transformation. I imagine he has many names on the street that never quite stick: Mister Drop, The Pale Man, The Red Hood, etc. His Drop drug really shakes up the illicit drug market in Gotham, and it offers new levels of escape for the citizens and quickly becomes the hottest drug. Joker and his hooligans are the only ones dealing it, and they are mostly giving it away so nobody can compete with him at all. His goal isn't exactly to bring chaos to Gotham, but to deliver his own brand of happiness. When high on Drop you are prone to colorful hallucinations and manic fits of laughter/hysteria. Long term side effects result in muscle spasms in the face that present as uncomfortable grins. The hotness of the drug makes Joker a target of both the police and mafia families, who had long standing agreements. Eventually the cops or hired guns are able to get too Joker and torture him, trying to get him to tell them how to manufacture Drop, or some other details of the business. They torture him, whether it be scarring like a Glasgow smile, or burning him with chemicals, he scarred smile is formed. He of course just laughs it off until Batman ends up saving him, cementing the romantic aspect of their relationship in Joker's mind (Batman is truly his dark knight). Joker is now fully born as Batman removes the red hood from his head to reveal his scarred smile. Joker is imprisoned in Arkham where the movie picks up.

I like the idea of Drops causing hysteria and involuntary, permanent grins as a side effect, but I think they should be lethal. I like the idea of his guys giving away the drug so that no one can compete with him at the top. Not a fan of the scarred smile or him looking more like The Joker from the start and stripping that away once he "falls in love" with Batman. So in that sense they can vaguely allude to the chemical bath while still having him look like an albino.

And as I've said before I really like the mysterious nicknames (Mr. Drop, The Pale Man, Red Hood/Red Hood One, etc).

 

[hellblazer103]

What about if they create a sympathetic back story for the Joker; in that rather he just committing evil all the time, he does do some good as well. Kind of like a robin hood type. Batman tries his best to redeem him and Joker is always on the edge; sometimes doing good and sometimes bad. That would be a devastatingly interesting spin on the character and definitely something we’ve not seenbefore.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Call me crazy but my ideal Joker would be a crazy guy with white skin, a big smile, purple suit and he loves to commit crimes.

 

[Captain Tired]

It'd never catch on.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Ewwww green hair? Purple suit? Lipstick? He's a MAN. Not some pansy. Ew.

 

[emielaen]

Call me crazy but my ideal Joker would be a crazy guy with white skin, a big smile, purple suit and he loves to commit crimes.

 

[Mindreaper21]

I have this theory I thought of last night while watching criminal minds. Let’s say this Joker does just suddenly materializes. I believe what would motivate him to appear is that he loved how corrupt, dirty and violent Gotham was, but when Batman comes along and stops criminals and save lives, Joker gets upset that Gotham is becoming less chaotic and that he must evolve and take drastic measures to bring that chaos back. So, it becomes a tug-o-war between Batman and Joker for the soul of Gotham. This way it’s not just some crazy guy that looks like a clown committing crimes for no reason. Just as Batman wants to clean up Gotham, Joker wants Gotham to be this wasteland paradise full of death and suffering.

It would be great to see or allude to Joker having a Bruce Wayne moment where Joker is sitting in front of a tv or thinking “this city is becoming too clean and hopeful. I have to do something about that. I have to become a symbol that good people fear and make them feel hopeless. A symbol of happiness that brings absolute dread”. Then, he sees a clown somehow and it clicks.

 

[AndyTrevino]

I have this theory I thought of last night while watching criminal minds. Let’s say this Joker does just suddenly materializes. I believe what would motivate him to appear is that he loved how corrupt, dirty and violent Gotham was, but when Batman comes along and stops criminals and save lives, Joker gets upset that Gotham is becoming less chaotic and that he must evolve and take drastic measures to bring that chaos back. So, it becomes a tug-o-war between Batman and Joker for the soul of Gotham. This way it’s not just some crazy guy that looks like a clown committing crimes for no reason. Just as Batman wants to clean up Gotham, Joker wants Gotham to be this wasteland paradise full of death and suffering.

It would be great to see or allude to Joker having a Bruce Wayne moment where Joker is sitting in front of a tv or thinking “this city is becoming too clean and hopeful. I have to do something about that. I have to become a symbol that good people fear and make them feel hopeless. A symbol of happiness that brings absolute dread”. Then, he sees a clown somehow and it clicks.

I mean, that IS kind of an origin story of sorts like what we've been thinking up....

 

[Captain Tired]

Which speaks to the level of creativity on this board, seeing as it basically sounds like TDK Joker all over again.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Which speaks to the level of creativity on this board, seeing as it basically sounds like TDK Joker all over again.

Which is why I wouldn't mind heavy implications that he actually worked in the factory and/or having him screw with people as to where he actually came from. Some of it's ambiguous, some of it (moreso the immediate events leading to his transformation) may very well have happened according to the GCPD for instance.

 

[TheVileOne]

STRICTLY in terms of visual reinventions the character's had so far on film, I think it's a general tie between Ledger and Phoenix. Ledger's design worked perfectly for the more "terrorist" angle they were going for with his character, and it continues to be an influence on the character's design in other media today (even if I'm not a huge fan of hobo Joker).

But part of me also wants to give the edge to Phoenix even though Ledger clearly influenced THAT design as well. Bruce Wayne put it perfectly when he said that it nails the spirit of the character more than all the other versions save for Nicholson and Romero. He's even wearing the classic orange and green waistcoat+shirt color combo underneath the red jacket! Leto's redesign had potential but they just took it too far with the jewelry and forehead tattoo even with the supposed context behind it.

Fair enough.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Which speaks to the level of creativity on this board, seeing as it basically sounds like TDK Joker all over again.

I mean, it is the same character.