Homecoming The No One Cares About This Franchise/Give the Rights Back to Marvel Thread

[NewYorkSpider]

Who would you guys pick to play Spidey in an MCU version?

Logan Lerman.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

A much younger Topher Grace, honestly.

 

[random_havoc]

Arguing over which is better between ASM2 and Spider-Man 3 is like arguing over whether what Hitler did or what Pol Pot did was worse. Who cares which was worse, they were both atrocities that should never be repeated

 

[random_havoc]

A much younger Topher Grace, honestly.

Holy crap no

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Hey guys, remember when mods came hard for a while cause Raimi movies get discussed here, and the other way around? Renewing arguments and so?
Try to obey the law, and keep this discussion focused solely on Webb of Spider-Man

Ahhh ahem


If nobody cares about the current series because Spider-Man fatigue, less will care about Marvel Studios take

 

[spider-neil]

Ahhh ahem


If nobody cares about the current series because Spider-Man fatigue, less will care about Marvel Studios take

You could argue Marvel could easily build up the popularity of the character by putting in the Avengers, like they did with Hulk who was in a far worse position than Spidey finds himself in right now. Also they could put Spidey in a live action TV series and rebuild Spidey's popularity that way. Two things Sony aren't able to do.

Also we are pretty much only talking Spidey's DOMESTIC popularity as 500m overseas figure is not to be sniffed at.

 

[LizardMan07]

Arguing over which is better between ASM2 and Spider-Man 3 is like arguing over whether what Hitler did or what Pol Pot did was worse. Who cares which was worse, they were both atrocities that should never be repeated

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

 

[Spiderdevil]

Yeah that part where he is sitting on the church in the rain is great but the goblin music in asm2 and the finaly fight with eletro is by far the best music in a soundtrack in a spider man movie besides the main them in sm1-2 and give me chills. The music when peter finds the subway thing with the recording form his dad gives me chills to. ASM2 has one of the best soundtracks I have ever heard right up there with frozen, lion king and dark knight trligy! Other then the main theme and the music on the roof top nothing in sm1-3 and sandman do I say is great great music. ASM2 got spider man' characteristic more perfect.

SM3 had like twice has much action has asm2 but more dose not mean better. ASM2 has by far the second best action in a sm movie be hide only sm2 and it is not even close. The finaly electro fight is way better then the finaly fight in sm3. The subway fight with sandman compared to the goblin fight in asm2 the goblin fight is better. The are both kind of short but the goblin fight was more in tease because it had better music and it was faster pace. Now the first harry fight in sm3 is the best fight in sm3 but that fight has nothing on the goblin fight in asm2 or the fianly electro fight. ASM2 theme or plot was about peter and gwens love the only other thing really going on was peter trying to find out what happened to his parents. SM3 you had sandman's plot about his daughter, peter and Harry's stuff and mj was so stupid in the movie. SM3 had way more going on then asm2 did. I agree that harry sacrificing him self was very emotional but gwens death was even more emotional and the scence with peter and ant may in asm2 was very emotional to.

IMO the fights in SM3 were better,the truck chase scene was too short and it seemed that they cut of a lot from it(like him jumping from car to car we saw in the SDCC trailer)
Final fight is better in SM3 too,the goblin fight was just too small,I mean it was maybe 1-1.5 minute and almost all of it was focused on Gwen

As far the soundtrack is concerned,its all subjective I guess but the main things I judge soundtracks by in the main theme and the Villain's theme and Zimmer failed horribly at both

Alright,the main theme is Okayish but the paranoia song and Electro's theme(when he is talking out his cake and all) is almost unbearable

While Young passed with flying colors in both the areas,he edited and reused Elfman's main theme which is one of the best superhero themes ever and his villains themes were excellent(Birth of Sandman and his separate drum theme) also the symbiote theme was great(Dududududu du doooooooo)

And I don't know why but I felt a lot more emotional punch after Harry's death,maybe because his character was better developed or maybe because I saw Gwen's death coming from a mile off,so to speak.IMO they needlessly over marketed that part

 

[spider-neil]

Arguing over which is better between ASM2 and Spider-Man 3 is like arguing over whether what Hitler did or what Pol Pot did was worse. Who cares which was worse, they were both atrocities that should never be repeated

Hyperbole at its finest.

 

[miltonh]

Spider-Man 3 > The Amazing Spider-Man 2

 

[miltonh]

And honestly I'm not sure what I'd rather watch again - ASM2 or Green Lantern.

 

[spider-neil]

Just to add balance, ASM2 is my favourite Spider-Man movie and one of my favourite CBMs.

 

[LizardMan07]

"Give the rights to Marvel" is equivalant to "Get Nolan to direct it" or "Cast Bryan Cranston"

Lazy, lazy solution. There's ways for Sony to salvage the thing without just giving it up, because, you know, they're a charity and are just going to hand over a multi million (possibly billion) dollar franchise. It has so much potential, it really does.

Sinister Six shows they're at least trying, they could just keep swimming where they are, but they are changing it up, S6 has the chance the revitalise the brand in ways that TASM3 couldn't, it shows Sony has ambition. This studio has done it before (SM2), they can do it again (make a good film)

Every time I see this title, I'm suprised it's allowed to stand. Such a disengenious statement, odd really. Nobody, literally not one person? "Give" the rights back, not sell them? Ha...

 

[The Joker]

Them making a Sinister Six movie shows they are not trying at all. If they were really trying they'd be concentrating all their efforts on making a great third Spider-Man movie, instead of wasting time and money on a spin off movie about six super villains that is not needed, and FANS NEVER ASKED FOR!

This is blatantly just a desperate attempt to compete with Marvel and they're successful expanding universe, just like WB and their Man of Steel sequel which is loaded with Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman and god knows who else they'll cram into it. They're trying to build up to a Justice League.

It's all about trying to catch up to Marvel. They don't care about quality.

And honestly I'm not sure what I'd rather watch again - ASM2 or Green Lantern.

I'd go with GL, and I really disliked that movie. But it didn't offend me as much as TASM 2 did.

 

[LizardMan07]

Them making a Sinister Six movie shows they are not trying at all. If they were really trying they'd be concentrating all their efforts on making a great third Spider-Man movie, instead of wasting time and money on a spin off movie about six super villains that is not needed, and FANS NEVER ASKED FOR!

This is blatantly just a desperate attempt to compete with Marvel and they're successful expanding universe, just like WB and their Man of Steel sequel which is loaded with Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman and god knows who else they'll cram into it. They're trying to build up to a Justice League.

It's all about trying to catch up to Marvel. They don't care about quality.

What's the motivation in a studio not trying exactly? Are you seriously implying that a company centralised around making films doesn't care about the quality of the films it produces?

If you think that not caring about quality is some kind of quick cash grab thing, then why would they make a film about what, as you said, the "FANS NEVER ASKED FOR!"

It really makes no sense, and I think the only logical conclusion we can reach is the studio does care about the future of spider-man movies, (they haven't sold the rights, they've announced sequels, money) they care about money (Good movie means happy fans which means more money!) and as such, they'd be making efforts to increase the viability of the franchise.

So, should we view S6 as a genuine attempt to revitalise the series, or Sony's next edition in their 7 year long "trolling" of the spider-man fanbase?

I know some don't like the new series, but the motivations of Sony are the same as they were when they made SM2, and that's making some damn fine spidey movies.

 

[spiderral]

Just to add balance, ASM2 is my favourite Spider-Man movie and one of my favourite CBMs.

Same! Even if it isn't a solid movie, it has a lot of heart and does the character of Spider-Man justice, making it my favourite Spidey film.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

 

[Erzengel]

Well I do think Sony does want to create a cinematic universe. They did want to do 4 additional movies including TASM 3 and 4, Venom and S6. Obviously, Sony wasn't happy with TASM2's gross more than it's lukewarm reception. If TASM2 made more money they wouldn't care like with the Transformers movies and keep the TASM3 release date. Hopefully, they can make a better S6 and TASM3 and learn from TASM2's mistakes.

 

[The Joker]

What's the motivation in a studio not trying exactly? Are you seriously implying that a company centralised around making films doesn't care about the quality of the films it produces?

That's exactly what I'm saying. This is a cash and grab strategy. Make a movie with a bunch of villains that nobody wanted or needs, and it will make lots of money. Marvel can do movies with loads of characters in it and make a billion dollars, so can we.

If you think that not caring about quality is some kind of quick cash grab thing, then why would they make a film about what, as you said, the "FANS NEVER ASKED FOR!"

Because they're trying to compete with Marvel and their expansive universe. They can't put Spidey in the Avengers because Marvel owns the right to that, so they're doing a Sinister Six movie.

It really makes no sense, and I think the only logical conclusion we can reach is the studio does care about the future of spider-man movies, (they haven't sold the rights, they've announced sequels, money) they care about money (Good movie means happy fans which means more money!) and as such, they'd be making efforts to increase the viability of the franchise.

If the studio cared they wouldn't be making a Sinister Six spin off. Pre The Avengers nobody was trying this. Now since The Avengers made a billion and is cleaning house, low and behold Man Of Steel's sequel is throwing three other heroes along with Superman, and Spider-Man is getting a super villain ensemble spin off movie.

The writing is on the wall. This has zero to do with quality. It's all about keeping up with the competition.

So, should we view S6 as a genuine attempt to revitalise the series, or Sony's next edition in their 7 year long "trolling" of the spider-man fanbase?

Neither. View it as their cheap cash in attempt to keep up with the Marvel competition.

I know some don't like the new series, but the motivations of Sony are the same as they were when they made SM2, and that's making some damn fine spidey movies.

Really? All evidence to the contrary. If they really cared about making a great Spidey movie like SM-2, they wouldn't be interfering in the creative process of the movie with the director, cramming multiple villains into one movie just so they can use it as a platform for a spin of nobody wanted.

They would be putting all their time and efforts into TASM 3, and fixing all the flaws and complaints people had with the previous two movies. A Sinister Six spin off is not going to fix the problems of the previous two movies.

 

[chaseter]

The "It's my birthday....time to LIGHT MY CANDLESSS~~~" was very chessy those other ones where not chessy at all what so ever.
The horner theme was just terable and so was the music in asm1. Asm1 has by far the worst soundtrack in a sm movie yet. Sm 1-3 had good music but asm2 music was better. What do you mean this movie was the least like spider man like spidy told? Spider man's charterisitc where perfect in the movie much better then not funny spider man form sm1-3. God names sparkles the moment with the kid early in the movie and the moment at the end. So many classic moments of spider man being spider man.

Do you live in the US and is English your first language? Not trying to be rude...genuine question. It is hard to read your posts with that spelling.

 

[LizardMan07]

That's exactly what I'm saying. This is a cash and grab strategy. Make a movie with a bunch of villains that nobody wanted or needs, and it will make lots of money. Marvel can do movies with loads of characters in it and make a billion dollars, so can we.

Hoooold up, please hold up. If you don't care about a movies quality, why spend 200+ million on it? If all you need for financial success is a movie title and some semblance of a film for 120 minutes on screen, why spend the big bucks on the film? Nobody wants these villians, and yet, regardless of quality, it is going to make a truckload of money because it is slightly similar to it? You're contradicting yourself, within 10 words. 10 words. Newsflash, the GA go see movies that are good, and involve things people want (need is too strong a word, people need water, people enjoy films)

Do you have this vision in your head of the Sony Execs running around naked in an office for two thirds of the production and then filming the actors improvising it in for the next third until we get some semblance of a film because quality doesn't matter? And spending 200+ million on it? I know you don't like the series, but to try to push this idea that they don't care about the quality, and are just pushing out a film that is bad, nobody cares about but will still be successful just seems so illogical, and so unlikely. I honestly think you're having me on or something.


Because they're trying to compete with Marvel and their expansive universe. They can't put Spidey in the Avengers because Marvel owns the right to that, so they're doing a Sinister Six movie.

And you'd still want the movie to be good correct? Regardless of whether they're copying the marvel model, they still don't want the film to be a livefeed of a whale birthing, they actually have to try. So this point doesn't really stand. Sony are actually competent, they're not children, they make things with the intention of actually selling things, sure, sometimes it ends up poor, but we still end up with a product that's to a standard where you can't sue them under consumer law.

If the studio cared they wouldn't be making a Sinister Six spin off. Pre The Avengers nobody was trying this. Now since The Avengers made a billion and is cleaning house, low and behold Man Of Steel's sequel is throwing three other heroes along with Superman, and Spider-Man is getting a super villain ensemble spin off movie.

The writing is on the wall. This has zero to do with quality. It's all about keeping up with the competition.

It's almost like I can copy my last response to this, in fact, how is this even adressing my point? I said the studio cared about making money and the films future, you responded by saying they're copying a concept that a.) made money and b.) was of a good quality... Huh? The writings on the wall, it's all about keeping up with the competition by disregarding quality and showing Toby maguire's greatest faces for an hour as a film. Craaazy stuff here. Let's copy a quality franchise by disregarding the quality of the films!

It's becoming abundantly clear you think Sony is run by a child or a horse.

Neither. View it as their cheap cash in attempt to keep up with the Marvel competition.

You know how I'd keep up with the competition? I'd revitalise the series. SONY ACTUALLY WANT THEIR FILM TO DO WELL AND OVER 25 YEARS OF FILM SHOW TO DO THAT YOU ACTUALLY NEED TO GIVE AT LEAST A SLIGHT AMOUNT ABOUT QUALITY ****

Really? All evidence to the contrary. If they really cared about making a great Spidey movie like SM-2, they wouldn't be interfering in the creative process of the movie with the director, cramming multiple villains into one movie just so they can use it as a platform for a spin of nobody wanted.

Do you think it's in the realms of possibility that Sony interfered with the director because they had a vision of what was good for the franchise? (Be it right or wrong) Or are you saying that they delibretely messed with the director in order to make their film really poor? That seems like bad business. Multiple villians has worked before in the past (you're avatar has a picture from a movie it worked in) and the spinoff thing again, doesn't indicate sony want to burn their own franchise or something.


They would be putting all their time and efforts into TASM 3, and fixing all the flaws and complaints people had with the previous two movies. A Sinister Six spin off is not going to fix the problems of the previous two movies.

Main problem was the villians and a narrative that was unclosed, imagine if you had a film that could develop the villians and close that nasty S6 plot that would bog down the next spidey sequel? If only...

I replied in bold as I'm lazy as heck and can't format properly.

Also, Drew Goddard. Who hires him if it's just a cheap cashgrab? If it was, isn't it logical to spend as less money as possible? Isn't it more likely that sony actually want to make money, and have a film franchise? Isn't it likely that they're trying to one up marvel? What do all these things have as a common demoninator

Quality.

 

[LizardMan07]

Do you live in the US and is English your first language? Not trying to be rude...genuine question. It is hard to read your posts with that spelling.

I've pm'd him before, english is his first language and I think he's an Aussie like me from memory...

 

[spider-neil]

spiderman2, I understand your posts just fine

 

[spider-neil]

Personally speaking, I like ASM and love ASM2. My main problem with the Spider-Man franchise in general (and this includes Raimi's version) is every single one of the movies follows the same formula more or less and I'm really want Sony to break from that formula. That will almost certainly happen with S6, I want it to happen with ASM3 as well.

I felt the same thing about the Nolan Batman movies as well, three movies, same formula (bring on Batfleck to mix things up). Compare that to say, Star Wars and Empire. Same unvierse vastly different movies. As far as I'm concerned the ASM haters can hate, all I want from the new Spidey movies is to go in vastly new and interesting directions.

Heck why stop there, I felt the same about the Spidey comics and WELCOMED the Spider-Ock storyline as something DIFFERENT for once.

 

[Spiderdevil]

What's the motivation in a studio not trying exactly? Are you seriously implying that a company centralised around making films doesn't care about the quality of the films it produces?

If you think that not caring about quality is some kind of quick cash grab thing, then why would they make a film about what, as you said, the "FANS NEVER ASKED FOR!"

It really makes no sense, and I think the only logical conclusion we can reach is the studio does care about the future of spider-man movies, (they haven't sold the rights, they've announced sequels, money) they care about money (Good movie means happy fans which means more money!) and as such, they'd be making efforts to increase the viability of the franchise.

So, should we view S6 as a genuine attempt to revitalise the series, or Sony's next edition in their 7 year long "trolling" of the spider-man fanbase?

I know some don't like the new series, but the motivations of Sony are the same as they were when they made SM2, and that's making some damn fine spidey movies.

We are judging their intention,since it is for the good of Spider-man
We just think the method they are applying in completely wrong.

To revive Spider-man they need to put their head down and write a good script for individual movies and let that speak for itself,and not sabotage the whole movie with needless polt points and villains just because they want sinister six down the line.They need to make good Spider-man movies and not get ahead of themselves with Venom and Sinister six and Black cat and God knows what else

I mean the whole advantage of Spidey being with Sony was his freedom and individuality,but with Sony going through with this half-assed attempt at a universe,why not have in in the actual MCU rather than a poor man's version of it