The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Part 9

[Spider-Fan]

For that to happen we will need something like Superman Returns, a love letter to the Raimi/Maguire trilogy, and continues after their story. Continuing after Spider-Man 3 of course

If I wanted to integrate Spidey into the MCU, I'd consider making a "spiritual sequel" to Raimi's films. Meaning, Spider-Man has been active for years, and maybe certain plot points can be mentioned. Ben's death, complicated past with MJ, Ock maybe is thought dead by time he comes back (but never directly talk about SM2's specific plot points), etc. So, if someone like minded as me does a future MCU Spidey film, maybe that becomes possible.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

If I wanted to integrate Spidey into the MCU, I'd consider making a "spiritual sequel" to Raimi's films. Meaning, Spider-Man has been active for years, and maybe certain plot points can be mentioned. Ben's death, complicated past with MJ, Ock maybe is thought dead by time he comes back (but never directly talk about SM2's specific plot points), etc. So, if someone like minded as me does a future MCU Spidey film, maybe that becomes possible.

That's an interesting idea
I still prefer the movie to remain separate from Marvel Cinematic Universe though

 

[A Necessary Evil]

If I wanted to integrate Spidey into the MCU, I'd consider making a "spiritual sequel" to Raimi's films. Meaning, Spider-Man has been active for years, and maybe certain plot points can be mentioned. Ben's death, complicated past with MJ, Ock maybe is thought dead by time he comes back (but never directly talk about SM2's specific plot points), etc. So, if someone like minded as me does a future MCU Spidey film, maybe that becomes possible.

That's actually not too bad!

 

[TeeKay]

Re-watched SM1 today, great film. Really loved the 3rd act and final battle. Man that was brutal.t:

"MJ and I, we're gonna have a hell of a time." Loved Dafoe as the GG.

 

[webhead731]

Re-watched SM1 today, great film. Really loved the 3rd act and final battle. Man that was brutal.t:

"MJ and I, we're gonna have a hell of a time." Loved Dafoe as the GG.

I love the final fight. The sound effects were golden. Tobey's screams sounded like he was really getting his *** kicked.

Also when Goblin uppercuts him, goes to slow motion, Goblin lands and WHAM-cut-WHAM *slow mo*

And when Spidey gets punched and tumbles and comes back shooting the webs. Such good stunt work!

 

[Venom75]

One thing I never got though. During the ending fight when Spidey tries to trap Goblin in the web.First of all,the web isn't sticky at and and then when Goblin breaks free of it(rather easily I might add)it sounds like breaking glass?? lol

 

[spidermanJLA!~]

Raimi's Spider-man seems to have the ability to create a giant, strong web that can be as tough as metal. Just watch the end of Spider-man 2.

 

[TheVileOne]

Apologies to fans of the Amazing films, but they really just make me appreciate the Raimi films a lot more.

Case in point the relationships between Peter and Harry or damn, just Harry and Norman. I feel like in the first two Spider-Man movies we got a good understanding of the classic dynamics between Norman and Peter. Amazing 2 just ended up repeating a lot of the mistakes of Spider-Man 3, and dang, Joel Schumacher. Never thought that would happen.

Just for example, we get a pretty full character relationship for Harry and Norman in the first film. In this movie we just get that one long bizarre extended scene. It's like two movies worth of development stuffed into one scene. We've never seen or heard from Norman Osborn before. Suddenly he's just thrown in there and he's got this weird bizarre disease.

In 2012, fans proudly proclaimed that they were doing the Green Goblin "right" this time. Well...still waiting to see what you mean.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I still say that Green Goblin WAS done right. In Spider-Man. He just looked stupid. But, character, relationships, performance, etc. He was excellent.

 

[TheVileOne]

I agree they faltered with Harry's conclusion in Spider-Man 3. Obvious they did. But everything with Norman was done well to me. Other than that, well of course it was MJ instead of Gwen Stacy.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Actually, I felt Harry was best thing in SM3. As bad as the movie got, I liked when he sacrificed himself to save Peter. Good emotional moment, and one that worked in that movie. Unlike the Sandman forgiveness scene.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think Harry's performance was alright but his subplot was affected by trying to fit in all the business with Sandman, black suit Spidey, and Venom. One or most of those elements needed to be gone.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think Harry's performance was alright but his subplot was affected by trying to fit in all the business with Sandman, black suit Spidey, and Venom. One or most of those elements needed to be gone.

HERE I agree. I would argue Sandman needed to go. When Spidey had the black suit and went to the mansion, and they fought, that was great. That whole sequence was awesome! It felt personal, the fight itself was great, shocker ending with the bomb, etc. All awesome. Sandman's resolution sucked and he didn't have much of a character in the movie. He was probably the easiest to cut. Plus, the Ben's killer subplot in SM3 was one of the dumbest aspects of the movie. If this had been more Venom and Harry Goblin, the movie would have been way better.

In fact, SM3 should have been about Harry driving Peter to the darkness instead of Sandman. I had no problem with Venom only appearing as the final villain. Symbollically, it works. I think if the film focused on Harry driving Peter to darkness by destroying his life around him, and eventually the symbiote makes him more aggressive and then he nearly kills Harry. Build Brock up with more scenes, and eventually much of the movie could have been similar from Harry vs Peter at mansion to the church. Then Peter fights Venom. Harry sees on TV, and WITHOUT BEING ASKED decides to help his friend. No Butler or any grabage. Would have maintained Raimi's themes, and been much better.

 

[TheVileOne]

I like that idea Spider-Fan. But instead of just deciding, before that I think he would've needed to personally *exorcise* his father's demon. By exorcise I mean being taunted by the memory of Norman again and just rejecting it before deciding to save Peter.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I like that idea Spider-Fan. But instead of just deciding, before that I think he would've needed to personally *exorcise* his father's demon. By exorcise I mean being taunted by the memory of Norman again and just rejecting it before deciding to save Peter.

Agreed! Would have been a MUCH better direction for the film

Sandman was just too much and didn't add anything outside of a cool power.

 

[Visualiza]

I still say that Green Goblin WAS done right. In Spider-Man. He just looked stupid. But, character, relationships, performance, etc. He was excellent.

He always was. That was just one of the many things that those with an ax to grind held over people's heads until the it was time to put up or shut up. Looks like they still haven't shut up unfortunately, but all of their lofty claims are coming apart at the seams.

Dafoe was a stellar Norman and Goblin; I was actually sad to see him go after the first movie. Always felt that there was a lot more that could have been done with the character, but SM '02 was produced at a time when episodic franchising wasn't all the rage, and killing off villains was the status quo for action movies in general. That's the way I always looked at it, at least. Magneto seems to be the only one who came out alive.

 

[TheVileOne]

Magneto and Scarecrow

 

[Visualiza]

Magneto and Scarecrow

But Scarecrow was what, '05? Eh...only a 3 year difference I guess. Seems like the landscape has changed a lot in the last decade or so. Still, even with stinkers like TASM 2, we've gotten some real gems within that time frame as well. I still say that we're in the golden age of superhero/comic book flicks.

 

[BlackFox]

Yeah just rewatched SM1 and SM2 to see if I was being biased against TASM or if nostalgia had got the best of me and to be frank I am not, they are miles and leagues ahead of the new ones. Some of the things I noticed:

Everything feels like its out of the comics. Parker, May, Harry/Norman, Goblin, Ock, JJJ (god how TASM misses JJJ), the only one maybe not quite right is MJW and Spiderman himself which TASM might be better at.

Goblin is done properly, all be it sans costume, Defoe is terrific in the role and Molina is brilliant as Ock as well and looks perfect on top. These two are head and shoulders above any of the villians in TASM saga.

Maguire's Parker is so much better than Garfields. Or more to the point Raimi's Parker is actually written like P Parker from the comics, a nerdy outcast like he's meant to be unlike Webb's PP that seems like another character entirely, hardly one from the comics anyway. The only thing against Maguire is that he looks funny when he cries which a lot of people seems to leap on. But you can root for Maguire's PP while Garfields you just want to slap.

I really like how SM1 shows him slowly gaining and learning his powers

The action in SM2 is incredible and the CGi still holds firm today, the whole clock tower and train sequence is still stunning and one of the best CBM action sequences in the genre, its memorable unlike pretty much all of the action in TASM.

There is some cheese, but I think any Spiderman film is always going to have some and more than most other CBM, but at least in Raimis its like a thin slice of cheese in a Burger which enhances it not a whole god damn wedge of Edam on its own like the villians in TASM2.

Anyway thats just some thoughts and there is nothing to say TASM3 cant improve on things and come up with the best Spiderman film yet but as a trilogy its not going to surpass it with just one film. SM3 may not have been very good at al but TASM 1 and 2 are only just ahead of that film and nowhere close to these first two.

 

[TheVileOne]

Agreed Black Fox.

 

[Visualiza]

The sad thing is that you felt the need to do that in the first place, and I don't mean from your point of view, so please don't take it that way.

That just proves that some of the more devout fans are taking their love affairs with these franchises way too far. Any criticisms these days is met with "you're just biased, you're a hater, you're a fanboy of movie XYZ."

It really is getting ridiculous. Most of us who enjoy these movies can at least have a mature discussion about the flaws. GG's costume, MJ, Sandman, Venom, whatever, I think a lot of us have the same grievances, whether they we can look past them or not. It seems like fans of the newer franchises are so quick to go into attack mode any time their movies are criticized. I find this intensely disturbing.

I'd bet a dime to a dollar that if Elektra and Green Lantern were released in their current forms tomorrow, that they would both attract an overly defensive fanbase like this as well. People are just refusing to see issues in these new movies if the characters, actors, and/or directors (or really, any of the crew involved) are near and dear to their hearts. Having an analytical discussion is becoming an uphill battle around here.

Sorry to go off on a tangent and I don't mean to take this one off the rails, but your post got me thinking about the state of affairs around here lately.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Nostalgia won't color the enjoyment of this trilogy for me, or have much effect on it
I love the costume of the Green Goblin in the first movie, have absolutely nothing against it

 

[BlackFox]

The sad thing is that you felt the need to do that in the first place, and I don't mean from your point of view, so please don't take it that way.

That just proves that some of the more devout fans are taking their love affairs with these franchises way too far. Any criticisms these days is met with "you're just biased, you're a hater, you're a fanboy of movie XYZ."

It really is getting ridiculous. Most of us who enjoy these movies can at least have a mature discussion about the flaws. GG's costume, MJ, Sandman, Venom, whatever, I think a lot of us have the same grievances, whether they we can look past them or not. It seems like fans of the newer franchises are so quick to go into attack mode any time their movies are criticized. I find this intensely disturbing.

I'd bet a dime to a dollar that if Elektra and Green Lantern were released in their current forms tomorrow, that they would both attract an overly defensive fanbase like this as well. People are just refusing to see issues in these new movies if the characters, actors, and/or directors (or really, any of the crew involved) are near and dear to their hearts. Having an analytical discussion is becoming an uphill battle around here.

Sorry to go off on a tangent and I don't mean to take this one off the rails, but your post got me thinking about the state of affairs around here lately.

Thats ok, I know what you meant, no offence taken.

Yeah I agree with you, some people can get a bit over defensive with things they love, and I can understand that I am the same to degree but hopefully not as bad as some t:, no two peoples views are ever going to be exactly the same when it comes to something as objective as films. I dont have a problem with people liking the new films more than the previous, thats cool, their view is different to mine, I know there's films I love which others hate but I'd much rather a mature discussion about it than getting over defensive as constructive criticism is always more useful going forward.

It does seem though that sometimes people think you are going in to hate it just because it is a different franchise, which is wrong. I didnt go into TASM 1 or 2 saying "This films is going to be trash no matter what" I wanted it to be better than the original trilogy but unfortunately for me it hasnt worked out like that, the same when I went into see Spiderman 3.

I think it just comes with age and being mature, when your younger you tend to react to extremes more, which is just the way of things, I was like that and can still have my moments, so I get it but it doesnt make for a progressive conversation just venting anger.

Nostalgia won't color the enjoyment of this trilogy for me, or have much effect on it
I love the costume of the Green Goblin in the first movie, have absolutely nothing against it

Nostalgia can sometimes play tricks though but the good thing is its easy to go back and check out an old film again just to make sure especially with films you havnt seen in a while.

And there you go, someone has a different view on the GG costume from SM1, and while not a big fan of it myself I will agree it at least looks like something that comes from a Spiderman comic and actually prefer it to the look in TASM2 and SM3.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Actually, I felt Harry was best thing in SM3. As bad as the movie got, I liked when he sacrificed himself to save Peter. Good emotional moment, and one that worked in that movie. Unlike the Sandman forgiveness scene.

Agreed with all of this, especially the bold, Harry and that whole arc was done perfectly in Spidey 3, and is one of the reasons I personally like that movie more than most. The Harry/Peter stuff in that movie is mostly gold

Apologies to fans of the Amazing films, but they really just make me appreciate the Raimi films a lot more.

Case in point the relationships between Peter and Harry or damn, just Harry and Norman. I feel like in the first two Spider-Man movies we got a good understanding of the classic dynamics between Norman and Peter. Amazing 2 just ended up repeating a lot of the mistakes of Spider-Man 3, and dang, Joel Schumacher. Never thought that would happen.

Just for example, we get a pretty full character relationship for Harry and Norman in the first film. In this movie we just get that one long bizarre extended scene. It's like two movies worth of development stuffed into one scene. We've never seen or heard from Norman Osborn before. Suddenly he's just thrown in there and he's got this weird bizarre disease.

In 2012, fans proudly proclaimed that they were doing the Green Goblin "right" this time. Well...still waiting to see what you mean.

Once again totally agreed, I dont dislike the new series, but Raimi's one was just so much better. Watching them again over the last few days have just hammered that point home, in 10 years I am pretty certain I will still be watching the Raimi Spiderman movies (especially 1 and 2) more than the new ones.

 

[henzINNIT]

Sandman was just too much and didn't add anything outside of a cool power.

It was a cool power though. A lot of spectacle in the filmj would be lost if you cut that character.

I remember Joss Whedon once said if you're having problems with your story, a lot of times to fix it you have to cut your favourite part. The Sandman issue reminds me of that. Raimi was clearly passionate about that character, but I don't think he found a good enough reason to use him. While I still think Sony were being ***** about it all and forcing Venom in hurt the film, the symbiote arc fit the story better in the end.

There's a guy over on fanedit.org who's working on his own SM3.1, and while it obviously won't include the extra footage we're all clamouring for, he has some interesting ideas. He's basically restructuring the story to be far more about Harry and reducing Sandman to a minor villain. Definitely gonna check it out when he's done.