The Official Superman Thread

[hippie_hunter]

Lex and General Ross killed most of them, and Lex got away with it 100%, even taking over Action Comics main feature.

Just the latest in DC's continuing castration of Superman really.

Lex got away with it because everyone hated the Kryptonians

 

[hippie_hunter]

Whatever, they're just Kryptonians. Dime a dozen these days.

Not really, they all sorta got killed off.....again.

All that is left is Superman, Supergirl, Karsta Wor-Ul, about 7,000 Kryptonians in the Phantom Zone, and if you count the Eradicator, Power Girl, and Superboy as Kryptonians as well.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Pff, 7,000? Like I said, dime a dozen.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Pff, 7,000? Like I said, dime a dozen.

But they're in the Phantom Zone, with no way out. Does that really count?

And there are the Modern Daxamites who are descendants of Native Daxamites and Kryptonian colonists.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That always counts. The Phantom Zone's nothing big.

 

[Mystirious]

Yep Zod broke out of it twice in one year

Lex got away with it because everyone hated the Kryptonians

And thats terrible

I miss New Krypton

 

[fifthfiend]

Why are the Kryptonians in the phantom zone anyway?

As opposed to, you know... the humans, who were responsible for committing genocide against Krypton?

 

[Mystirious]

The Kryptonians in the Phantom Zone are the ones allied with Zod

 

[hippie_hunter]

Why are the Kryptonians in the phantom zone anyway?

As opposed to, you know... the humans, who were responsible for committing genocide against Krypton?

They are the remnants of the Kryptonian Military Guild under the command of General Zod that invaded Earth during the 100 Minute War.

As for the humans responsible for destroying New Krypton, General Sam Lane killed himself and is now hailed as a hero and Lex Luthor was pardoned for his crimes and given control of what is left of LexCorp.

 

[fifthfiend]

I'm just saying that the Kryptonians who allied with Zod are still completely and utterly justified and had every right to respond to the massive, unprovoked, vicious attack against them. Locking them up in the phantom zone for responding to an act of war is just incredibly dumb.

EDIT: It's especially idiotic that Superman would imprison Zod, but not (at minimum) Lex Luthor and Sam Lane's other collaborators in the government.

 

[Mystirious]

Yep

Everything about that event was

 

[fifthfiend]

Like I've said elsewhere, it's an amazing achievement on the part of Grounded to make everyone forget so quickly how incredibly ****ing terrible WoNK was.

 

[Stallion9979]

I have an issue right now where my 7 year old is starting to get into the superhero phase...I scoured the internet and spent a hefty sum putting together a really nice collection of 54 DCU figures (expensive to say the least) and he sees my collection and has asked if i would buy him his own comics...his favorites are Batman and Superman and I taught him about the big 7 JLA which seems to no longer exist...

now my issue is that I want him to be able to get the same joy that I got as a kid going and buying comics but how can I introduce him to it without him being ridiculously confused by the current format of the books and/or not going the kiddie comic route...

I mean recently ive been posting on the boards cuz I took a break from collecting and I'm behind but the real reason ive been getting back into is for my son...when I was a kid and stretching into my teens and twenties, reading comics was a nice way to escape the everyday doldrums of life and I want him to be able to experience that same joy...

can anyone help with this?

 

[fifthfiend]

Go the kiddie comic route, Marvel Adventures FTW.

Save the gorny cannibalism rape decapitation comics for when he's mature enough to appreciate them, IE ages 11-14.

Hopefully after that he'll work out on his own that all that **** is actually just for overgrown emotionally damaged babies and the MA stuff is comics for actual grownups who like grownup things like characterization and storytelling.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I'm just saying that the Kryptonians who allied with Zod are still completely and utterly justified and had every right to respond to the massive, unprovoked, vicious attack against them. Locking them up in the phantom zone for responding to an act of war is just incredibly dumb.

EDIT: It's especially idiotic that Superman would imprison Zod, but not (at minimum) Lex Luthor and Sam Lane's other collaborators in the government.

1. General Zod was planning to attack Earth anyways because General Zod placed the blame on Earth for unleashing Brainiac on New Krypton which resulted in the deaths of the entire government of New Krypton with the exception of Alura and General Zod. They were going to attack Earth even if New Krypton wasn't destroyed.

2. General Sam Lane and Lex Luthor were acting without the approval of any Earth government. The Pentagon gave him a blank check to do anything he wanted (such as recruiting Lex Luthor, torture, and various other crimes). General Zod and the Kryptonian military guild really isn't justified to invade and take over Earth when the blame is on just two men.

3. The actions of the various Earth governments to ban Kryptonians, establish military units to combat Kryptonians, etc. is entirely justified due to the actions of the Kandorians in the New Krypton arc. They developed an arrogant attitude that they could do whatever they wanted (such as killing police officers) because they were more powerful than humans. After Kandor left and became New Krypton, they continued to provoke the Earth by restablishing the Kryptonian Military Guild and freeing General Zod from the Phantom Zone, installing Kryptonian sleeper agents throughout the Earth, and overall still thinking that they could do whatever the hell they wanted. The problem is that Lex Luthor and General Lane took it too far by committing genocide without any real approval.

4. Superman didn't go after Lex Luthor because he was pardoned for his actions in the 100 Minute War and General Lane killed himself because he didn't want to be brought to justice. With people trusting Superman at an all time low, he can't just go after a man that was declared innocent.

 

[fifthfiend]

2. General Sam Lane and Lex Luthor were acting without the approval of any Earth government. The Pentagon gave him a blank check to do anything he wanted (such as recruiting Lex Luthor, torture, and various other crimes). General Zod and the Kryptonian military guild really isn't justified to invade and take over Earth when the blame is on just two men.

4. Superman didn't go after Lex Luthor because he was pardoned for his actions in the 100 Minute War and General Lane killed himself because he didn't want to be brought to justice. With people trusting Superman at an all time low, he can't just go after a man that was declared innocent.

I realize that DC wants to pretend that Lane's blank check and Luthor's pardon don't actually mean the US Government completely and utterly approved and was responsible for Lane and Luthor's actions but I have no intention of doing the same.

Superman taking massive punitive measures against the surviving Kryptonians while bowing to public opinion for the sake of a mass murderer undermines everything he could possibly claim to stand for; it reduces him to the idiotic weak-willed puppet Frank Miller protrayed in DKR that never really existed in the mainline comics until WoNK.

1. General Zod was planning to attack Earth anyways because General Zod placed the blame on Earth for unleashing Brainiac on New Krypton which resulted in the deaths of the entire government of New Krypton with the exception of Alura and General Zod. They were going to attack Earth even if New Krypton wasn't destroyed.

Things that didn't happen don't excuse things that did happen, and at that, IIRC Lane and Luthor were involved on Braniac's attack on New Krypton (I will allow that I may be misremembering/overstating on this last point).

 

[hippie_hunter]

I realize that DC wants to pretend that Lane's blank check and Luthor's pardon don't actually mean the US Government completely and utterly approved and was responsible for Lane and Luthor's actions but I have no intention of doing the same.

The whole point was to show that in the end Generals Zod and Lane were the same. They both went to far in provoking the legitimate fears and paranoia the peoples of Earth and New Krypton had. And you can say that General Zod's actions led to the extinction of his people and General Lane's actions threatened and hurt Earth instead of protecting it, which is what both men did not want.

In the end they were both deservedly punished.

Superman taking massive punitive measures against the surviving Kryptonians while bowing to public opinion for the sake of a mass murderer undermines everything he could possibly claim to stand for; it reduces him to the idiotic weak-willed puppet Frank Miller protrayed in DKR that never really existed in the mainline comics until WoNK.

I do agree with that to a certain extent. I think that the US Government should have revoked their pardon of Luthor since they had no intention of going as far as General Lane and Luthor did.

Allowing Luthor's pardon to go through makes not only Superman look ineffectual, but also makes the government of the DC Universe look as stupid as Marvel's.

Things that didn't happen don't excuse things that did happen, and at that, IIRC Lane and Luthor were involved on Braniac's attack on New Krypton (I will allow that I may be misremembering/overstating on this last point).

The point is that even if New Krypton wasn't destroyed, General Zod would have attacked Earth anyways. The reason why the Kryptonian Military Guild wasn't killed along with the rest of New Krypton was because they were off to go and attack Earth.

 

[BrianWilly]

Things that didn't happen don't excuse things that did happen, and at that, IIRC Lane and Luthor were involved on Braniac's attack on New Krypton (I will allow that I may be misremembering/overstating on this last point).

I don't think Lane had anything to do with that, but Luthor was directly involved in the Brainiac attack.

2. General Sam Lane and Lex Luthor were acting without the approval of any Earth government. The Pentagon gave him a blank check to do anything he wanted (such as recruiting Lex Luthor, torture, and various other crimes).

Uh, I'm confused. Is the Pentagon all of a sudden not part of the US government now? Giving him a blank check is the exact definition of approving whatever he's going to do with it! They are directly culpable for his actions whether they knew what he was going to do specifically or not. In fact, off the top of my head I can't remember a single instance where it was ever mentioned that Lane was acting against the wishes of the government.

And saying that all of this falls solely on the shoulders of two individuals is incredibly disingenuous. Lane didn't singlehandedly destroy a planet, he had the support of hundreds of military personnel and scientists planning genocide with him every step of the way. Not to go all Godwin on everyone, but blaming all of this on Lane and Luthor is the equivalent of saying that Hitler gets all the blame for everything the Nazis did.

4. Superman didn't go after Lex Luthor because he was pardoned for his actions in the 100 Minute War and General Lane killed himself because he didn't want to be brought to justice. With people trusting Superman at an all time low, he can't just go after a man that was declared innocent.

I can't imagine Superman allowing public opinion stopping him from doing the right thing.

 

[Watchman]

I can't imagine Superman allowing public opinion stopping him from doing the right thing.

Oh hey Frank Miller.

 

[BrianWilly]

See, the right way to write Superman is the exact opposite of anything Frank Miller would ever do.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I don't think Lane had anything to do with that, but Luthor was directly involved in the Brainiac attack.

Luthor was working for Lane. The deal was that Luthor works for Lane pretending to work with Brainiac and in return he gets pardoned and gets control of LexCorp.

Uh, I'm confused. Is the Pentagon all of a sudden not part of the US government now? Giving him a blank check is the exact definition of approving whatever he's going to do with it! They are directly culpable for his actions whether they knew what he was going to do specifically or not. In fact, off the top of my head I can't remember a single instance where it was ever mentioned that Lane was acting against the wishes of the government.

Even in real life, the Pentagon has black operations that they don't have to explain and don't obtain full approval by Congress. The government gave the Pentagon the ability to combat the potential Kryptonian threat, but they didn't exactly know all the details of what General Lane developed such as creating a suicide bomb within Reactron.

And saying that all of this falls solely on the shoulders of two individuals is incredibly disingenuous. Lane didn't singlehandedly destroy a planet, he had the support of hundreds of military personnel and scientists planning genocide with him every step of the way. Not to go all Godwin on everyone, but blaming all of this on Lane and Luthor is the equivalent of saying that Hitler gets all the blame for everything the Nazis did.

Well the entire Project 7734 does deserve blame, but the major figures of the group were Sam Lane and Lex Luthor (the same way we blame Hitler for everything the Nazis did). Project 7734 went behind the US Government's back under the orders of Sam Lane, who is the equivalent of a renagade general.

To say that Zod was justified in taking over Earth over the actions of a rogue group that took their mandate too far without proper approval (the US Government did not authorize them to commit genocide or provoke a war, just to protect Earth) is absurd.

I can't imagine Superman allowing public opinion stopping him from doing the right thing.

Also take into account that he just fought the last surviors of his people who were just as strong as he was, his race has now been doomed to extinction, and he hasn't seen his friends and family in over a year, Superman really wasn't in the mental or physical state to go after Luthor either.

The best way for Superman to get Luthor to pay for his crimes is to expose what he and General Lane did that provoked the 100 Minute War, which was what the end of the New Krypton Saga said they were going to do (and never followed up on).

 

[Watchman]

See, the right way to write Superman is the exact opposite of anything Frank Miller would ever do.

That's right. With great power comes great responsibility to use it mediocrely.

 

[BrianWilly]

Even in real life, the Pentagon has black operations that they don't have to explain and don't obtain full approval by Congress. The government gave the Pentagon the ability to combat the potential Kryptonian threat, but they didn't exactly know all the details of what General Lane developed such as creating a suicide bomb within Reactron.

If even a tiny portion of the US government -- no matter how clandestine -- was ever responsible for the destruction of an entire planet and everyone living on it, you can bet that there would be more fingerpointing and furor and demands for answers over it than "none at all." And not just from the public; painting the entire US government as a single hivemind with no greater objective than to save face and avoid responsibility all the time is the mark of zero-dimensional, overplayed writing that doesn't belong anywhere in a remotely good book. I know, I know, it's just so easy to simply zone out all political realities and write this country as if we live in a fascist state that allows no threats to its power, but the fact is that we live in an inherently bi-partisan government. Where were the political opponents of the current administration? They wouldn't look at this as the perfect opportunity to attack and undermine their opposition, demanding the rest of 7734 to be brought forward for war crimes?

Where are the other superheroes? What are their opinions on this? What about the other countries? They're not ****ing terrified of the fact that the US apparently took it upon themselves to blow up a planet that it didn't like?

Instead we get "General Lane was a hero, alright everyone let's move on."

 

[hippie_hunter]

And that is why War of the Supermen fails as a story when it had so much potential.

 

[JTStarkiller]

Hey guys. Subscribed to this thread, but never really post much. Anyways, I'm pretty excited to read what Roberson's going to do with the title. It's great to see an Austinite get the call to work on a title of this caliber. Really happy for him.

He's actually gonna be signing copies this Wed here, and I'm actually curious if anyone would want a signed copy, from me to you. I was thinking I'd post again tomorrow (Sat the 8th sometime during the day), and the first person to PM me their full name and address after that, I'll send them a copy of #707 personalized to you from Roberson. I'm going to get it personalized so it's definitely for someone who wants it. Sound cool? Is this in any way against any kind of crazy forum rules? Thought it might be fun. I'll also take care of the cost of the issue and shipping (I'll probably throw it in one of those bubble mailers bagged and boarded), so it's my little gift to one of you. Let me know if people would be interested in this. Cheers.