God forbid we crack terrorists' skulls huh? What an oversimplification, given how she did have connection to her heritage here and showed tremendous kindness and consideration to others, where was that in the sequel? The shoe-horned legend to explain golden armor?
It's not how we deal with criminal offenders in the modern world, we don't smash their heads against the wall, she's not a jury judge and executioner. What's even more funny is that kills them right in the Central Criminal Court of England which she then blows up...
I loved it. I mean, it’s the same story underneath, but the overall difference in characterisations, depth, plot, score and so on between this and the Whedon version are night and day. It’s a long movie, and it’s not without its flaws, but overall it’s a really enjoyable watch. Snyder brings an almost mythical quality to these superheroes and Gods that was sorely lacking from the first film.
My biggest gripe now with the 2017 film is how criminally under-utilised Cyborg was. He’s a standout in this and why so much of his footage never saw the screen is beyond me.
It's not how we deal with criminal offenders in the modern world, we don't smash their heads against the wall...She's not a jury judge and executioner. What's even more funny is that kills them right in the Central Criminal Court of England which she then blows up...
Felt like Snyder was trying too hard to be artsy and “different”, I mean he already has the dull colors and slow motion effects going, he didn’t need to make JL in 4:3.
I actually really enjoyed this, but the Epilogue seemed pretty unnecessary. Maybe end at the ‘S’ reveal & the end of Silas Stone’s monologue voiceover...
But night & day compared to Whedon’s. I’ll watch this again over the weekend.
as someone who didn't care for MOS, and felt BVS was easily one of the worst superhero films ever made, I have to say this is better than I expected it to be in terms of enjoyment. It's easily better than the theatrical cut, and I'd say it's Snyders best DCEU movie. I think Cyborg was the standout for sure, and I definitely enjoyed the character development Snyder gave him.
I still feel like Snyder just doesn't understand Batman at all aside from making him a brute and making his cape move, which isn't surprising considering how bad he was written in BVS. I enjoyed him the most here out of his DCEU appearances though, and I did enjoy some of the banter between him and the team as well as Alfred.
Wonder Woman had some badass fight scenes too and I enjoyed Gals performance like always. And Flash was fine, I guess, although I still really don't know how to feel about Ezra Millers performance still.
the 4 hour runtime was at times too much, even though it helped Cyborgs story. It also exposed how little Superman is in the movie.
overall, it's definitely Snyders best DCEU film, but what does that say really? It took a 4 hour movie for me to see some proper character development with characters, particularly Cyberborg who is by far the standout. I think Snyder certainly has a vision for these characters, one that I don't entirely agree with, but a vision no doubt. I'm glad fans were able to see this cut of the movie, and I think the majority of Snyder fans will adore this film. It's easily his most coherent DC film to day, and that's a compliment as I am somebody who isn't generally a huge fan of his DC films. But what's here is good enough to be much superior to the theatrical version.
With that being said, I really want to move on from the Snyderverse now and I think it'd be what's best for everybody. If they want to continue Snyders vision, it should be in animated form.
Anyway, I'm ready for the Matt Reeves era to begin.
I liked how Flash stopped joking so often as things got more serious. His time-travel scene stole the show for me. No jokes, no silly smiles, his lines were actually very cool. The music was great. This culminating with Victor saying that he was not alone nor broken really got me emotional. Best scene in the movie, IMO.
I think every Superman scene was cut too soon. His interaction with his mother and Lois should have been longer. His meeting with Alfred should include a conversation about Bruce or something. His flight was too short (even the music feels like it ends too abruptly), and of course, he should have a fight with Steppenwolf in the molds of the fight with Zod. He was out for 3/4 of the movie, he didn't need Wonder Woman or Aquaman helping him. That should have been a mano a mano showdown. I feel bad for Henry, really. And as a Superman fan, I feel bad that only Man of Steel does the character justice. I still love BvS:UE but this triolgy became Batman's show too early.
When they literally pause a movie for a woman to say a girl can be whatever she wants or that she doesn't belong to anyone, I can't help but roll my eyes. If you really NEED to add those scenes to a movie, there are better ways to do it. But hey, if the rich old white men running movie studios want things to be like that, what can we do right? I don't fall for it. It makes the movie look much more like a product (and social justice is a very lucrative business nowadays). With all that said, it's still better than how Disney handles this. Still, I like Snyder's WW and her theme is the most memorable superhero theme of the last decade or maybe more.
Alfred was great in this. Loved all his scenes.
I don't like Batman's tactical suit. But I love Batfleck in general. I'd love a show with Ben, Jeremy, and yes, Jared. I like his Knightmare Joker.
Ohh and of course, Steppenwolf. He looked and sounded great. He was quite realistic in several scenes, I was impressed. His armor is freaking awesome. I kinda felt bad for him during some scenes, quite the accomplishment for a superhero villain who wants to take over the world. Under that armor, there was a literally fragile beast. Cool concept.
The 4 hours felt like 2. The movie is very enjoyable. Junkie's soundtrack is superior in every aspect to the generic Danny Elfman load of crap but still inferior to Zimmer.
And finally, I gotta say I'm done with the evil Superman approach and if this project ever goes further, I'd love to see Superman leading the team and being everything Jor-el and Jonathan expected him to be. I know it's hard to pull this off, but after 3 movies, it would be cool to see Superman accepted and praised by mankind, joining Kal in the sun.
I found this movie to be underwhelming. It definitely did not need to be four hours, either.
Batman was pretty "eh" in this. Truth be told, he really didn't need to have the role he had in this film. At least with the Whedon cut, they kind of examine why he had that role and not someone else.
Superman actually shined more in the Whedon cut. It's hard to believe that this trilogy/saga is actually supposed to revolve around him.
I'm sure those that think that Wonder Woman isn't great without a sword and shield will love her in this film, but for me, she was also "eh" overall in terms of character.
The Flash is just as unfunny here as in the original cut.
Aquaman is about the same.
Cyborg is, of course, the most notable improvement from the theatrical version in that he has more screentime and a bigger storyarc. That doesn't make his screentime or storyarc any more compelling to me, but it is what it is.
Surprisingly, Jared Leto's scene is the one scene in the film I felt invested in.
Overall, this was pretty dull to me. While it's more cohesive than the TC, I think there were some things the TC did better.
Just finished the film. Overall, I liked it more than the theatrical cut, but this film did not meet the hype. It very much felt the 4 hours it was, and the Snyder elements I dislike were still there.
My biggest intrigue was how Snyder would handle Superman. Shockingly, Superman got the shaft here and reinforced my belief that Snyder doesn't get Superman. He was used as nothing more than muscle here. Superman received much better handling in the TC. Too bad for Cavill fans, as he is likely not coming back and us Superman fans are likely facing a huge debacle with this rumored Abrams Superman film.
One thing I will say, I can understand why Fisher was upset that his character was reduced in the TC. He had some nice moments here and was probably the best character in the film. Whether or not his allegations are true is another matter.
I thought Miller came across even more terrible as The Flash than in the TC. I am really disappointed that WB has opted to keep him vs recasting. All around wrong choice. The rest of the cast came across bland compared to their solo movies. I also think they lacked chemistry.
The dream sequence was dumb, but did show Leto could be better under the right circumstances.
The inclusion of Martian Manhunter was very bit of a shoehorned cameo as the suspected. It made no sense on many levels. Design wise, don't quite know how to feel about it. CGI was was questionable, which was a running theme throughout the film.
I give the film a 5/10. It wasn't bad, but is I would not go as far as to say it was good. Just okay. It certainly did not meet the hype, but it was not the disaster I was expecting. Unfortunately for many Snyder fans hoping this will restore his vision, I don't believe it is the home run it needed to be to push WB to continue on with any of these stories.
Just finished watching it but first impressions are this is a 100% upgrade on the TC.
No stupid cell phone footage, no Russian family, no awful red filter on everything.
The only thing - and it's a minor nitpick is that I wish Superman would have been back in the Red/Blue for the shirt rip.
- The Pacing.This didn't need to be 4 hours. You could cut this to 3-hours or, dare I say it, 2 hours and 45 minutes and it'd be a much better movie for it. Many scenes are superflous, gratuitous or downright boring and don't contribute to the plot or the characters.
Alright, I will give a more review in here and try and keep this spoiler free. (anything questionable will be tagged as such) This is the same review as in the main thread with more details.
First of all...
Ok...now that I am calmed down a bit...
Damnit...sorry I am better now!
Ok normally I do a "Pros/Cons/Other" type list but I feel today will be "Awesome/Less Awesome/Still Way Better Than Whedon" list
Awesome:
Holy crap there is a friggin story! As I said a couple pages ago this film cannot be cut down there is just so much story to tell. And, the story rocks! Certain elements I nitpick and probably will discuss in the spoiler thread for the time being but Kevin Smith nailed it with his review. (minus some of the hyperbole) This is like a 6 issue event comic series filled with splash pages and facepalm style mistakes and inspirational dialogue. It is a bit hokey at times, it is cliche, and it is everything people wanted back when BvS came out. One thing I noticed, that I will pay attention to when I marathon, is that the film made me not really like BvS as much as I used to. Not because it is bad, but because this film shows the missteps of that film...even the UE. BvS almost doesn't fit now. On the opposite end though it made me love MOS even more than I already do. (it is on my Mount Rushmore) I can't really say more without spoilers but yes this in part because of Superman.
Batman. We needed to see this type of Batman BEFORE BvS. A Batfleck film should have come first because seeing Batfleck this way makes you crave more. He is not only beast mode, but he is tactical and actually acts like a human. He is a little bit hokey which is a massive departure from BvS and I liked it a lot. Affleck was having fun you can feel it. It backs up my belief that BvS should have been two films: BvS and Worlds Finest. It is too big of a jump in a small amount of time for us to believe he loves Superman this much so quickly. Reminds me of when a heel turns babyface in wrestling sometimes it is just too jarring. That said I wish his solo had happened cause he was awesome.
Wonder Woman. She is just so much better in this than WW84. As @DeadStroke I believe said this feels like a sequel to Wonder Woman. Gal is just awesome and The Amazons are amazing! Gal is just everything and Paradise Island is like a home away from home. Steppenwolf vs. the Amazons could be an episode of a mini series. I would watch an hour of that fight and never even blink. Their contingency plans to protect the Mother Box makes soooooooooooo much more sense. (with a little logic flaw thrown in but its a comic film!) I see why people mentioned Zack directing WW3...his Amazons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of WW84 and it isnt close.
In the same vein, Aquaman's film feels right in line with this as well. (especially the characterization of Arthur) Well except Heavy Metal Vulku...way better look than his man-bun I know Momoa is not everyone's fave cause he is kind of a DudeBro in their eyes but I have loved him since Stargate Atlantis and Snyder really wrote a great version of Aquaman for him to play. This fits Wan's film (I mean it takes place like 5 minutes before it!) but to me Arthur has more character in this than his film. (which is great for different reasons) He and Gal had a couple nice scenes together which makes me want an Amazons/Atlantis film.
Cyborg. WB needs to do whatever it takes to keep Fisher around. We need either a series or a film with him like yesterday! Man is Cyborg awesome and his character changes the most from beginning to the end. He was cold and *ahem* robotic at the beginning but as the film progressed he became more human. Look, I dont say this lightly and I am adding zero hyperbole (way too tired for that) but this is a star making role and a film/series that could be relatively cheap and really blow the Multiverse up! Fire Geoff Johns, shift Hamada away...I dont care but figure it out and do it now. Hell put him in the Flash film as a co-star they worked well together. I dont care but they cannot under any circumstances let this be the last time Fisher plays Cyborg. Cyborg can be a breakout star that relaunches the DCEU Multiverse. (which obviously includes the Snyderverse)
The Flash. Not at first...but his arch turns out awesome. Even his weird running makes sense when you see it later and Ezra was a lot of fun throughout the film. His part of the final battle
where he makes time go backwards!
is one of the best visualizations of that action (wont spoil) I have ever seen and I have watched a lot of scifi over the years. He isnt classic Barry (sort of an amalgam of Barry and Wally) but I really dug the way he was portrayed. I am looking forward to his film now...
Grumpy Steppy. (joke from main thread) The MVP! I literally went from a week ago hating his outfit to loving it almost as soon as he jumps on screen. Weird Viggo the Carpathian screams aside he is a friggin BEAST. He also has a purpose outside of just being the bad guy. He has his motivations and is done a lot better than say Ronan the Accuser was. (not starting a fight just giving a comparison in my mind) Whedon did him dirty. Hell Desaad did him dirty...man I love that! I always liked when in the comics Darkseid's minions were always scheming against each other. I won't lie at one point I felt sorry for him...
History Lesson. That could have been an episode of the mini series all on its own it is that sick! Seeing the Old Gods, the Amazons, The Atlanteans and Man fight was awesome but I want MORE!
Knightmare. Letoker still sucks but my lord he and Batfleck do have chemistry. I will say that Letoker in that scene reminds me of the Joker in the Nu52 Batman and Robin by Morrison. Batfleck steals that scene though Mera was cool minus the awful accent.
The JL Motivation. Their discussion of how and why to bring Superman back makes way more sense now! Whoever wrote that part gets a gold star for the day. Yeah it is kinda lame and comic booky but ITS SUPPOSED TO BE!
Less Awesome: (still great)
Darkseid. Part of the time he scares the BeJesus out of me but honestly...I dunno we don't see enough of him to really get the vibe. We needed more history of the 4th World or flashbacks to him conquering other worlds to show how Earth repelling him was his great defeat. I mean I know we all know, but I think that if a sequel happens that needs to be part of it. Darkseid is...
Some of the effects are clearly not finished off. Not a huge deal but it made the green screen noticeable in a few scenes. Unlike Whedon though it was never so glaring you wanted to poke your eyes out.
Alfred. He is pretty entertaining but, and I dont know why, for some reason he reminded me of Doc Brown. I was really punchy at that point but my brain wont let it go. He is fun but in reality I feel he serves little purpose for a lot of it. I do love me some Jeremy Irons though
JK Simmons. Honestly, he never had the gravitas I was hoping for but he looked cool. Shout out to his toupee! I dunno I think Jeffrey Wright has blinded me...
Knightcrawler. Finally done *ahem* justice. The beats from the early trailers played so well!
Still Better Than Whedon:
Literally everything else. I will go into detail elsewhere but there is not one shot, one scene, one line, one facial expression that isn't better in this film. And remember I dont hate Josstice League like many. (just has zero rewatchability) Every decision he made, no matter the reason, was wrong. And I dont care if it was a time mandate he should have never reshot anything. If they wanted a 2 hour film split the film in half or edit it to hell but anything is better than what he did. It would not have worked as well as this cut, but it would have been 100% better than Josstice League. Hell Snyder's humor was better too and wasn't forced at all.
Now...here is where I do go against what I think the majority in this thread will say. If this was released in theaters post BvS it would have been mixed at best. Not because it is dark and brooding, but because it just doesn't match up. To me it is a much better film than even the UE, but BvS was such a toxic/divisive film this film would have had 2 strikes against it. On top of that, the 4 hour cut is pretty much the only cut I think can work. Since they didn't do a Cyborg film or a Flash film (and Aquaman was coming out right after) you need every minute to be able to tell their stories. I think now critics are far enough away from BvS that they can see that Snyder wasn't kidding when he said JL was the Return of the Jedi of this trilogy. Of course that isnt really true because there was obviously going to be more. In that regard one thing in spoiler tags:
The Bruce/Lois thing was never changed. They shined a bright light on that in the Epilogue...though it was a dream I guess.
I give the movie a 9 on first watch. I wish it was a mini series because honestly 4 hours wasnt enough. We needed an episode on the 4th World/History Lesson, one on Lois and her life in a World Without a Superman. We need to know more about the Knightmare. BTW:
YOU SEE DEAD KILOWOG!!
We need to see more of life as Cyborg or Flash or the aftermath of Steppenwolf on Themyscira. There is so much more that we need!!
Stayed up till 4 am watching it, so I'll probably need to re-watch when I am less tired. However, my brief review is definitely much better than the TC. Didn't feel the 4 hours to be honest. It moves quite well for me. Almost all things that I hated from the tc were removed. Enjoyed the characters and the arcs (Steppy included), but I wish we spent more time with Supes finding himself again. The action scenes were good. Diana is the standout for action for me., My favorite parts is when Diana does that swing onto the platform in the tunnel scene, and then she holsters her lasso and pulls out her shield. Love how fluid the movement was and her stance. Also I loved me some bullet reflecting in the bank scene. There was some cheesy dialogue and the music... was not the best imo. It felt extremely repetitive and you don't need to change the song to the character theme almost every single time during a fight sequence. I can definitely see the GA liking it more than the previous iterations and the heroism/hope/optimism gets pushed out more on this one. The graphics was for the most part good Considering the time crunch for both the music and the gfx, I think they did great and I'm willing to let some things slide. That being said, I actually prefer MOS and BvS to this movie. They feel more distinctive, less safe to me. Still I thoroughly enjoyed the movie. 7.5-8.0/10. This may change on subsequent viewings.
Wow. That opening scene of Superman's cries echoing out all across the planes, from Lex Luthor to Mera to the Amazons, could just as well serve as a death knell for the theatrical cut in the public consciousness forever lol.
It feels like it's trying to be less of a comic book movie, and more like an actual comic in its own right. And largely succeeding, too. Scenes that would otherwise feel superfluous in an ordinary, theatrically released movie, instead feel like weighty side panels in a graphic novel. I really enjoyed it. Perhaps not the best movie overall in the comic book genre, but also perhaps one of the best 'comic book' movies. If that makes any sense.
The main criticisms I have are par the course for Zack Snyder's DC films, i.e., Superman feels like a nothing character, etc., etc. Mercifully though, weighed up against everything else the film has going for it, it doesn't feel quite as big a flaw. I give it an 8.5. Would love to see more of this DCEU.
Will go more in-depth about this movie in a review later, but I really enjoyed Snyder's JL bar some major issues that stick out to me. Also I think people who are Snyder fans on here will have an absolute blast with it while the majority of folks who don't enjoy Snyder's content in general probably won't get anything out of it (as this thread's divisive reviews have already shown) except maybe stomach it better than MOS and BvS.
By and large, I liked this movie. It's clearly superior to the theatrical cut. The emotion and the feeling is also there from time to time, which is a treat. Cyborg is the true heart of this movie, and I think it basically works. The biggest improvement is Steppenwolf; the changes they made create a gigantic difference.
I personally didn't like any of the epilogue. It was bad...for me, almost comically bad. There was no need for it, honestly. I do feel like a good 45 minutes to an hour could have been cut from this film. There were times that I caught myself wanting to fast forward, because it's just overly indulgent at times.
The biggest positive I can say about Snyder’s Cut is that it made me excited for The Flash movie. Miller won me over as Barry here. He wasn’t positioned only as comic relief. He was serious when he needed to be and I loved his interactions with the other league members. Wonder Woman is still my queen as is as awesome as ever. Aquaman was cool though he lacks the personality of his solo movie. Cyborg is an improvement also.
Oddly enough the worst parts of JL are Batman and Superman. It’s kinda sad that I want another JL movie but without them, or least these versions of them. Throw in Shazam, give Martian’s Manhunter a solo movie, then add him in and I’d be down for another JL, but NOT directed by Snyder. I’m tired of his visual aesthetic and I’m beyond ready to move on.
A quick review:
As someone who loathed Justice League on its first release, imagine my surprise that I loved this version. A more cohesive story, better action, and a more serious tone. It felt like there were actual stakes. Maybe that's because of the huge improvement on Steppenwolf and the addition of Darkseid. I'll admit that I've never been a huge Snyder fan but this just blew me away. 8.5/10
The biggest positive I can say about Snyder’s Cut is that it made me excited for The Flash movie. Miller won me over as Barry here. He wasn’t positioned only as comic relief. He was serious when he needed to be and I loved his interactions with the other league members. Wonder Woman is still my queen as is as awesome as ever. Aquaman was cool though he lacks the personality of his solo movie. Cyborg is an improvement also.
Oddly enough the worst parts of JL are Batman and Superman. It’s kinda sad that I want another JL movie but without them, or least these versions of them. Throw in Shazam, give Martian’s Manhunter a solo movie, then add him in and I’d be down for another JL, but NOT directed by Snyder. I’m tired of his visual aesthetic and I’m beyond ready to move on.
On the whole, while this wouldn’t have been my preferred direction for Justice League, and I wouldn’t call this “good” by any stretch, in fact it’s much closer to laughable a lot of the time, but I’m still glad we have this 4 hour 6 chapter epic of a film that gives the goods more than it needed to (Apokalips stuff specifically). And I can’t see many other directors delivering that level of awesomeness.
Will go more in-depth about this movie in a review later, but I really enjoyed Snyder's JL bar some major issues that stick out to me. Also I think people who are Snyder fans on here will have an absolute blast with it while the majority of folks who don't enjoy Snyder's content in general probably won't get anything out of it (as this thread's divisive reviews have already shown) except maybe stomach it better than MOS and BvS.
Agreed with this point about the fans. If you love Snyder, you'll enjoy the heck out of this, if you aren't a fan this will do nothing to persuade you of that opinion. If you're a general audience folk, you'll probably be just as disinterested in this as they were for MOS after first viewing.
As I mentioned before, I hope this is nice closure for the fans of Snyder (I fear it won't). The biggest win for them is it's not getting slammed by critics and fans like BVS.
It was fine enough outing for Snyder's vision. I'm glad he was able to go back and finish this film.
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What an oversimplification, given how she did have connection to her heritage here and showed tremendous kindness and consideration to others, where was that in the sequel? The shoe-horned legend to explain golden armor?
