The 2012 Presidential Debates: Vice-Presidential Debate

[Marx]

Ryan did seem like he didn't genuinely know what he was talking about...

 

[Human Torch]

I wouldn't say Biden sounded totally coherent.The part that got to me was him basically saying "Look,we don't need to worry about Iran right now.Sure they got the fixin's for a nuclear weapon,they just don't have a container for it yet."

 

[TheBat812]

Biden was a bit overzealous at times, but it was clearly out of frustration from debating a man who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Even the moderator was calling Ryan out for not giving any kind of specifics, and justifiably so, because the questions were asked more than once and he dodged an actual answer multiple times.

 

[SuperT]

Biden was a bit overzealous at times, but it was clearly out of frustration from debating a man who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Even the moderator was calling Ryan out for not giving any kind of specifics, and justifiably so, because the questions were asked more than once and he dodged an actual answer multiple times.

Exactly! Biden was frustrated, but his frustration wasn't completely uncalled for by any means.

 

[SentinelMind]

He can't keep himself composed for 90 minutes? You can think your opponent is lying or deceptive and still...keep calm and debate him with the facts. Crying about extra time didn't look professional. That's the problem with Biden's performance...it lacked consistent professonalism for prime time.

 

[Paradoxium]

From now on, when there is something that involves death and despair, post a picture of Biden laughing t:

 

[GoldCrest]

He can't keep himself composed for 90 minutes? You can think your opponent is lying or deceptive and still...keep calm and debate him with the facts. Crying about extra time didn't look professional. That's the problem with Biden's performance...it lacked consistent professonalism for prime time.

Exactly. A man of Biden's age and as a Vice President should know how to compose himself without resorting to smirking and condescendingly laughing at his opponent.

 

[SentinelMind]

...and he couldn't even thank his opponent for being there like Ryan did...which is pretty customary in debates/elections. Biden called Ryan ....Jack Kennedy...and compared him to Sarah Palin. This isn't a biker bar. This is a Presidential debate.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Obama kept himself composed. Look how that went.

Biden fought. That's what the Democrats need.

 

[Paradoxium]

Obama was not an issue of being composed, he had ****** body language. Biden was overcompensating bordering on weird. It's possible to project authority without a creepy smile.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Obama kept himself composed. Look how that went.

Biden fought. That's what the Democrats need.

Yup, I'll take their fighter spirit even if it's borderline manic, over them being a doormat for Romney/Ryan any day of the week.

 

[DACrowe]

My belated thoughts for the forum:

I think Biden slapped Ryan around for the first 60 minutes between Ryan's inability to give a single specific after being prodded repeatedly by the moderator and his opponent, being called out on begging for stimulus money and weakly responding, "that's what we do" in Congress, being called out on empty saber-rattling on Iran and being lumped in with voting for the deficit-exploding wars and tax cuts under Bush as well as supporting attempts to privatize Social Security.

All that said, those who leaned right saw Ryan withstand most of these attacks well enough--even though I think he loses the debate for being able to strongly fight, he didn't look absent-minded or just weakly absent like Obama did a week ago--and can shrug it off as a victory. Biden won the debate, but only by a ledge because while Ryan could barely refute many of Joe's claims and Joe shot down most of his lies, he did so with confidence and calm.

For that reason, and the general fact that few vote on the VP candidate, this will not move the needle. It may help Obama not lose more support, but to gain some back he will have to do it himself next week.

 

[Compi716]

My belated thoughts for the forum:

I think Biden slapped Ryan around for the first 60 minutes between Ryan's inability to give a single specific after being prodded repeatedly by the moderator and his opponent, being called out on begging for stimulus money and weakly responding, "that's what we do" in Congress, being called out on empty saber-rattling on Iran and being lumped in with voting for the deficit-exploding wars and tax cuts under Bush as well as supporting attempts to privatize Social Security.

All that said, those who leaned right saw Ryan withstand most of these attacks well enough--even though I think he loses the debate for being able to strongly fight, he didn't look absent-minded or just weakly absent like Obama did a week ago--and can shrug it off as a victory. Biden won the debate, but only by a ledge because while Ryan could barely refute many of Joe's claims and Joe shot down most of his lies, he did so with confidence and calm.

For that reason, and the general fact that few vote on the VP candidate, this will not move the needle. It may help Obama not lose more support, but to gain some back he will have to do it himself next week.

I wouldn't say that Biden owned Ryan when it came to discussing Benghazi. Ryan was very much on top of that argument, with Biden's claims that Ryan was lying about the State Dept. screwing up and admitting being THE lie (and on the day of the hearings no less!). The Obama campaign has since released a statement saying that what Biden meant was that he and Pres. Obama were not informed (i.e., whoops, he screwed up a bit there).

 

[Fading]

I still think if you watched last nights debate, and the only thing you took away was Biden laughing...you weren't paying attention. I personally thought this was the best presidential centered debate of this, and the last election cycle. In substance if nothing else. Too often debates are softballed, and this was much more direct. I'm also unsure of what to say if you're still undecided this election. Last night made a pretty clear line even clearer. What is it going to take to make someone still undecided form an opinion this time around?

 

[DACrowe]

That disclaimer needs to be on more polls. Hence why I'm always suspect of them in general. They're rarely upfront about how many Republicans they poll compared to Democrats.

Plus it's an online poll (i.e. usually worthless). Real polling requires more than who just clicks a submit button, but instead targets a disparate number of voting demographics to sample a larger population, particularly in swing states (where party affiliation is as likely to swing as voter support).

 

[DACrowe]

I wouldn't say that Biden owned Ryan when it came to discussing Benghazi. Ryan was very much on top of that argument, with Biden's claims that Ryan was lying about the State Dept. screwing up and admitting being THE lie (and on the day of the hearings no less!). The Obama campaign has since released a statement saying that what Biden meant was that he and Pres. Obama were not informed (i.e., whoops, he screwed up a bit there).

True. I was talking more generally about the areas where I think Biden dominated (Iran, Medicare, Stimulus/Deficit/Debt) were in the first hour and maybe a little bit about Afghanistan at the end.

***

Also, to all those saying Biden was too rude...I'd agree to a point. He was more being Obama's much needed attack dog. He had to overcompensate for Obama's lackluster performance last week. He now sets the stage for Obama to, hopefully, redeem himself with a more energetic and convincing second debate performance but one that will be more respectful than Biden's that got that anger the left base wanted vented out of the way.

Of course, it is still on Obama to deliver a strong debate performance next week.

 

[Paradoxium]

Paul Ryan needs a new suit and tailor. The fitting was terrible.

 

[Human Torch]

He can't keep himself composed for 90 minutes? You can think your opponent is lying or deceptive and still...keep calm and debate him with the facts. Crying about extra time didn't look professional. That's the problem with Biden's performance...it lacked consistent professonalism for prime time.

This is a good point.Biden was acting like he didn't get equal time,but he kept cutting into Ryan's rebuttle time.

 

[Human Torch]

Biden's "so you're Jack Kennedy" line was in bad taste too.What?Was he temporarily possessed by the spirit of Lloyd Benson?

 

[Burgundy LaRue]

This is a good point.Biden was acting like he didn't get equal time,but he kept cutting into Ryan's rebuttle time.

It could be argued that if Biden didn't interrupt Ryan, Ryan would have taken away a lot of time from Biden.

Both men got over 41 minutes to speak. Who won is a matter of opinion.

 

[Fading]

I wouldn't say that Biden owned Ryan when it came to discussing Benghazi. Ryan was very much on top of that argument, with Biden's claims that Ryan was lying about the State Dept. screwing up and admitting being THE lie (and on the day of the hearings no less!). The Obama campaign has since released a statement saying that what Biden meant was that he and Pres. Obama were not informed (i.e., whoops, he screwed up a bit there).

I do agree that the white house has botched the handling of this regardless. However I think ppl are entirely too focused on this when it comes to talking foreign policy this election. It was a tragedy, it's still new, but we should not be talking like this represents Obama's entire foreign policy standing. You can disagree with his economic policies back at home, but I don't even see how it can be made to look like Obama and Romney are in the same league on foreign policy.

Obama (even though it sounds cliched how many times we've heard it) has seen many head Al Quadea leaders killed, including Bin Laden. Ended the Iraq war. Surged Afghanistan, and is now set to pull out in 2014. Helped Libya, which led to the death of Qudafi.

Romney...managed to tick our allies off while going to the Olympics. Called Russia our #1 geo-political foe. Thinks what we need now is billions more in defense spending aimed at building more air craft carriers and submarines. Which then need to be used to set up a permanent set of eyes on other countries to police them. Even his running mate just couldn't get that we need to hand Afghanistan off to the Afghan ppl. Romney's also shot his mouth off about every major foreign issue this election cycle before any real info came out making him look just as bad as the Obama white house. Of course Romney has the benefit of flip flopping to the popular stance of the day, or his campaign taking his words back, so it can seem like he was always right to anyone with the memory of a goldfish.

Obama's not close to perfect by any means, but Mitt's about as green as you can get when it comes to a presidential candidate talking foreign policy. Our current generation too often pretends current issues are the only issues ever to have existed, and forget entire histories on subject matters. We're very much a, "what have you done for me lately" crowd. 2 weeks ago everyone was urging Romney to stop talking foreign policy (including his own party). This week we're pretended Romney might even have a leg up on it....it's Bizzaro world, heh.


Edit - Just to clarify, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with talking about the Obama's whitehouse bungling the issue badly. However it bugs me when so many news organizations and ppl act as if this makes Obama and Romney equals on foreign issues.

 

[SuperT]

Biden's "so you're Jack Kennedy" line was in bad taste too.What?Was he temporarily possessed by the spirit of Lloyd Benson?

Funny, if Biden hadn't butted in, they wouldn't have gotten equal time. Ryan would have more than likely gotten more speaking time and would have been let off with more of his is lying like Obama let Romney do last week.

At the end, I think CNN reported that Biden got around 41 minutes and Ryan got around 40 minutes of speaking time.

 

[Paradoxium]

Or he could have spoken less than Biden, because he could have finished a train of thought. How would you know otherwise?

 

[Compi716]

True. I was talking more generally about the areas where I think Biden dominated (Iran, Medicare, Stimulus/Deficit/Debt) were in the first hour and maybe a little bit about Afghanistan at the end.

See, Iran is unique in that I don't really think it's a wholly debatable topic. The "right" thing to do regarding that situation boils down to personal preference, meaning Attack Now vs. Let's Wait and See. Strong, legitimate arguments can be made for either side, but the fact remains: we really have no idea.

Now for me personally, and this shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody that has ever read one of my posts, I side with Attack Now. History has shown us that any world power that sits back with this, "We'll be ready for 'em" attitude while potential threats arm up is always a bad idea. Iran is not any different, regardless of what current US foreign policy thinks (Netanyahu, despite what Biden said last night, obviously has a very different opinion). But I absolutely understand where the other side of the argument comes from.

Although if Ryan really wanted an "Oh snap!" moment, he'd have countered one of Biden's laugh-tracks with some kind of, "The Israeli parents tucking their children into bed aren't laughing about an impending nuclear threat, Vice President Biden" type of line. Oh well.

 

[SV Fan]

See, Iran is unique in that I don't really think it's a wholly debatable topic. The "right" thing to do regarding that situation boils down to personal preference, meaning Attack Now vs. Let's Wait and See. Strong, legitimate arguments can be made for either side, but the fact remains: we really have no idea.

Think I hate about people who debate on Iran, is it constantly gets pushed that they somehow poise a threat to the US. Simple fact is unless you own stocks in Oil companies, Iran poises absolutely no threat at all to people living in the US. Do people honestly believe they will invent a missile that can cross the Atlantic or Pacific Ocean?

What I find even worse is the party that believes people should be left alone by government as much as possible and not bothered by government, pushes the hardest to go to other countries and force this Government's will on them. Who basically died and declared the US is somehow the world's bully telling other countries how to run their lives.

By the way here is a nice history of Iran in recent times

In the 50s they elected a guy who would be considered rather secular by Islam standards Mohammad Mosaddegh. Basically he made the mistake of telling Britain to screw off he is keeping 75% of the oil production for his country. Britain pissed ran to the US to help them get this secular leader out of power and found a way to get a revolt in Iran, supporting more extremist leaders, which basically leads us to where Iran is today.

If anybody wonders why people in the Middle East hate the US, I think this is a perfect example why people hate the US for shoving their nose in their politics with little or no regard for the actual people in those countries, generally for the sake of big business interests.

So now 60 years later with a group the US and other countries sort of pushed into power they have a problem because they basically fulfilled their use and they need to find another puppet who they might have a little more control over.

It should be noted this is the reason the US villainizes Hugo Chavez, despite the fact he won the most recent election with 55% of the popular vote(basically heaven forbid he doesn't bow down to US big business interests, therefore he must be a bad man who is forced into submission by US government polices that in no way benefit the average person who lives here). I am fairly certain Hugo Chazev would be more then willing to sell Oil to the US to generate his country some revenue(while potentially reducing our gas prices), but since he pushes Big Oil out of the way, we can't accept that and have to impose sanctions