Why do people say Zack Snyder doesn’t respect comics?

[Batmannerism]

Glad I bowed out of this thread about 80 posts ago. It didn't go anywhere happy or productive - sic semper trolls I guess.

 

[Superchan]

I bowed out the second this poster started arguing about how art is objective and then proceeded to put words in my mouth just for the sake of turning a discussion into an argument.
I really don't understand why some Zack Snyder fans have adopted this persecuted cultist mentality and feel the need to fight tooth and nail with anybody that doesn't like Snyder's work, it's honestly strange.
The worst thing about all this is that we can expect ALOT more threads like this when the Snyder cut comes out, because I can guarantee you that, at best, his JL cut will divide critics and fans alike ala MOS or is outright rejected ala BvS, which is par the course for Snyder's superhero work.

 

[Babillygunn]

Glad I bowed out of this thread about 80 posts ago. It didn't go anywhere happy or productive - sic semper trolls I guess.

I wish I would’ve been as wise as you! I kept falling for the bait.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I really don't understand why some Zack Snyder fans have adopted this persecuted cultist mentality and feel the need to fight tooth and nail with anybody that doesn't like Snyder's work, it's honestly strange.

I'm a fan of a lot of Snyder's stuff, but I just shake my head at these Zacko-wackos.

 

[Detective Conan]

I'm a fan of a lot of Snyder's stuff, but I just shake my head at these Zacko-wackos.

“Zacko Wackos” is a really good term for them, lol.

 

[The Joker]

Some things never change. Four years later and detractors are still being accused of just not "getting" what Snyder was doing.

 

[Batmannerism]

Glad I bowed out of this thread about 80

I wish I would’ve been as wise as you! I kept falling for the bait.

This particular troll was a lot more subtle than most. Some of what they said made some sense - from a certain point of view. It wasn't hard to get sucked in or to get stuck trying to explain things and make valid comparisons. So don't beat yourself up.

I bowed out the second this poster started arguing about how art is objective and then proceeded to put words in my mouth just for the sake of turning a discussion into an argument.
I really don't understand why some Zack Snyder fans have adopted this persecuted cultist mentality and feel the need to fight tooth and nail with anybody that doesn't like Snyder's work, it's honestly strange.
The worst thing about all this is that we can expect ALOT more threads like this when the Snyder cut comes out, because I can guarantee you that, at best, his JL cut will divide critics and fans alike ala MOS or is outright rejected ala BvS, which is par the course for Snyder's superhero work.

I hope you're wrong about lots more threads like this popping up - I suspect most rational people know that his cut of JL is unlikely to make it into a classic that rivals the Avengers, even if it does improve the film.

Personally, I spent a lot of time defending Man of Steel because I think it gets more right than wrong- although very gradually, over time, its flaws have made me rethink that a little. I still enjoy it, but there are some aspects of it that clearly were not thought through much at all. Mind you that's not because I have any particular love for Snyder - if anything B v S has all of MoS flaws and none of it's good aspects and JL is more cartoonish than an episode of the old JL cartoon.

 

[Superchan]

I hope you're wrong about lots more threads like this popping up - I suspect most rational people know that his cut of JL is unlikely to make it into a classic that rivals the Avengers, even if it does improve the film.

Personally, I spent a lot of time defending Man of Steel because I think it gets more right than wrong- although very gradually, over time, its flaws have made me rethink that a little. I still enjoy it, but there are some aspects of it that clearly were not thought through much at all. Mind you that's not because I have any particular love for Snyder - if anything B v S has all of MoS flaws and none of it's good aspects and JL is more cartoonish than an episode of the old JL cartoon.

Believe me Batmannerism the boards will EXPLODE with posts when the Snyder cut comes out because if there is one thing Zack's work excels at it's dividing opinions.
Many of the ardent Snyder fans (who have since left the boards) will come back in full force with the "I told you so"s, even though I am willing to bet the kent farm that the Snyder cut will be as divisive as MOS and BvS ultimate cut. To be honest it's not just the Snyder fans but also many DCEU fans who can't seem to accept that the 'Snyderverse' was a flop that called for a major (if not very questionable) course correction from WB that lead to the horrible JL and Snyder getting fired in the first place. Some of those fans are still trying to hang to every thread of hope that this new cut will prove that Snyder's work was misunderstood by most of us fans who simply "didn't get it".

To be all honest a part of me is glad that this cut is coming out because, even though I hate his superhero work with passion, I think that Zack was hard done by those monkeys at WB, also those ardent Snyder fans - love'em or hate'em - really fought tooth and nail for this cut and deserve to be rewarded. I just hope that he won't f*** up superman even further than he already has, because while I doubt that WB are relying on Snyder to raise interest in Cavill's Superman's return, the Snyder cut will be the first time we've seen Henry in the suit in like 4-5 yrs and it's bound to get the ball rolling either towards victory or hell.

 

[Mysteryman]

I'm a fan of a lot of Snyder's stuff, but I just shake my head at these Zacko-wackos.

There is actually a Facebook page called The Church of Snyder

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

There is actually a Facebook page called The Church of Snyder

Really??

What do his followers call themselves, di-sny-ples?

 

[Babillygunn]

Really??

What do his followers call themselves, di-sny-ples?

Good one. I’m impressed!

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Good one. I’m impressed!

 

[flickchick85]

Really??

What do his followers call themselves, di-sny-ples?

I feel like they'd get confused with House of Mouse worshippers, lol.

 

[Monochron]

From what I have read in this thread there is no doubt in my mind Redd5 is a big fan of the Man of Steel Answers Insight Commentary Podcast.

 

[Holy Slapper]

There is actually a Facebook page called The Church of Snyder

Is Tyrone Magnus there? Or John Campea?

 

[The Batman]

Not to be overly dramatic, but such is the existential crisis of sorts that comes from movies being the biggest, most popular versions of these characters. In people's minds they have added responsibility not associated with an elseworlds comic, which also has the advantage of a specific branding that signals what it is.

The whole "The films are just like elseworlds comics" is a false equivalency.

If I'm a comic book reader in 1986, and The Dark Knight Returns came out and I hated it...I still have the more classic style Batman appearing monthly in "Batman" and "Detective Comics"

Meanwhile, with the live action films...didn't like Nolan Batman when it came out? You were stuck with that for 7 years. You didn't like Burton or Schumacher? You were stuck with that for 8 years...followed by an 8 year hiatus. You basically had to wait 16 years for a live action Batman film that you liked.

 

[flickchick85]

The "Elseworlds" moniker denotes "not the mainstream version," whereas pretty much any tent-pole blockbuster is already more mainstream than any comics version by default.

 

[Babillygunn]

Agreed. It’s in the word itself. “Elseworlds” means “something else”. Whereas if the film is a huge tent pole blockbuster, there is nothing else. The mere fact that Justice League Mortal was shelved because WB thought that audiences could not process a different Batman while The Dark Knight trilogy was underway is evidence that these aren’t intended to be elseworlds stories but definitive characterizations.

as to the argument that people get upset over Snyder’s Batman killing whereas giving a pass to Burton and Nolan whose Batman did the same thing: people did get upset over Burton’s Batman killing. Backlash to scenes like this:


Are a large part of what led to Schumacher taking over. And Nolan’s Batman’s no kill rule was kind of a big theme running through that trilogy. It Arguably was what delineated him from Ras and motivated Joker.

 

[SupermanFan]

As soon as I saw this thread created I was like...

 

[batfreakforever]

Zac Snyder respects and loves the characters but he wants to ask and show the tuff questions that most people would only really answer in an elseworld tale or one shot and not in main continuity like a film series.
He wants them challenged and dragged through the ringer.
His DCEU are the heros we know and love. With characters like Batman and Superman that have been adapted numerous times in film, he doesn't just want to just do the same old thing. He wants to show us that these characters aren't perfect and are flawed like us.

 

[Herofan]

In comics Batman isn't a killer.

He sure has come close to, even tried to kill the Joker.

Superman is not a brooding character he is an character of hope and inspiration.

But he probably would be a lot more brooding and less sure of himself if Jonathan Kent or someone else close to him died especially in a traumatic way, that's a change to the character's story/background and resulting personality where the different personality seem pretty in-line with how the comic book character would react and be different.

 

[The Guard]

Superman is often seen brooding in the comics, at least post Man of Steel run and prior to MAN OF STEEL the movie. Just not so much in public. But there are plenty of stories where Clark worries about his role in various events, mourns people, mourns mistakes he has made, questions himself on what to do, etc. The problem with Snyder's take on Superman isn't that he brooded, its that it wasn't balanced out with hope and optimism, though I think MOS got there to a degree, especially in his dealings with Hamilton and the military.

 

[Batmannerism]

Zac Snyder respects and loves the characters but he wants to ask and show the tuff questions that most people would only really answer in an elseworld tale or one shot and not in main continuity like a film series.
He wants them challenged and dragged through the ringer.
His DCEU are the heros we know and love. With characters like Batman and Superman that have been adapted numerous times in film, he doesn't just want to just do the same old thing. He wants to show us that these characters aren't perfect and are flawed like us.

Oh f@#$ ( pardon my language) back we go to the beginning ! Round and round !

Not that I disrespect anyone's opinion or would want to shut down free speech but this thread seems to be going nowhere - @flickchick85 your Godzilla stomping powers might be required again soon if things start ti get out of hand again.

Two comments though:

1) @batfreakforever you might want to go back and look through the past posts in this thread and you'll see some compelling arguments about why everything you've said about Zack Snyder is questionable. You're totally entitled to your opinion, but a lot have people have deconstructed Snyder's deconstruction of Batman and Superman and it might not be quite the thought provoking and challenging approach to them that you might think.

2) for everyone, maybe a better thread subject might be " what films would Zack Snyder be the perfect director for? " Clearly it isn't superhero films, if it were the majority of people ( particularly superhero fans) would have reacted positively to them.

However, Snyder might be the perfect guy for the next Transformers film, or maybe a Blade movie ?
Maybe if he had to do one more cbm, he could do the Hulk some justice.

The guy has some talents - I watched Man of Steel last night and there are a bunch of great things about the movie - the establishing shots of Kansas during Superman's childhood flashbacks are pretty breathtaking- there are some great moments in Watchmen too.

Cheers.

 

[batfreakforever]

Oh f@#$ ( pardon my language) back we go to the beginning ! Round and round !

Not that I disrespect anyone's opinion or would want to shut down free speech but this thread seems to be going nowhere - @flickchick85 your Godzilla stomping powers might be required again soon if things start ti get out of hand again.

Two comments though:

1) @batfreakforever you might want to go back and look through the past posts in this thread and you'll see some compelling arguments about why everything you've said about Zack Snyder is questionable. You're totally entitled to your opinion, but a lot have people have deconstructed Snyder's deconstruction of Batman and Superman and it might not be quite the thought provoking and challenging approach to them that you might think.

2) for everyone, maybe a better thread subject might be " what films would Zack Snyder be the perfect director for? " Clearly it isn't superhero films, if it were the majority of people ( particularly superhero fans) would have reacted positively to them.

However, Snyder might be the perfect guy for the next Transformers film, or maybe a Blade movie ?
Maybe if he had to do one more cbm, he could do the Hulk some justice.

The guy has some talents - I watched Man of Steel last night and there are a bunch of great things about the movie - the establishing shots of Kansas during Superman's childhood flashbacks are pretty breathtaking- there are some great moments in Watchmen too.

Cheers.

I don't need to go back through the thread. I have my own opinion and its right for me.
I like Snyders films and he's perfectly fit for superheroes. Especially for the DCEU.
With AT&T in charge who finally are all in with Snyder and not the idiots in charge of WB as before.
Don't be surprised if Snyder has even more projects lined up in the DCEU after the Snyder's Justice League Cut is released and even more so if its a hit. He supposedly has even more say then before.
Supposedly Snyder isn't right for comic book adaptions but he's done 300, Watchmen, Man Of Steel, BVS Ultimate Edition, His massive Justice League Cut ect. Had main involvement in casting the DCEU and producing those other DCEU films.
Hes done comic book movies with the biggest people in Comics for 15 years. Yeah he isnt right for Comic book adaptions but hey thats just an opinion right.

 

[Batmannerism]

I don't need to go back through the thread. I have my own opinion and its right for me.
I like Snyders films and he's perfectly fit for superheroes. Especially for the DCEU.
With AT&T in charge who finally are all in with Snyder and not the idiots in charge of WB as before.
Don't be surprised if Snyder has even more projects lined up in the DCEU after the Snyder's Justice League Cut is released and even more so if its a hit. He supposedly has even more say then before.
Supposedly Snyder isn't right for comic book adaptions but he's done 300, Watchmen, Man Of Steel, BVS Ultimate Edition, His massive Justice League Cut ect. Had main involvement in casting the DCEU and producing those other DCEU films.
Hes done comic book movies with the biggest people in Comics for 15 years. Yeah he isnt right for Comic book adaptions but hey thats just an opinion right.

Having an opinion, and being open to modify it based on information from external sources and internal contemplation is also called having an open mind, and shows a capacity for personal growth.

Having an opinion and sticking to it no matter what is a different story.

I said he wasn't right for superhero films, not comic book adaptations. In fact I mentioned Watchmen in a mostly positive way. 300 is not a superhero film, it got reasonable reviews

As for Snyders success record with superhero films:

Watchmen ( if you understand it, its actually an anti superhero film) reasonable reviews but barely made back its $180m budget.

Man of Steel , decent box office but average reviews and divided the fan base and critics.

Batman vs Superman, big opening weekend followed by record breaking drop off. Generally poor reviews. It's not worth comparing B v S against Captain America Civil War, because CW crushes it.

Justice League, mediocre reviews ( better than B v S ) reasonable box office return - I say reasonable because $657m on a $300m budget isn't a great return- compare with Thor Ragnarok ( $800m on a $180m budget) and Spider Man Homecoming, again around $800m on a $ 175m budget,both with much better reviews than JL)

These are not opinions, these are facts.
If you look at those results, compared to any MCU film, except maybe Iron Man 2 and Thor The Dark World, then they don't measure up too well.

Compare the results of Snyder's films with those of Aquaman, Shazam and Wonder Woman and he is the worst performing director the DCEU has used - yes Suicide Squad was poorly received, although it made reasonable money, but then David Ayer has only underperformed on this single film, while Snyder has underperformed on three.

What does the evidence about Snyder's performance as a director on superhero films suggest about his overall suitability for making superhero films ?


Who knows how Zack Snyder's Justice League cut will turn out ?Maybe it will be awesome, but based on his prior form that seems unlikely.

If you like Snyder that's all you have to say. I'm not saying you're wrong to like him . Go for it. But your post is heavy on sarcasm and light on facts, if you want to convince anyone besides yourself that he's the right guy to make superhero films.