Thor: Love and Thunder - RATE AND REVIEW THREAD(TAG SPOILERS!)

[Frodo]

Vehemently.

I don't hate B&R, but still.

As someone who's old enough to remember the fallout with Batman and Robin in the 90s, it's wild to see fans today try to compare Love and Thunder to that.

 

[Daywalker89]

As fans , we tend to grade these film much harder than the average Joe or Jane who goes to the movies.

At the same time, Marvel has close to a couple decades worth of very good will with the GA.
That's very hard to shake, even with a film that fandom and geek pundits may consider below par.

The Marvel Studio brand pretty much guarantee's , at the very least, you'll probably have fun for a couple hours.

For alot of people, that's good enough .

That can be hard for alot of fans to except at times, since we take these films so seriously.

But sometimes, people just appreciate being entertained for an afternoon or evening and they aren't gonna obsess about what the film did or didn't do, or what it should or shouldn't have done.

That's just how it is alot of times for general audiences.

Very well said Frodo, ive often talked about this with my close circle. I honestly don't know why fans can't really see this perspective. Marvel films overall are ingrained in our entertainment these days. Look at the comedy films these days, the genre hardly exists because of the amount of cancel culture or general choice of words that will get you fired.

Instead Marvel have managed to capture that genre and laced it with there light hearted characters from there the Marvel Universe its genious its why GOTG did say well. The amount of times ive heard and seen people on dating apps say swipe right if your into Marvel(or left if your not) or that Marvel films are in there bios. Its a culture shift and i will say bluntly that the fans are not the demographic anymore. The GA are. Weather fans of marvel can accept that i don't know but its no surprise phase 4 is divisive. Interesting times ahead people as someone who has a hardon for the lower tier CB's like Blade, Punisher and Daredevil characters. Im really intrigued in how they will handle there characterizations under Marvel Disney.

 

[BigThor]

That was his point, people dying and coming back in the exact same movie lowered the stakes big time.



It’s no where near B&R. But I gotta be honest I have not been this disappointed in a CBM in a good while.

Zeus dying or not dying would not have increased or decrease the stakes....good grief.

 

[NotNickFury]

Love and Thunder is not a perfect film by any means, but some of you are being a tad bit extreme.

Based on what metric? Is it not possible that some folks just won't like or love the film as much as others?

Hell, I love The Batman and No Way Home, just taking two recent examples, but know many in those fandoms who dislike both for various reasons. Wouldn't call that extreme, though. Everyone's not gonna like everything.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Zeus dying or not dying would not have increased or decrease the stakes....good grief.

Not everyone thinks like you buddy.

Zeus, Korg and Jane all died in the movie but either came back or were given a way back by the end. That kinda makes the stakes low at best and non-existent at the worst.

 

[Fosterson]

Not everyone thinks like you buddy.

Zeus, Korg and Jane all died in the movie but either came back or were given a way back by the end. That kinda makes the stakes low at best and non-existent at the worst.

To be fair, fake deaths are hardly a new phenomenon in the MCU. You and I are both big fans of the first Thor movie, and yet that film has 2 fake-out deaths (Thor when he gets slapped by the Destroyer, and Loki at the end). I take it that you liked MoM a lot and yet does anyone really believe that we won't see Wanda again?

And literally all the deaths in Infinity War have now been undone.

 

[DyeLorean]

Any death, any character development, any *anything* is fairly meaningless once the concept of the multiverse is introduced. If anything can happen, then nothing happens.

 

[Fosterson]

Any death, any character development, any *anything* is fairly meaningless once the concept of the multiverse is introduced. If anything can happen, then nothing happens.

That is a legitimate criticism of where the whole MCU is heading right now. The alternate realities stuff in Endgame was cool but its now opened a pandora's box that isn't good for stakes.

 

[Filmfreak]

Any death, any character development, any *anything* is fairly meaningless once the concept of the multiverse is introduced. If anything can happen, then nothing happens.

That's a 100% true. Though to be fair I don't think the stakes in the MCU were ever particularly high to begin with.

 

[DyeLorean]

That is a legitimate criticism of where the whole MCU is heading right now. The alternate realities stuff in Endgame was cool but its now opened a pandora's box that isn't good for stakes.

Look, I'm fine with the Multiverse as a "chapter" of the MCU. Explore the possibilities, give us cool crossovers, whatever. But after a while, close it down. Make some big event where all universes collapse until only one stands: bring back stakes or at least some sort of verisimilitude to the whole thing.

And the Multiverse is only a part of how complicated everything has become... don't get me started on the TVA!

 

[BigThor]

Based on what metric? Is it not possible that some folks just won't like or love the film as much as others?

Hell, I love The Batman and No Way Home, just taking two recent examples, but know many in those fandoms who dislike both for various reasons. Wouldn't call that extreme, though. Everyone's not gonna like everything.

I said what I said and never said anyone had to like everything, how could I even say that when I myself don't even like everything.

I don't like the tonal clash, I don't really like Korg, I don't really care for goof ball Thor, I don't like how we don't get to see Gorr murdering many gods, I think the script is supbar etc.

 

[BigThor]

Not everyone thinks like you buddy.

Zeus, Korg and Jane all died in the movie but either came back or were given a way back by the end. That kinda makes the stakes low at best and non-existent at the worst.

That's fine.

 

[NotNickFury]

I said what I said and never said anyone had to like everything, how could I even say that when I myself don't even like everything.

I don't like the tonal clash, I don't really like Korg, I don't really care for goof ball Thor, I don't like how we don't get to see Gorr murdering many gods, I think the script is supbar etc.

Those all seem to be similar criticisms that others have had, which is fair. So with that in mind, how are others' views of the film or their dislike of it any more, as you said, a tad bit extreme, compared to yours?

 

[BigThor]

Those all seem to be similar criticisms that others have had, which is fair. So with that in mind, how are others' views of the film or their dislike of it any more, as you said, a tad bit extreme, compared to yours?

You can have similar criticisms and still take them to the extreme.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

To be fair, fake deaths are hardly a new phenomenon in the MCU. You and I are both big fans of the first Thor movie, and yet that film has 2 fake-out deaths (Thor when he gets slapped by the Destroyer, and Loki at the end). I take it that you liked MoM a lot and yet does anyone really believe that we won't see Wanda again?

And literally all the deaths in Infinity War have now been undone.

You make a good point but we all knew Thor, the title character wasn’t staying dead and we all knew by then Loki was going to be the villain in the first Avengers movie. So it ain’t quite the same.

The stakes if MoM were more how far Wanda had fallen in pursuit of her own happiness. We all knew the MCU wasn’t done with Lizzie Olsen the girl is a star. So her redemption story will actually make for good drama.

One of my biggest criticisms of Endgame was that they undid all of the deaths from IW. So you’re kind preaching to the choir.

I loved Ragnarok not only because it was a really good movie but because it had actual stakes. L&T just didn’t for me.

 

[Fosterson]

The stakes if MoM were more how far Wanda had fallen in pursuit of her own happiness. We all knew the MCU wasn’t done with Lizzie Olsen the girl is a star. So her redemption story will actually make for good drama.

Who's to say that there aren't good stories to be told in future with Zeus, Korg or Jane?

One of my biggest criticisms of Endgame was that they undid all of the deaths from IW. So you’re kind preaching to the choir.

Were you really expecting the likes of Spider-Man, Black Panther and the GOTG to stay dead permanently lol?

 

[Mysteryman]

You make a good point but we all knew Thor, the title character wasn’t staying dead and we all knew by then Loki was going to be the villain in the first Avengers movie. So it ain’t quite the same.

The stakes if MoM were more how far Wanda had fallen in pursuit of her own happiness. We all knew the MCU wasn’t done with Lizzie Olsen the girl is a star. So her redemption story will actually make for good drama.

One of my biggest criticisms of Endgame was that they undid all of the deaths from IW. So you’re kind preaching to the choir.

I loved Ragnarok not only because it was a really good movie but because it had actual stakes. L&T just didn’t for me.

What happened in Endgame didn’t surprise me at all.Time Travel was their only way out.

 

[Zyraquis]

Just managed to see it. Thought it would be all unhinged over the top jokes and stuff like some made it out to be, and it is nothing like that. It is by no measure a masterpiece (nor was Ragnarok) but I t’s entertaining and the story is good and easy to follow. While certain aspects are too readily explained away, I don’t really have much particular gripe if I don’t go for the nitpicking territory.

Could use some more Thor movies, just keep it a fun ride.
7.5/10, maybe 8 on rewatch, which is my rating for Ragnarok too.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Who's to say that there aren't good stories to be told in future with Zeus, Korg or Jane?

Obviously there will be with Zeus. But did every main character who died in L&T really need to come back by the end? Also none of them are as popular as Scarlett Witch with the GA. Not even close.

Were you really expecting the likes of Spider-Man, Black Panther and the GOTG to stay dead permanently lol?

I wasn't talking about the dusted characters. More the ones who actually died like Gamora.

 

[Filmfreak]

Here's a shocker. If you think some of your characters have more good stories to tell, don't pretend to kill them in the first place. Kill just the characters who you're done with. That way the deaths will have some actual impact, even if it's for b-list characters, and the audience will know they happened for real. But Marvel wants to have their cake and eat it too. They want cheap thrills and the temporary illusion of dramatic gravitas that will eventually mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Fosterson]

Here's a shocker. If you think some of your characters have more good stories to tell, don't pretend to kill them in the first place. Kill just the characters who you're done with. That way the deaths will have some actual impact, even if it's for b-list characters, and the audience will know they happened for real. But Marvel wants to have their cake and eat it too. They want cheap thrills and the temporary illusion of dramatic gravitas that will eventually mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.

I don't disagree with this. My point is simply that fake deaths are nothing new in the MCU. Remember Pepper Potts in IM3? Remember Nick Fury in TWS? Remember T'Challa in Black Panther? Remember Groot in GOTG?

 

[Filmfreak]

I don't disagree with this. My point is simply that fake deaths are nothing new in the MCU. Remember Pepper Potts in IM3? Remember Nick Fury in TWS? Remember T'Challa in Black Panther? Remember Groot in GOTG?

Yes, that's true, unfortunately. Multiverse only reinforced what was already happening.

 

[Fosterson]

Obviously there will be with Zeus. But did every main character who died in L&T really need to come back by the end? Also none of them are as popular as Scarlett Witch with the GA. Not even close.

I'm not saying you can't criticise fake deaths. My point is that if they weren't a problem for you in the MCU before, its inconsistent to start criticising it now.

And Wanda being more popular is a weak sauce excuse to say that bringing her back from the dead (for the 2nd time btw) is ok. I guess they should bring Tony Stark back too, right?

I wasn't talking about the dusted characters. More the ones who actually died like Gamora.

Ok, but still this was hardly the first time the MCU had done this, as my examples in the response to @Filmfreak show.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I'm not saying you can't criticise fake deaths. My point is that if they weren't a problem for you in the MCU before, its inconsistent to start criticising it now.

And Wanda being more popular is a weak sauce excuse to say that bringing her back from the dead (for the 2nd time btw) is ok. I guess they should bring Tony Stark back too, right?




Ok, but still this was hardly the first time the MCU had done this, as my examples in the response to @Filmfreak show.

As you say fake deaths are nothing new in the MCU. But 3 in one movie is a bit much for some people and kinda lowers the stakes.

Wanda dying is just like Thor or Loki dying in the first movie. You know it's gonna be undone down the line. But the dramatic weight of MoM was how far Wanda had fallen. She was trying to murder a child to get her own back and killed many people along the way.

All of the dramatic stuff in L&T was pretty much undone by the end. Funnily enough TDW had similar complaints.

 

[Fosterson]

As you say fake deaths are nothing new in the MCU. But 3 in one movie is a bit much for some people and kinda lowers the stakes.

Zeus staying dead wouldn't have had any effect on the third act of the movie, since he wasn't in it in any case lol. And as I said, its far from certain that Jane will return in the future. Its definitely possible (and I sure as hell hope she does, because Jane Foster is awesome!) but Natalie Portman has herself said that she currently has no idea if she'll be playing Jane again.

So its really only Korg that counts as a true fake death that affects the movie.

Wanda dying is just like Thor or Loki dying in the first movie. You know it's gonna be undone down the line.

Except it really isn't. MoM was the sixth MCU property to feature Lizzie Olsen as Wanda. It wouldn't be unheard of to think that she might die at that point.

And again I raise the question: would you be Ok with bringing back Tony Stark simply because he's a popular character?