The Rise of Skywalker General Star Wars Episode IX News/Speculation Thread - Part 1

[Donner]

Forget the friend thing then. The point is that John shrugged off the experiences of others on set when it came to racism but now that he's become an activist because of that speech in London, suddenly it's a big deal. And I find that a little gross. I'm sure KMT could have used his support last year but instead he just said not to take it personally.

 

[Schlosser85]

That mouth-foaming speech in London looked ridiculous.

 

[MadVillainy]

Forget the friend thing then. The point is that John shrugged off the experiences of others on set when it came to racism but now that he's become an activist because of that speech on London, suddenly it's a big deal. And I find that a little gross. I'm sure KMT could have used his support last year but instead he just said not to take it personally.

From what I'm reading he didn't shrug off Tran experiencing racism on set. But I could be wrong. I'm just not seeing it in Google yet. It had to do with the harassment after the movie's release. And he apologized for that.
John Boyega Didn’t Intend to Call Kelly Marie Tran ‘Weak’ Over Response to Toxic Fans
And he claims that's not what he meant. But I'm not sure. Maybe just a poor use of words. I can see it both ways. But it was a mistake either way and he publicly apologized

But the year before he defended Tran, and any SW actor, who are harassed by "fans"
John Boyega Defended 'Star Wars' Actor Kelly Marie Tran Against Online Trolls & Called Out An Important Issue
And pretty much since jump, he and the rest of the SW cast seemed to have each other's back, at least in public in regards to that. How Rey & Finn are changing 'Star Wars' – and our world

And now he also bringing light to how he feels that the major POCs in the ST were sidelined. And of course he's making it about himself because...it's an interview asking about his thoughts on his experiences. Someone asks you about your experiences you're going to talk about what you went through the most

 

[Donner]

And then say he was the only one who experienced racism and the only one whose experience with SW was unique because of his race?

"Nobody else had the uproar and death threats sent to their Instagram DMs and social media, saying, ‘Black this and black that and you shouldn’t be a Stormtrooper.’ Nobody else had that experience. But yet people are surprised that I’m this way. That’s my frustration."

"I'm the only cast member whose experience of Star Wars was based on their race."


Either he sucks at interviews and being able to speak properly, or he says exactly what he's thinking and has to apologize later because of backlash.

I didn't mean racism on set. I meant other actors who experienced it by being in the movies. I read his words as shrugging off death threats and racism by just not believing it and accepting that "it is what it is."

 

[MadVillainy]

And then say he was the only one who experienced racism and the only one whose experience with SW was unique because of his race?

"Nobody else had the uproar and death threats sent to their Instagram DMs and social media, saying, ‘Black this and black that and you shouldn’t be a Stormtrooper.’ Nobody else had that experience. But yet people are surprised that I’m this way. That’s my frustration."

"I'm the only cast member whose experience of Star Wars was based on their race."


Either he sucks at interviews and being able to speak properly, or he says exactly what he's thinking and has to apologize later because of backlash.

Like @The Batman pointed out, it seems like some didn't actually read the article.

Context matters. That line came from when they were talking about when he was first cast back in 2014. Here is the sequence

Other directors agreed. And, in 2014, he found himself brought into the Star Wars fold by JJ Abrams. Cue his reveal as a conflicted Stormtrooper once known as FN-2187, an absurd attempted boycott, the fourth highest-grossing film of all time and, laterally, the millions that enabled Boyega to surprise his parents with their own brand-new house three years ago. Yet, again, this is another instance when Boyega seems keen to revise the public record on how something really played out. Whereas previously he responded to the flagrantly racist commentary that greeted his casting in The Force Awakens with bullishness (“Get used to it ”, as his since-deleted Instagram response post had it), now he is keen to discuss the lasting psychic wounds that an ordeal like that leaves.

“I’m the only cast member who had their own unique experience of that franchise based on their race,” he says, holding my gaze. “Let’s just leave it like that. It makes you angry with a process like that. It makes you much more militant; it changes you. Because you realise, ‘I got given this opportunity but I’m in an industry that wasn’t even ready for me.’ Nobody else in the cast had people saying they were going to boycott the movie because [they were in it]. Nobody else had the uproar and death threats sent to their Instagram DMs and social media, saying, ‘Black this and black that and you shouldn’t be a Stormtrooper.’ Nobody else had that experience. But yet people are surprised that I’m this way. That’s my frustration.”

Idk if Oscar Isaac experienced any of that, but he would know more than we do. With the context of viewing the whole piece, it seems like he's talking about specifically TFA. Not the series as a whole. Because even then, he would've contradicted that by in the same interview bringing up how he felt that not just himself, but KMT and Oscar Issac were sidelined and maligned as well.

It's clear to me, but sure maybe he needs to speak better. But it's clear if you read the article that he doesn't think he's the only one in the whole Sequel Trilogy whose experience was based on their race

 

[Donner]

I did read the article, thanks.

I read that as him saying as a whole what his experience was and not just when he was cast.

Of course it's frustrating and hella wrong when idiot fans do this, just ask Daisy when she left social media because of the hate. It's not like her being the lead came across well either.

 

[MadVillainy]

I don't think so.

But ok.

Because as I said he specially named dropped other POC actors also. So clearly at worst he might've misspoke. Because from the same article he clearly doesn't think that.

 

[Donner]

I don't think so.

But ok.

Because as I said he specially named dropped other POC actors also. So clearly at worst he might've misspoke. Because from the same article he clearly doesn't think that.

I hope he misspoke. Because claiming that "nobody else in the cast had people saying they were going to boycott the movie because [they were in it]" is pretty aggravating considering that Men's Rights Activists were tweeting boycott hashtags and took credit for TFA losing money.

 

[The Chris]

I remember reading somewhere that John and Daisy didn't like TLJ because they were separated. Such a shame when grown professionals can't play with their friends...

Hell even that’s on J.J. He ended the 1st film with them separated. Heck that’s a Star Wars middle installment staple at this point. (Luke separated from han and leia in empire, Obi Wan separated from anakin and Padme for most of clones)

 

[MadVillainy]

I hope he misspoke. Because claiming that "nobody else in the cast had people saying they were going to boycott the movie because [they were in it]" is pretty aggravating considering that Men's Rights Activists were tweeting boycott hashtags and took credit for TFA losing money.

Yeah it's weird, obviously, when we're not there to see the convo. I'm just looking at the piece as a whole. And from that sequence they seem like they were specifically talking about pre release of TFA. Because, from what i remember, most of the focus of the weirdos was from the race angle...but then after release and into TLJ and TROS it was most all MRA, incel types going after it. And he has to have his head completely in the sand and ignoring Ridley (who he claims is his friend) to not know that didn't happen

 

[jmc]

Forget the friend thing then. The point is that John shrugged off the experiences of others on set when it came to racism but now that he's become an activist because of that speech in London, suddenly it's a big deal. And I find that a little gross. I'm sure KMT could have used his support last year but instead he just said not to take it personally.

The thing about activism is it's rarely consistent.

 

[MadVillainy]

Hell even that’s on J.J. He ended the 1st film with them separated. Heck that’s a Star Wars middle installment staple at this point. (Luke separated from han and leia in empire, Obi Wan separated from anakin and Padme for most of clones)

Which, possible hot take, is why I'm not a big of a fan of Empire as everyone else

 

[Donner]

Yeah it's weird, obviously, when we're not there to see the convo. I'm just looking at the piece as a whole. And from that sequence they seem like they were specifically talking about pre release of TFA. Because, from what i remember, most of the focus of the weirdos was from the race angle...but then after release and into TLJ and TROS it was most all MRA, incel types going after it. And he has to have his head completely in the sand and ignoring Ridley (who he claims is his friend) to not know that didn't happen

I'm sure he knew. She likely mentioned what was going on, same with him.

Which is absolutely bat**** insane that it was even an issue. Anti-white my ass. It seems so stupid to say Star Wars is for everyone and yet it constantly needs to be reminded to some.

 

[chamber-music]

I don't think it is simply a ego thing or Boyega not getting to pal around with Ridley.

Finn was pretty much used as a bait and switch with the marketing on the force awakens. People were thinking they were getting a Stormtrooper turned Jedi and instead got a space janitor turned simp sidekick.

I’d still like to know why he’s so soft on J.J when it comes to his character getting misused. At least Last Jedi gave him a completed arc and even gave him his own section of the film with a good amount of screen time (even if admittedly it wasn’t a popular one). TROS gave him pretty much nothing.

JJ gave Boyega his break. (JJ said he wanted to work with Boyega since Attack The Block). JJ also went to bat for Boyega during the long audition process. John obivoulsy feels some loyalty to Abrams which he doesn't for Rian Johnson.

 

[jmc]

I don't think it is simply a ego thing or Boyega not getting to pal around with Ridley.

Finn was pretty much used as a bait and switch with the marketing on the force awakens. People were thinking they were getting a Stormtrooper turned Jedi and instead got a space janitor turned simp sidekick.

I've never understood this perspective. Finn holding a lightsaber in the posters or promotional material was never an indication he would become a Jedi, in fact it was obvious in the trailers he was completely out of his depth holding that lightsaber. He could look less Jedi like. It always looked to me like he was someone caught up in something he didn't really want to be a part of.

 

[chamber-music]

The fact the Star Wars fanbase has so many bigots is weird. You like movies about space wizards and green puppets but people of color or women in leading roles is too much of a challenge for them.

If any fanbase was open minded then you would think it was Star Wars.
Turns out the Trekkies had the better overall fanbase after all (although they also have their own set of issues).

 

[jmc]

Someone is one day going to have to explain to me the extent of this bigotry, especially when the series has had characters like Lando and Mace Windu in previous trilogies and literally no-one had issues with either.

 

[chamber-music]

We saw the same thing happen with Katherine Heigl, Hugo Weaving, Shia LaBeouf for a time

Katherine Heigl tanked her career but LaBeouf and Weaving are fine.

Neither LaBeouf or Weaving were blacklisted from Hollywood. Neither of them have that much interest in being in big budget studio films any more.

Labeouf likes doing his left field indie art house type stuff.

Hugo Weaving prefers doing low budget indie type movies and theatre. Weaving doesn't have much interest in being a movie star in Hollywood or Walking red carpets. Weaving has said publicly "
‘Blockbuster films are fun and pay well, but they don’t draw me in’

 

[chamber-music]

Someone is one day going to have to explain to me the extent of this bigotry, especially when the series has had characters like Lando and Mace Windu in previous trilogies and literally no-one had issues with either.

Are you being serious?

Pretty sure Billy Dee Williams and Samuel L. Jackson were not getting racist abuse, threats and boycotts for appearing in Star Wars films like the actors of the latest movies were. Social media has also allowed bigots to directly contact that actors as well which doesn't help.

 

[jmc]

My point was the extent to which that it's actual Star Wars fans, and not just random trolls looking to cause trouble, has never been established. Basically, even in the days before social media on Star Wars message boards and the like in the early 2000's I never saw any indication bigotry or sexism or whatever was running rampant within the community. Social media has allowed trolls to disguised themselves and pretend they are 'fans', but the real Star Wars community itself has always been accepting of people.

 

[Schlosser85]

Eh.....there are definitely some Star Wars fans who seem to think the galaxy hit its quota of black people with Lando and Mace and also didn’t like a black stormtrooper.

 

[henzINNIT]

Though I'd argue Finn got the most substantive character work in TLJ, it was also the least successful and least popular segment of that movie. As much as I think TROS was worse to Finn, I can see why Boyega feels differently. JJ gave him cooler stuff, like lightsaber fights in his first film and a new black co-star in the last.

 

[MadVillainy]

Katherine Heigl tanked her career but LaBeouf and Weaving are fine.

Neither LaBeouf or Weaving were blacklisted from Hollywood. Neither of them have that much interest in being in big budget studio films any more.

Labeouf likes doing his left field indie art house type stuff.

Hugo Weaving prefers doing low budget indie type movies and theatre. Weaving doesn't have much interest in being a movie star in Hollywood or Walking red carpets. Weaving has said publicly "
‘Blockbuster films are fun and pay well, but they don’t draw me in’

Tyats why I said for a time. Remember there was a time LaBeouf could barely even get an indie. And WB nixed him being in SS. And Weaving hasnt been in anything stateside, other than that Mortal Engines in a while either. Big picture or not. Whether they want to be in them or not.
But regardless that wasn't the main point I was making. You can other examples to fit what Im saying

 

[BatLobster]

John has every right to voice his frustrations with how things went down with Star Wars. He wouldn't be the first Star Wars actor to do so. Personally I think it wouldn't hurt to emphasize the positive just a bit more, considering there are struggling actors out there who would've killed just to have a non-speaking role in a Star Wars film, never mind be one of the stars. But he has every right to express himself as he sees fit and nobody can take that away from him. He knows damn well that he's going to provoke all sorts of opinions by saying this stuff though.

It's the vague conflating of "my character was misused" and "my character was downplayed because of my race" where I think some are finding an issue. The latter is a pretty big statement to make. Especially in this day and age. Look at what's going on with Ray Fisher and Joss Whedon/Geoff Johns/John Berg.

Is Boyega trying to kinda-sorta level a similar sort of accusation against Rian Johnson, without quite going there? By defending JJ Abrams and acting as if he did nothing wrong by him, to me...yeah. He kinda is. That's messed up, considering Abrams had two chances to do something interesting with the character. If he doesn't like the memes of Finn constantly running around shouting "REYYY"...he can thank JJ for that. He doesn't do that once in TLJ.

So yeah...that's the issue for me. It's coming off like he's trying to passive aggressively send cancel mobs after Rian Johnson out of spite, but he can't actually go there because he knows he doesn't really have a leg to stand on. So he just says "Disney" as a catch-all. But if you read between the lines, to me that's what it really seems like he's getting at.

Maybe John sincerely believes that what happened with Finn's character was a byproduct of systemic racism. He's entitled to that belief. But he's opening himself up for that line of thought to be questioned. Especially when there is ample evidence of characters being sidelined and handled in unpopular aways all across the board in Star Wars. I mean...look at what happened with Luke in this same trilogy. He doesn't even get to speak in the first film, is handled in a highly controversial way in the second film, and reduced to a cameo in the third film. And we're talking about THE most beloved character in the history of the franchise.

If anyone has a leg to stand on here, it's Kelly Marie Tran. In terms of the new characters, she suffered the biggest drop-off in terms of screen time. Except she's been nothing but gracious.

 

[I Am The Knight]

The fact the Star Wars fanbase has so many bigots is weird. You like movies about space wizards and green puppets but people of color or women in leading roles is too much of a challenge for them.

If any fanbase was open minded then you would think it was Star Wars.
Turns out the Trekkies had the better overall fanbase after all (although they also have their own set of issues).

Wizards, magic, green people, sci-fi mumbo jumbo...That's been normalized in media through decades. And the status quo is that the protag in whatever movie/show/cartoon is a white dude. And that the female is a princess/trophy, and not the protagonist, most of the time. Shake that status quo ingrained in people growing up in the 70's, 80's...Even the 90's, and you start to realize these fanboys expect the status quo