The Rise of Skywalker General Star Wars Episode IX News/Speculation Thread - Part 1

[henzINNIT]

I don't see this as a sideways jab at Rian Johnson. I read 'Disney' as referring to the corporate entity, producers and executives etc. Boyega has proven to be very outspoken so I think he'd name Johnson directly if he was the problem. It's probably significant that Boyega didn't defend Johnson like he did JJ, but from what he said about JJ, he doesn't seem to consider directors to be the problem.

It's really sad that he feels this way about Star Wars now. He was the biggest fanboy going in.

 

[BatLobster]

I don't see this as a sideways jab at Rian Johnson. I read 'Disney' as referring to the corporate entity, producers and executives etc. Boyega has proven to be very outspoken so I think he'd name Johnson directly if he was the problem. It's probably significant that Boyega didn't defend Johnson like he did JJ, but from what he said about JJ, he doesn't seem to consider directors to be the problem.

It's really sad that he feels this way about Star Wars now. He was the biggest fanboy going in.

I just don't know what to make of the comments. These new comments don't exist in a bubble. He openly slagged off TLJ during the press tour for TROS. Rian Johnson wrote and directed that film, not "Disney". Yes, he had Lucasfilm's support to do what he wanted, but for better or worse that was famously Rian's baby where was given full creative control.

Combine that with him openly defending JJ while not saying a thing about Rian, even going as far as to say as "JJ had to fix your ****". Who is "your"? I dunno. It seems passive aggressive to me. I'm not fully buying the 'Disney' thing. He's making Rian Johnson the elephant in the room by not talking about him.

Mind you, I like Rian Johnson and I don't think he deserves to be dragged here. But intentionally or not, Boyega is basically dog whistling at Rian Johnson haters to go after him here, which was happening on Twitter a lot yesterday.

 

[Frodo]

While I don't think the sidelining of Boyega and Tran is because they are POC, I don't have the anger at him for his statements that some fanboys seem to have.

I can get why he feels mad. Unlike Billy Dee and Sam Jackson, he actually was promoted as the lead , and he did take alot of racist crap after people realized that there was a black stormtrooper.

Boyega may have felt his character was going to have a big impact culturally like a Han Solo, and be a positive example of a strong, Black lead in a franchise which hasn't had that. Instead he was comic relief and a sidekick who was pushed further to the side.

And I emphasis lead because people will point to Billy Dee and Sam Jackson without realizing that being a supporting character is not the same as being a lead character ,even if the actors are the same race.

Its a different level of media attention and just plain focus in the production.

To have those expectations dashed and to further be marginalized along with Tran, is gonna make him mad, and it seems like he felt that it was because he thought the studio was skiddish about making the POC characters the leads and prominent.

Yeah, you could point to SW being what put him on the map, which I'm sure he's greatful for, but that doesn't mean he's not gonna feel that he was given short shift because of race, and that he's not going to be resentful for the producers touting their forward thinking casting, then tossing him to the side.

I don't think his complaint is about "activism" . He's expressing what lots of actors and actresses of color have expressed about Hollywood casting, productions, portrayals , promotions,etc for decades.

It is a real problem. Whether that's the case in these films is another question.

Again, I don't think he's correct that he was pushed aside because of race, but I can understand his being disappointed after going through so much stuff in getting the part, and his race being a major part of the media and online discourse about TFA, to being downplayed and pushed aside by the production itself.

 

[Donner]

I just don't know what to make of the comments. These new comments don't exist in a bubble. He openly slagged off TLJ during the press tour for TROS. Rian Johnson wrote and directed that film, not "Disney". Yes, he had Lucasfilm's support to do what he wanted, but for better or worse that was famously Rian's baby where was given full creative control.

Combine that with him openly defending JJ while not saying a thing about Rian, even going as far as to say as "JJ had to fix your ****". Who is "your"? I dunno. It seems passive aggressive to me. I'm not fully buying the 'Disney' thing. He's making Rian Johnson the elephant in the room by not talking about him.

Mind you, I like Rian Johnson and I don't think he deserves to be dragged here. But intentionally or not, Boyega is basically dog whistling at Rian Johnson haters to go after him here, which was happening on Twitter a lot yesterday.

I hated Twitter yesterday. Here was a guy talking about his experiences of racism with SW and these pathetic dudebros turned it into a JJ v. RJ, TLJ v. The other two war.

Unless that's what Boyega wanted. I do agree with what you're saying that he seemed to passive aggressively go after Rian. He specifically said "they" didn't know what to do with him and KMT but knew what to do with Adam and Daisy. It's clear what he's talking about.

 

[BatLobster]

@Frodo

Just want to say I hear you and respect where you're coming from.

I still like Boyega. I admire his balls to be speaking out against Disney, even if I don't 100% agree with the way he's going about this. I do agree that the way Disney marketed the films and publicly patted themselves on the back for having a diverse cast completely set them up for this and deserves criticism. That part was corporate BS.

At the same time, I think he has a blind spot here because he personally likes JJ, even though I don't think JJ really did his character too many favors. By letting JJ off the hook while leaving Rian out to dry, I feel it's fanning the flames of the tired and exhausting fan wars, and also distracts from the issue he's talking about.

 

[chamber-music]

Hamill has spoken of not exactly being happy with all the choices Rian made.

I've like Rian's work since Brick and felt much of the vitriol he received after The Last Jedi was overly harsh but I also feel that there has been a almost Zack Snyder like cult that sprung up around him that seems to be very condescending and paints anyone with issues about his film in the same category as those abusive trolls.

Like most things on the internet the moderate voices are drowned out by those on the extreme end of the scale.

 

[Brother Jack]

I've never understood this perspective. Finn holding a lightsaber in the posters or promotional material was never an indication he would become a Jedi, in fact it was obvious in the trailers he was completely out of his depth holding that lightsaber. He could look less Jedi like. It always looked to me like he was someone caught up in something he didn't really want to be a part of.

I don't know if that's true. There was a concerted effort in the marketing of TFA to hide Rey's Jedi-ness. There was never anything officially released of her holding the lightsaber until after the film was released, I think other than a leaked action figure. And I personally know people who only watched the trailers, saw the posters etc. and went into the film thinking Finn was that guy and were surprised when it turned out to be Rey. It may have seemed glaringly obvious to all of us here that Rey was the Luke analog, but it wasn't to a good portion of the audience. I don't want to say JJ gave Finn the lightsaber for sole reason of pulling a fast one on the viewers, but I would not put it passed him.

 

[TheVileOne]

What I would like to know is how the actors experienced racism on set while filming. Do they mean other cast and crew members mistreated them? Or do they mean something else.

 

[jmc]

Where he loses me is when he implies Daisy and Adam’s characters where handled better from the start. I’m sorry, but that’s complete bull ****. Every character in this trilogy suffered because there was no fixed idea about who or what this trilogy was about. There’s not a single character arc that works across this series. Hell, no-one can even describe what the actual story of this trilogy is about. He’s entitled to feel how he feels but that doesn’t make what he feels to be true. The reality is Lucasfilm created a bunch of new characters that didn’t win over the public. Finn just happened to get caught up in that.

 

[jmc]

I don't know if that's true. There was a concerted effort in the marketing of TFA to hide Rey's Jedi-ness. There was never anything officially released of her holding the lightsaber until after the film was released, I think other than a leaked action figure. And I personally know people who only watched the trailers, saw the posters etc. and went into the film thinking Finn was that guy and were surprised when it turned out to be Rey. It may have seemed glaringly obvious to all of us here that Rey was the Luke analog, but it wasn't to a good portion of the audience. I don't want to say JJ gave Finn the lightsaber for sole reason of pulling a fast one on the viewers, but I would not put it passed him.

I mean, it seemed pretty obvious to me from the start she was going to be the new Jedi. But honestly, that type of marketing is right up JJ’s alley.

 

[jmc]

Unless that's what Boyega wanted. I do agree with what you're saying that he seemed to passive aggressively go after Rian. He specifically said "they" didn't know what to do with him and KMT but knew what to do with Adam and Daisy. It's clear what he's talking about.

Given his **** stirring abilities I wouldn’t put it past him.

 

[TheVileOne]

He should've named Rian Johnson and really got this dumpster fire going

 

[Fincher]

He should've named Rian Johnson and really got this dumpster fire going

Well, if he really wanted to make a scene, he could blame it all on Kelly Marie Tran. For reasons.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

It is interesting that Rian Johnson seemed to have made no connections with any cast member during the filming of the Last Jedi. No one speaks fondly of him.

 

[Donner]

I don't think that's true.

 

[TheVileOne]

I have no idea that's true. But Boyega's issues here really seem to be with Rian Johnson, JJ Abrams, and Chris Terrio more than anything, yet he's giving them all outs.

 

[Marvolo]

Maybe this will work out for Boyega, but he just sounds whiny and unprofessional. Boyega has said he doesnt want to return to star wars, but he can't seem to shut up about it or let it go. Cut your losses, and move the hell on.

 

[The Chris]

It is interesting that Rian Johnson seemed to have made no connections with any cast member during the filming of the Last Jedi. No one speaks fondly of him.

If that’s true that would be so weird simply because usually a director would have a pattern of something like that, but all the actors from his other films and tv work seem to adore him.

 

[jmc]

I’m curious to know if Disney will respond to this.

 

[BatLobster]

Ray Fisher is chiming in now.



The dumpster fire rises.

 

[Mani-Man]

While I don't think the sidelining of Boyega and Tran is because they are POC, I don't have the anger at him for his statements that some fanboys seem to have.

I dont know, the picture that has been painted about Hollywood at the very least in the last 10 years...has been pretty bad in that sense.
I havent heard about any POC that never experienced some form of open racism etc for being POC.
But of course that doesnt mean it was the reason in this case...just that there is a pattern.

I still like Boyega. I admire his balls to be speaking out against Disney, even if I don't 100% agree with the way he's going about this. I do agree that the way Disney marketed the films and publicly patted themselves on the back for having a diverse cast completely set them up for this and deserves criticism. That part was corporate BS.

At the same time, I think he has a blind spot here because he personally likes JJ, even though I don't think JJ really did his character too many favors. By letting JJ off the hook while leaving Rian out to dry, I feel it's fanning the flames of the tired and exhausting fan wars, and also distracts from the issue he's talking about.

Speaking out against Disney is a huge deal and could easily ruin his career.
Because a black man fighting a company like Disney...puh that could easily backfire considering how big the Gloves are that Disney has.
Its good to speak out for sure, maybe not the best the way he did it...but how the hell do you tackle this in the first place.

Its no secret that Finn in TFA was going to the direction of being one of the main characters, everything they did in TFA, the marketing etc pointed that direction.
Then came TLJ and things changed, Rian pushed him away from the main plot and all to the point where ROS couldnt fix that.
But as with everything in this trilogy, there is no one person to blame...many things fell apart for many reasons.

Hamill has spoken of not exactly being happy with all the choices Rian made.

I've like Rian's work since Brick and felt much of the vitriol he received after The Last Jedi was overly harsh but I also feel that there has been a almost Zack Snyder like cult that sprung up around him that seems to be very condescending and paints anyone with issues about his film in the same category as those abusive trolls.

Like most things on the internet the moderate voices are drowned out by those on the extreme end of the scale.

I dont think anybody but Harrison Ford was really happy with the direction...that man didnt give a **** either way.
I do not think it was ever possible to really live up to what Star Wars built, so im not surprised if even the cast wasnt completely happy.
I think most people wanted something easy from the sequels, which TFA delivered for the most part.
Johnson however did with TLJ something rather brave to evolve star wars...which was rough for many reasons etc.
The idea Johnson had was good, but maybe he wanted too much...either way its done and no way to go back.

Where he loses me is when he implies Daisy and Adam’s characters where handled better from the start. I’m sorry, but that’s complete bull ****. Every character in this trilogy suffered because there was no fixed idea about who or what this trilogy was about. There’s not a single character arc that works across this series. Hell, no-one can even describe what the actual story of this trilogy is about. He’s entitled to feel how he feels but that doesn’t make what he feels to be true. The reality is Lucasfilm created a bunch of new characters that didn’t win over the public. Finn just happened to get caught up in that.

Yeah, i mean at least Kylo and Rey havent been sidelined that noticeably...but they werent handled that much better.
So that point he makes isnt really strong.

It is interesting that Rian Johnson seemed to have made no connections with any cast member during the filming of the Last Jedi. No one speaks fondly of him.

Could be because his approach and all was just too "controversal" for a Star Wars.
But he seems like a nice enough guy from what i gather, so i dont know.

 

[BatLobster]

Speaking out against Disney is a huge deal and could easily ruin his career.
Because a black man fighting a company like Disney...puh that could easily backfire considering how big the Gloves are that Disney has.
Its good to speak out for sure, maybe not the best the way he did it...but how the hell do you tackle this in the first place.

Well, it looks like Boyega still has a friend in JJ, who also happens to be one of the most powerful people in Hollywood and is currently under employment at WB. I think his career will be OK.

Its no secret that Finn in TFA was going to the direction of being one of the main characters, everything they did in TFA, the marketing etc pointed that direction.
Then came TLJ and things changed, Rian pushed him away from the main plot and all to the point where ROS couldnt fix that.
But as with everything in this trilogy, there is no one person to blame...many things fell apart for many reasons.

I still think TFA is being let off the hook for setting the trajectory for this trilogy.

TFA set up the idea of Rey/Kylo having this interesting, weirdly intimate hero/villain relationship. It's a given that any filmmaker was going to explore that in a sequel, because it was easily the most interesting aspect of the film from a mythological standpoint.

TFA made Finn a comedic relief cartoon-ish character who's constantly scared, out of his depth, running away, always being told what to do by people more capable than him, etc. Maybe the intention was to make him a fish out of water sort of underdog that you can root for, but throughout the whole film he basically just serves to make Rey look like more of a badass. Sure, he gets a couple of cool lightsaber moments and gets to show some bravery, but he's dispatched of extremely quickly by Kylo and left in a coma at the end of the film so Rey can go meet Luke on her own. By having Finn rendered comatose by Kylo, and then immediately having Rey actually defeat Kylo, it's as if the film is saying "Sit down Finn, no Jedi arc for you. This girl is our chosen one. She grew up on a desert planet, that's how this works-- didn't you get the memo?" It was a bait and switch. The film is much, much more interested in Rey and her journey, and Kylo as well for that matter. Kylo gets the most nuanced and dramatic scene in the whole film, after all.

Now think of the alternative. What if Finn had been merely knocked unconscious but not actually left in a coma? What if Finn had joined Rey on her voyage to Ahch-To to bring Luke back? If the idea was to give him a story that was more related to Force stuff, that would've been a pretty simple way to keep him involved with that side of the story. Putting him in a coma accomplished nothing, story-wise.

I still enjoy TFA. It's a fun movie that I can watch, turn my brain off and enjoy. But I still think there are some foundational choices made in that film that hampered this trilogy from the outset.

 

[Donner]

Didn't Boyega say that JJ told him he would be the star of the new trilogy? He can blame TLJ all he wants, but as you pointed out, TFA ended with Rey having the lightsaber and leaving to find Luke and Finn in a coma. Seems like JJ is the one who did Boyega dirty.

But if him and JJ are really friends, then he does still want a career, otherwise he would call him out for basically lying to him.

 

[BatLobster]

And the thing is, he *was* one of the stars. As @MagnarTheGreat has pointed out with his screen time chart, he had the second most screen time in the trilogy.

Whenever you sign up for a multi-film commitment, there is no guarantee that you're going to be 100% happy with the way your character is used throughout. It sucks that he feels he was done an injustice, but this kind of thing really could've happened to anyone. Finn could've easily been a white guy, and still gotten the same "comedic relief character who is friendzoned by the heroine and sent on a side quest" treatment. He still could've been just a regular guy trying his best in a story about powerful Force users. I really don't believe these decisions were race-driven.

You can argue that maybe the filmmakers and studio should've been more aware and sensitive about what they were doing by putting a POC in a prominent role in the first place. I think that's a very fair assessment. But at the end of the day, would John have rather experienced the platform of Star Wars and have it be a mixed bag, or not had it happen at all? There is always a high risk of disappointment when you do something this high profile, with astronomically high expectations baked in.

But who knows, maybe there was some mandate from the high-ups at Disney that they didn't want Finn to be too focal to the story, either in terms of romance with Rey or Jedi stuff. If that were to come out, it could totally change the discussion. But at the moment it feels like it's getting into conspiratorial territory.

 

[Brother Jack]

I still enjoy TFA. It's a fun movie that I can watch, turn my brain off and enjoy. But I still think there are some foundational choices made in that film that hampered this trilogy from the outset.

One hundred percent. The foundation of this trilogy was built on sand. I question now whether Abrams was ever the right guy to make the film, looking at how it was designed to be a kind of tabula rasa with gray areas that would be filled by different directors in the subsequent two sequels. That no one seemed to have a sense of what the overall story would be is mind-boggling.