Justice League Henry Cavill IS Clark Kent/Superman - - - - - - - - - - Part 19

[Iceman]

His name is on a lot of stuff, lol. But I think Cloverfield was honestly better than any movie JJ has made as a director, which I completely attribute to Matt Reeves based on the Apes films. Even in the Star Trek series, I felt Star Trek Beyond was the best of that trilogy.

I'd take a team up with Reeves sure.

I loved Cloverfield for the first 80% or so of it. JJ properly got me into Star Trek which is a very hard thing to do with a property that has done fine without me for so long. Lost was also the show that got me back into TV shows after giving up for years. As we were discussing above, it's not that JJ is one of the best necessarily, it's more that he's great at revitalising properties in dire need of it and dealing with all the baggage and pressure that comes with that and still managing to turn out something that most people are satisfied with. I'm only partially into the newer Star Wars films (compared to my excitement for the originals), but I acknowledge that he did a solid job of sorting that franchise out too which was still recovering from the damage of the prequels. Superman happens to be in what I would call a made-for-JJ situation even while JJ is not one of my top film directors.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Honestly, I think the details are fuzzy from different sources because there aren't any set yet. They're at the table because they need him to do more work on the SC, but they're there to discuss the future, and the deal won't be done 'til they can agree on what possibilities that future could hold.

Sounds like Deadline jumped the gun then. Sort of.

 

[Iceman]

Different strokes, lol. Like I said earlier, the best I ever felt after one of JJ's films was ''That was decent." I think he had good ideas, but he always ends up doing the same dumb mystery box stuff. Which almost always ends in people being mad because he never puts thought into important things. The mystery box is always empty. I think were he to direct, I would want a good writer attached. Cause if he writes or cowrites, well... let's just say I have seen that movie before lol

I will definitely agree on the dumb empty mystery box aspect. I feel if he could understand why the contents of that mystery box are crucial and how to deliver something satisfactory on that front after all the teasing, he could really move onto another level as a creator.

 

[heatvision38]

"Sources tell Heat Vision that Cavill is not in any negotiations for any cameo."

@heatvision38 Spill the beans already, Heatvision! I'm getting tired of this!!

Not me, lol. Just somebody who picked a smart name.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I will definitely agree on the dumb empty mystery box aspect. I feel if he could understand why the contents of that mystery box are crucial and how to deliver something satisfactory on that front after all the teasing, he could really move onto another level as a creator.

I would agree. But at this stage, I know he ain't developing that skill. Which is why I think a good writer is key. Look at Star Wars when he had Kasdan writing vs when it was him and Chris Terrio. Yeah, Superman needs someone to come in and fix him up. That's important, but when I look at my own enjoyment of the next Superman movie, this worries me. Cause I think I will walk out excited. Then rewatches and reflection will reveal cracks that grow wider with time until I turn on the movie. Happened with both Star Trek and TFA for me.

I want to like Superman! I hate feeling like that guy lol. I kind of wish JJ would leave projects I care about alone.

Though I do thank JJ for his restoration of Phantasm. Best thing he ever did

 

[titansupes]

I've been a huge proponent for JJ doing both Star Wars and Superman since ST'09... and while admittedly some of the shine has worn off with TRoS, I still think he's a great choice to invest some much needed heart, warmth, charisma and pure excitement to the DCEU version of the character.

 

[Iceman]

I would agree. But at this stage, I know he ain't developing that skill. Which is why I think a good writer is key. Look at Star Wars when he had Kasdan writing vs when it was him and Chris Terrio. Yeah, Superman needs someone to come in and fix him up. That's important, but when I look at my own enjoyment of the next Superman movie, this worries me. Cause I think I will walk out excited. Then rewatches and reflection will reveal cracks that grow wider with time until I turn on the movie. Happened with both Star Trek and TFA for me.

I want to like Superman! I hate feeling like that guy lol. I kind of wish JJ would leave projects I care about alone.

Though I do thank JJ for his restoration of Phantasm. Best thing he ever did

Yeah, he definitely needs a good writer too. The consultation process on Lost seemed to be effective, but you might have a point on it being late for him to develop that skill now.

I do feel there is a chance he brings his A game here given that Superman seems to be his biggest passion. Also you don't need to have a mystery box with Supes, keeping it simple would be fine.

 

[STARMAN]

Pretty much all the trades and bloggers are in universal agreement that they're talking. So this is positive. HR is usually the most clued-in with WB. The situation is still fluid. They must come up with a long term plan. Otherwise they're not really moving forward. So take time to figure things out. Have a solid plan. Superman deserves it.

 

[flickchick85]

Different strokes, lol. Like I said earlier, the best I ever felt after one of JJ's films was ''That was decent." I think he had good ideas, but he always ends up doing the same dumb mystery box stuff. Which almost always ends in people being mad because he never puts thought into important things. The mystery box is always empty. I think were he to direct, I would want a good writer attached. Cause if he writes or cowrites, well... let's just say I have seen that movie before lol

To me, boiling down all of JJ's work to the "mystery box" is the same thing as saying Joss Whedon's only about quippy dialogue. I mean yeah, that aspect of his work annoys me, but there's more to both of them as storytellers than that.

It's funny, for years I spent time on this board putting down JJ and arguing for how much better a storyteller and showrunner Whedon was (since they came up in TV in the same era, and Abrams was the only mainstream successful one at the time). And I would STILL argue any day of the week that Joss is a more creative and inventive storyteller. But there's value in what both of them do. JJ as a writer is great at giving people characters they can root for. That was VERY evident in his Superman script, as his version of Clark and Lois were both extremely likable characters, imo, far more so than in any version of Superman that's been on the big screen since. And as a director, he brings a great contemporary energy and vibrancy, without going full Michael Bay. He brings more of a relatability factor to the table, in whatever IP he's updating. I'm FAR from Abrams' biggest fan, and this is literally the ONLY project in Hollywood he'd be my top choice for, but I do believe he's the perfect fit for it.

 

[STARMAN]

JJ Abrams on Superman makes sense on a creative and financial level. It actually takes the burden off WB on figuring out what to do with Superman. The studio can sit back and let Abrams handle it like Reeves is handling Batman. It's good for the character. It's good for the studio.

 

[flickchick85]

JJ Abrams on Superman makes sense on a creative and financial level. It actually takes the burden off WB on figuring out what to do with Superman. The studio can sit back and let Abrams handle it like Reeves is handling Batman. It's good for the character. It's good for the studio.

Plus, Reeves and JJ are former college roommates and childhood BFF's who started their careers together, so you know there would be a smooth collaboration there.

 

[Spider-Fan]

To me, boiling down all of JJ's work to the "mystery box" is the same thing as saying Joss Whedon's only about quippy dialogue. I mean yeah, that aspect of his work annoys me, but there's more to both of them as storytellers than that.

It's funny, for years I spent time on this board putting down JJ and arguing for how much better a storyteller and showrunner Whedon was (since they came up in TV in the same era, and Abrams was the only mainstream successful one at the time). And I would STILL argue any day of the week that Joss is a more creative and inventive storyteller. But there's value in what both of them do. JJ as a writer is great at giving people characters they can root for. That was VERY evident in his Superman script, as his version of Clark and Lois were both extremely likable characters, imo, far more so than in any version of Superman that's been on the big screen since. And as a director, he brings a great contemporary energy and vibrancy, without going full Michael Bay. He brings more of a relatability factor to the table. I'm FAR from Abrams' biggest fan, and this is literally the ONLY project in Hollywood he'd be my top choice for, but I do believe he's the perfect fit for it.

I agree with your list of strengths he has. Which is why i don't think he makes bad movies. Fine doesn't mean bad, just means not great. His films almost always have that same flaw of being hollow or ultimately disposable and often feel like they're plot driven for the sake of there being exciting things, regardless of they mean anything or have narrative purpose. It's what holds him back from making great movies, and that is what I want for Superman: a great movie. Since history shows me how I feel about his work in general, I worry whether I will feel like I got one. Yeah, Superman has seen bad times on screen, so fine or good can be argued as a step up, but the Man of Steel i think deserves a new top tier CBM.

 

[Jekecy]

Plus, Reeves and JJ are former college roommates and childhood BFF's who started their careers together, so you know there would be a smooth collaboration there.

Once JJ signed an exclusivity deal with WB, my mind immediately went to this combination as leading the charge for a new, reinvigorated DC universe. Maybe years down the line, even a World's Finest movie can actually come out of it and give the world a Batman/Superman movie that is actually cherished.

It's why the Cavill news has me a bit bummed, because I feel carrying even some strands from Snyder's era, just draws too much baggage. A fresh face for Supes helps establish a new direction with no leftover bad taste. And that can only help if the chance goes around to him possibly meeting up with Batman for "the first time". Cavill in those tights takes away from that momentous occasion, even though the novelty is technically wasted now.

 

[flickchick85]

I agree with your list of strengths he has. Which is why i don't think he makes bad movies. Fine doesn't mean bad, just means not great. His films almost always have that same flaw of being hollow or ultimately disposable and often feel like they're plot driven for the sake of their being exciting things, regardless of they mean anything or have narrative purpose. It's what holds him back from making great movies, and that is what I want for Superman: a great movie. Since history shows me how I feel about his work in general, I worry whether I will feel like I got one. Yeah, Superman has seen bad times on screen, so fine or good can be argued as a step up, but the Man of Steel i think deserves a new top tier CBM.

I guess we just disagree on the level of hollowness, because what I want for Supes is exactly what Whedon believes he himself gave to the Avengers: "a great time." I know you didn't, but I came out of Star Trek '09 with that feeling, and that's what I want coming out of Supes. Anything that gives me a character and relationships to believe in and makes me eager to follow them on further adventures is anything but hollow, imo. That's what the movies were about for me as a kid, and that's what I'm dying to get from Supes. I'm not looking for deep character deconstruction or heavy social commentary. Not in the first installment, anyway. People getting bogged down in what they wanted to say with the character rather than investing in the character himself is what got us in the mess we're in now, imo. They can explore that stuff in sequels, but for the first installment of a new era, I just want a movie that reminds everyone how FUN Supes can be. As much as a certain crowd hates that word.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

get drew goddard to write and direct, JJ can exec produce

that would be my preference if JJ is involved at this point

 

[KaijuDude1992]

As much I did enjoy the first two Abrams Star Trek films and Cloverfield I really do think his most underrated film is MI3. Such a fantastic villain performance from the late great Phillip Seymour Hoffman and that was actually the movie that me a fan of franchise again.

Outside of Fallout its honestly still my favorite of the recent sequel entries.

 

[flickchick85]

get drew goddard to write and direct, JJ can exec produce

that would be my preference if JJ is involved at this point

I certainly wouldn't argue with that combo, either. But I think JJ would at least co-write. He loves Supes too much to not want to have a hand in it, imo.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

i just wouldn't leave him in charge of the whole story, he's fine when he has a writer to reign in some of his ideas

 

[Spider-Fan]

get drew goddard to write and direct, JJ can exec produce

that would be my preference if JJ is involved at this point

Drew Goddard would definitely peak my interest more.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

matt reeves on batman, goddard on superman

then the two of them team up for the ultimate bad robot blockbuster: Batman and Superman vs The Cloverfield monster

 

[flickchick85]

As much I did enjoy the first two Abrams Star Trek films and Cloverfield I really do think his most underrated film is MI3. Such a fantastic villain performance from the late great Phillip Seymour Hoffman and that was actually the movie that me a fan of franchise again.

Outside of Fallout its honestly still my favorite of the recent sequel entries.

MI3 is another one I was referring to when talking of JJ's strengths. He injected that much-needed relatability factor into the Mission: Impossible franchise. I mean, people thought he was crazy when they heard he was giving Ethan Hunt a wife, and yet Julia became a surprisingly effective emotional through-line for the entire 2nd half of that franchise. And Benji now feels like an indispensable part of the team and gave Hunt an actual entertaining dynamic with someone. Abrams transformed Hunt from an action figure to a character, and the subsequent creative teams built on that.

The Mission: Impossible franchise starting from Abrams' installment is basically my dream model for a Superman franchise, in terms of writer-directors: Abrams kick-starts on the first one, passes the baton to Brad Bird (with Chris McQuarrie co-writing) for the sequel and McQuarrie writes/directs the 3rd (he could even do that Rebirth-esque premise he supposedly pitched).

 

[Spider-Fan]

I guess we just disagree on the level of hollowness, because what I want for Supes is exactly what Whedon believes he himself gave to the Avengers: "a great time." I know you didn't, but I came out of Star Trek '09 with that feeling, and that's what I want coming out of Supes. Anything that gives me a character and relationships to believe in and makes me eager to follow them on further adventures is anything but hollow, imo. That's what the movies were about for me as a kid, and that's what I'm dying to get from Supes. I'm not looking for deep character deconstruction or heavy social commentary. Not in the first installment, anyway. People getting bogged down in what they wanted to say with the character rather than investing in the character himself is what got us in the mess we're in now, imo. They can explore that stuff in sequels, but for the first installment of a new era, I just want a movie that reminds everyone how FUN Supes can be. As much as a certain crowd hates that word.

I don't think it has to be TDK and super deep, but even Star Trek 09 has a villain who is a plot device rather than a character and other flaws. Not a bad movie by any means, but I know we can get better. What would be a great example of what Trek 09 did that was actually great was Wonder Woman. Patty Jenkins did everything JJ brings to the table in that movie, and beyond his capabilities as well. I think that we can get a movie that reminds us that Superman is fun that also manages to be great. I think JJ can deliver a decent movie, but some characters I just ask more from cause I know they're worthy of top tier. Superman and the Fantastic Four are 2 properties where I want to see a top tier CBM.

If JJ excites people, that's cool. I just have to see him deliver on the screen to be sold.

 

[flickchick85]

I don't think it has to be TDK and super deep, but even Star Trek 09 has a villain who is a plot device rather than a character and other flaws. Not a bad movie by any means, but I know we can get better. What would be a great example of what Trek 09 did that was actually great was Wonder Woman. Patty Jenkins did everything JJ brings to the table in that movie, and beyond his capabilities as well. I think that we can get a movie that reminds us that Superman is fun that also manages to be great. I think JJ can deliver a decent movie, but some characters I just ask more from cause I know they're worthy of top tier. Superman and the Fantastic Four are 2 properties where I want to see a top tier CBM.

If JJ excites people, that's cool. I just have to see him deliver on the screen to be sold.

Fair enough, agree to disagree.

 

[Iceman]

i just wouldn't leave him in charge of the whole story, he's fine when he has a writer to reign in some of his ideas

Yeah, he works well under a collaborative process.

 

[Wheels]

I guess we just disagree on the level of hollowness, because what I want for Supes is exactly what Whedon believes he himself gave to the Avengers: "a great time." I know you didn't, but I came out of Star Trek '09 with that feeling, and that's what I want coming out of Supes. Anything that gives me a character and relationships to believe in and makes me eager to follow them on further adventures is anything but hollow, imo. That's what the movies were about for me as a kid, and that's what I'm dying to get from Supes. I'm not looking for deep character deconstruction or heavy social commentary. Not in the first installment, anyway. People getting bogged down in what they wanted to say with the character rather than investing in the character himself is what got us in the mess we're in now, imo. They can explore that stuff in sequels, but for the first installment of a new era, I just want a movie that reminds everyone how FUN Supes can be. As much as a certain crowd hates that word.

Preach it.