Iron Fist Iron Fist General Discussion Thread - Part 2

[BatsDC]

And then they brag about it on Twitter. People are lovely, no?

 

[superman-mos]

I don't really get the racism they try and connect to Iron Fist . His comic in most of the runs has celebrated Asian tradition and culture , has multiple Asian characters with great characterization , with a main character that while not Asian shows great respect to the culture and is also mostly involved in a bi racial relationship with a African American and his best friend is also African American. I've always felt that Danny is meant to be our eyes viewing the culture that we our selves are outsiders to . He is the window we view that world from . Also I feel like the martial arts master having to be Asian is more of a racist stereotype than the white guy learning and mastering martial arts . Since when is it impossible for a white person to be able to master a martial art? Also marvel has multiple Asian martial artist that deserve as much of a spotlight , Shang Chi being the main one as well as newer Monkey King , Colleen Wing, The Cat , etc

 

[Random490]

It made me quite angry too. Even if a person truly believes that Iron Fist is a racist character and would be much better if played by an asian actor, it seems incredibly petty and vindictive to take it out on an actor who would have been stupid to turn down a role like this, instead of the company that actually makes the show. Especially considering that Finn's responses to them were incredibly reasonable, logical and respectful.

Scott Derrickson went into a lot of detail on the commentary to Doctor Strange about this subject. First you have to remember Hollywood has a very long and even very recent history of white washing roles. A lot of advocacy groups see Marvel films as a chance to get a main asian america actor in a lead role. Quite often asian actor are delegated to supporting roles at best but rarely are ever the main character. And quite often roles they do get are blatant stereotypes. So when they see a show with heavy asian influences with white lead of course they'll be upset, even if that's the source material. What they see is another easy chance for a major franchise to cast an asian lead that doesn't. And one thing Scott Derrickson says is that people and these groups should be angry, they should be vocal, they should try and change things and that all criticisms should be targeted to him, he takes full responsibility. I agree with that, not to the point of harassment, but the goal to advocate for change. Some people take it too far because it's something they feel very strongly about and with good reason(like the entire history of american media).

It's unfortunate that Marvel doesn't have many asian characters to base a movie or series around. Iron Fist could have been an easy, even if stereotypical, casting choice.

 

[BatsDC]

The trouble is, there was some criticism of Karnak's casting with an Asian actor because he's a martial artist and therefore casting an Asian actor is conforming to the typecast that Asians only ever play martial artists.

Marvel would have had a level of criticism lobbied at them either way with this casting - although I expect less-so had they actually cast an Asian, but it would still be there - it's a double edged sword.

Marvel should cast an Asian lead in the future; I'd like them too, but it'd be best to do it in a case where the stereotype complaint can't be hurled at them after they do so. I expect Namor will be Asian should he ever turn up.

 

[RaidenX]

 

[TheVileOne]

I guess white people knowing martial arts is racist now.

Finn Jones shouldn't have engaged in the debate on Twitter. For one, it's Twitter. People attacked Joss Whedon as being misogynist and anti-feminist on Twitter. Social media is garbage and people act like entitled jerks on Twitter. I get that Jones was trying to come off as this progressive inclusive type, but he's never going to win the argument and debate by trying to engage with crap on Twitter.

Look it's Twitter. You are limited with what you can say. You can't engage in an equal and honest debate on Twitter with just a handful of characters.

Just promote the show and don't worry about what these fringey blogs have to say. It goes both ways. Don't acknowledge the trolls complaining about Mad Max making Furiosa a lead character.

 

[GeckoMoria]

It really doesn't matter. marvel's appeal is bigger than any SJW clan. They are a phenomenon. Like Dr Strange if the property delivers no one will care about the controversy and SJW will be background noise.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

People should attack Marvel, not an actor.

Honestly I don't think we'll be seeing an Asian lead in the MCU anytime in the near future. I believe a good old white dude will be cast as Namor.

 

[samsnee]

This whole thing is dumb. I get people want an Asian lead actor. And they have a valid point. But what's done is done. So either watch the show and judge the final product or don't.

 

[RaidenX]

He's back on twitter

 

[TheVileOne]

People should attack Marvel, not an actor.

Honestly I don't think we'll be seeing an Asian lead in the MCU anytime in the near future. I believe a good old white dude will be cast as Namor.

Why should they attack Marvel? Marvel Netflix put out Luke Cage last year and Jessica Jones the year before that.

Should they attack DC Entertainment because of Arrow? Led by a GQ-cover esque dude who is a complete and utter rich *****e, goes to an island, gets trained in martial arts archery and combat by Asian and ethnic people, and is now a master crime fighter and vigilante? This is hot garbage. It's hot garbage.

I understand wanting equality and diversity in, but why do people have to be ashamed and like they did something wrong for white characters being white.

 

[Slick]

Not to get off topic but do you guys think that Foggy will cameo in IF? I mean he works for the same firm as Hogarth.

 

[TheVileOne]

I don't think it'd be all that surprising. Rachael Taylor had a vocal cameo in Luke Cage. Hogarth showed up for one scene in season 2 of Daredevil.

Also, didn't Cottonmouth and Kingpin have the same attorney?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So Finn left twitter recently because people are still mad that he's not asian. Sigh.

Good. Better for his health. When stuff gets stupid, no need to indulge the idiots.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Why should they attack Marvel? Marvel Netflix put out Luke Cage last year and Jessica Jones the year before that.

Should they attack DC Entertainment because of Arrow? Led by a GQ-cover esque dude who is a complete and utter rich *****e, goes to an island, gets trained in martial arts archery and combat by Asian and ethnic people, and is now a master crime fighter and vigilante? This is hot garbage. It's hot garbage.

I understand wanting equality and diversity in, but why do people have to be ashamed and like they did something wrong for white characters being white.

The Doctor Strange and Iron Fist stuff has been beyond stupid. You'd think the characters were changed to white for the film and show the way some are acting. But when you have no attachment or knowledge of the characters, I guess it is okay to abandon reason?

 

[Dasher10]

Ugh. It sucks that trolls went after Finn. Like I get that people feel like Danny Rand and Stephen Strange should have been Asian. But Karnak is an Asian superhero and Elektra's race was changed to make her Asian.

But if people actually read the Iron Fist comics, they'd know that the comics due tackle the issue of Danny Rand being white. Steel Serpent would have no reason to fight Danny if he weren't a white guy.

 

[TheVileOne]

Also, how well have the changes Marvel made to its characters in the comics paid off? Didn't readers soundly reject it in terms of sales?

I'm just saying. Marvel blatantly tried to cater to that crowd, and people didn't bite. Maybe *gasp* most readers prefer the iconic characters they know and love. And you know, not all of them are blonde white dudes.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It is also an odd discussion in terms of stereotyping. Freaking out because the guy who knows martial arts isn't Asian? Why not freak out over every role?

 

[TheVileOne]

Because he trained in a FICTIONAL city that's steeped in oriental mysticism. A city and order that's not even real and was created by white guys.

But race has never been a prerequisite for becoming a martial arts master.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Because he trained in a FICTIONAL city that's steeped in oriental mysticism. A city and order that's not even real and was created by white guys.

But race has never been a prerequisite for becoming a martial arts master.

MMA doesn't exist.

So the places a white person can explore must all be in the West and the Northern Hemisphere, with the exception of Australia.

 

[TheVileOne]

Say what you will about MMA but that's close as you can get to actual, legal hand to hand combat. As in not choreographed comic book, movie TV action.

Americans tend to be successful at it, very successful. Not just white Americans. Black Americans. Latin Americans, etc.

There are successful Asian MMA fighters. However, it seems the issue they face is that they don't have access to the super camps and level of training that American MMA fighters can get.

The Americans that are successful, most of them have been training in amateur wrestling from grade school. So that athlete mentality has been drilled in them since childhood. Brazilians seem to be natural grapplers and excellent BJJ practitioners, not all but many.

There are good Asian fighters, but most of them tend to be specialists and aren't as well rounded as the super-camp fighters because they are training and drilling in multiple styles nonstop.

I guess its racist of MMA when clean cut American white surfer dude Luke Rockhold was able to elbow the hell out of Lyoto Machida, a Brazilian Japanese MMA fighter and former UFC champion. And then Luke Rockhold got the hell knocked out of him by Michael Bisping, a white British MMA fighter who started out primarily as a kickboxer.

Anyway a tangent here, but I'm just giving real-live combat examples. In real ****ing fights and combat there's none of this "but so and so should be Asian in order to be good at stuff!"

 

[Dasher10]

Honestly, most of this wouldn't even be controversial if Marvel did a Shang Chi series. It would be self-contained so it wouldn't affect anything else. Shang Chi would be to the MCU what Legion is to the Fox-Men.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I'm not going to get into a long winded argument but I understand why people are frustrated about the situation. I just think that they should have directed their frustrations at Marvel. I'm not going to agree with probably anyone here about this and that's okay. I don't care whether my opinion is popular. You know it's taken Marvel 10 years to make a movie starring a black dude and 11 for one starring a woman. Maybe we'll see a Marvel thing starring an Asian person in 15 years. If that exists in the comics, I don't know.

 

[Jason Kane]

Why should they attack Marvel? Marvel Netflix put out Luke Cage last year and Jessica Jones the year before that.

Should they attack DC Entertainment because of Arrow? Led by a GQ-cover esque dude who is a complete and utter rich *****e, goes to an island, gets trained in martial arts archery and combat by Asian and ethnic people, and is now a master crime fighter and vigilante? This is hot garbage. It's hot garbage.

I understand wanting equality and diversity in, but why do people have to be ashamed and like they did something wrong for white characters being white.

Twenty years ago, those schmucks were Fluffy and Uranus from Duckman; non threatening and easy to dismiss.. Now they're Fluffy and Uranus after bath salts and homicidal

 

[Jason Kane]

Because social justice warriors don't think logically.

EGO Justice Warriors. They get off on ego not promoting social justice