Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

[psylockolussus]

What's the general thoughts on Wandavision this week where...

Spoiler

Wanda is now canon to being born with powers. The argument could be made that she was just born a Witch but Quicksilver would kind of switch that up.

Do they officially introduce Mutants next week? Or are they just gonna bypass and wait more?

I expect at the least for Evan Peters to be snapped out of the spell he's in, and wonder where the heck he is.

Spoiler

Wanda imo is unrelated to the mutants. And imo she's not needed as a gateway for the mutants.

 

[def28]

Spoiler

I guess the thing I keep thinking is, what would be the difference if she just didn't have powers till the stone interaction from a narrative standpoint. Like, why make an effort to change that now? Without the show talking about Pietro's powers and if he was born with them too.

I guess she wouldn't have seen that and since he's dead, there's nobody tell.

 

[psylockolussus]

I think we've got to stop seeing the shows as necessarily "lesser" than the movies. There are pros and cons to both and longform shows could work better for teams of characters. And the shows are a great avenue to shine a spotlight on smaller heroes who otherwise probably wouldn't get features. If there is a Psylocke show for example, that doesn't mean we've missed out on a Psylocke movie, it means we get a tv show for her where otherwise we probably wouldn't have gotten any sort of feature length content for her.

Its only going to appear as the "lesser" platform once Marvel studios started doing streaming shows for the Avengers team, Spider-Man, Thor, Capt. Marvel featuring these in demand movie actors.

But right now, the Disney+ shows are still for the ones that didn't get their solo movie or the ones that can't get a solo film (She Hulk due to Universal). It doesn't matter how good the series is. I've watched WandaVision so far (8 eps out of 9) and it could have easily been a 2hr theaterical movie.

Also Disney+ still ain't available in every country in the world. How do you think I'm watching WandaVision right now? That alone puts the films above streaming series IMHO when it comes to MCU releases.

 

[Protar]

Its only going to appear as the "lesser" platform once Marvel studios started doing streaming shows for the Avengers team, Spider-Man, Thor, Capt. Marvel featuring these in demand movie actors.

It's still lesser in that the biggest characters will be the ones with films and smaller characters with shows, but the quality is just as high as the films if they continue the quality of Wandavision. Television isn't a lesser medium than film, the scope might be a little smaller but the character development is greater. And Marvel is closing the gap between the two mediums. When characters introduced on D+ like Miss Marvel are starring in blockbusters how much lesser will the shows really be?

But right now, the Disney+ shows are still for the ones that didn't get their solo movie or the ones that can't get a solo film (She Hulk due to Universal).

That was part of my point. Another great part of the shows is that it lets smaller characters step into the spotlight and become leads. There is no space on the schedule for every mid-tier mutant to get a feature length movie. If Psylocke gets a show instead of a movie, she won't have been downgraded, she'll have been given hours of bonus content that she otherwise would probably never have gotten.

It doesn't matter how good the series is. I've watched WandaVision so far (8 eps out of 9) and it could have easily been a 2hr theaterical movie.

Wandavision wouldn't work as a movie. The era an episode thing is fundamental. Another good thing about the shows - they can explore formats the movies can't. Stuff like monster or case of the week, looser narratives with sideplots etc.

Also Disney+ still ain't available in every country in the world. How do you think I'm watching WandaVision right now? That alone puts the films above streaming series IMHO when it comes to MCU releases.

Can only agree with you here.

 

[psylockolussus]

1. It's still lesser in that the biggest characters will be the ones with films and smaller characters with shows, but the quality is just as high as the films if they continue the quality of Wandavision. Television isn't a lesser medium than film, the scope might be a little smaller but the character development is greater. And Marvel is closing the gap between the two mediums. When characters introduced on D+ like Miss Marvel are starring in blockbusters how much lesser will the shows really be?

2. That was part of my point. Another great part of the shows is that it lets smaller characters step into the spotlight and become leads. There is no space on the schedule for every mid-tier mutant to get a feature length movie. If Psylocke gets a show instead of a movie, she won't have been downgraded, she'll have been given hours of bonus content that she otherwise would probably never have gotten.

3. Wandavision wouldn't work as a movie. The era an episode thing is fundamental. Another good thing about the shows - they can explore formats the movies can't. Stuff like monster or case of the week, looser narratives with sideplots etc.

1. When I meant lesser, I meant audience reach and popularity. Lots of the shows out there are better than mcu movies for eXample however still mcu movies had bigger budget - which could mean better vfx, scoring, production value, filming locations, etc. Also you can't say Marvel studios is closing the gap when we have only seen 1 streaming series from Marvel Studios. That would take years to see if these streaming shows are as consistent as the MCU movies. Remember the time when people raved about Marvel NetfliX?

2. Psylocke the tv series vs psylocke the movie might not get the same budget, one might not film 3 international locations, one might not book a movie actor, etc.... Just watch most action TV shows out there and compare them to action movies. Its not unrealistic to eXpect that there won't be a difference when it comes to production value. And I prefer if we get a 2 hour movie instead of a streaming series filled with filler episodes and filler moments. I've watched WandaVision, a lot of scenes there are filler for example, those throwback ads/intros.

3. Any good editor could squeeze those sitcom eras in a good 20 minute run. WandaVision is also a highly serialized show and didn't feature a monster of the week formula.

 

[SuperT]

What's the general thoughts on Wandavision this week where...

Spoiler

Wanda is now canon to being born with powers. The argument could be made that she was just born a Witch but Quicksilver would kind of switch that up.

Do they officially introduce Mutants next week? Or are they just gonna bypass and wait more?

I expect at the least for Evan Peters to be snapped out of the spell he's in, and wonder where the heck he is.

Spoiler

I too initially thought they were implying she was a mutant since she had her powers before the mind stone but now that I've sat and thought more and seen other peoples thoughts - if she was a mutant wouldn't Agatha have just said that instead of calling her The Scarlet Witch.

I'm thinking she's just a part of a long line of pre-destined witches to take on the Scarlet Witch mantle and not a mutant after all which kinda sucks since I was hoping for at least a slight introduction to mutants here.

But as some people have said, that still doesn't explain Pietro and how he got his powers.

 

[TheVileOne]

Spoiler

If Wanda is mutant and not a witch, then what does that make Agatha?

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Spoiler

If Wanda is mutant and not a witch, then what does that make Agatha?

Spoiler

it seems like Agatha was inferring that spells require practice yet wanda can do them naturally. I think Agatha like Dr. Strange is born human but attain magic through learning.

 

[Protar]

1. When I meant lesser, I meant audience reach and popularity. Lots of the shows out there are better than mcu movies for eXample however still mcu movies had bigger budget - which could mean better vfx, scoring, production value, filming locations, etc. Also you can't say Marvel studios is closing the gap when we have only seen 1 streaming series from Marvel Studios. That would take years to see if these streaming shows are as consistent as the MCU movies. Remember the time when people raved about Marvel NetfliX?

2. Psylocke the tv series vs psylocke the movie might not get the same budget, one might not film 3 international locations, one might not book a movie actor, etc.... Just watch most action TV shows out there and compare them to action movies. Its not unrealistic to eXpect that there won't be a difference when it comes to production value. And I prefer if we get a 2 hour movie instead of a streaming series filled with filler episodes and filler moments. I've watched WandaVision, a lot of scenes there are filler for example, those throwback ads/intros.

3. Any good editor could squeeze those sitcom eras in a good 20 minute run. WandaVision is also a highly serialized show and didn't feature a monster of the week formula.

I mean Marvel Netflix provided us with some of the best television of the decade. We got moments that we'd never have gotten with a 2 hour Daredevil movie. Each of the shows is getting a budget close to a blockbuster movie. That's still less money per episode but it's still pretty damn impressive and not necessarily an impediment depending on the story. I think we'll have a better picture of just what the shows are capable of when Falcon and the Winter Soldier comes out, which promises some more traditional MCU action.

I feel like you're missing my point there in regards to a potential Psylocke show (Or indeed an Emma Frost show or a gambit show.). I get it if you prefer a Psylocke movie over a show as your ideal, dream scenario, but that isn't necessarily a choice here. There are still only 4 slots for movies each year as opposed to the six or so shows each year. So it's not a choice of Psylocke getting a movie or a show, it's probably more a choice between her getting a show or not getting to be a lead at all.

 

[universeman]

About WandaVision episode 8.

Spoiler

While that reveal could debunk Mutant Wanda, Disney/Marvel did release a book called the Wakanda Files that revealed Hydra chose Wanda, and Pietro because they had the correct genetic markers for the experiment.

If Wanda is just a witch then why did Disney/Marvel do that? Also would Feige just have the big reveal about Wanda be revealed in episode eight, and not the finale?

I don't know I just feel like he's saving the real reveals for the finale.

 

[Protar]

About WandaVision episode 8.

Spoiler

While that reveal could debunk Mutant Wanda, Disney/Marvel did release a book called the Wakanda Files that revealed Hydra chose Wanda, and Pietro because they had the correct genetic markers for the experiment.

If Wanda is just a witch then why did Disney/Marvel do that? Also would Feige just have the big reveal about Wanda be revealed in episode eight, and not the finale?

I don't know I just feel like he's saving the real reveals for the finale.

Spoiler

I think the big reveal could be what exactly "the Scarlet Witch" is. Agatha speaks of it as though it's some legendary title. I think it'll lead into the reveal that Wanda is a nexus being - a multiversal constant.

 

[psylockolussus]

I mean Marvel Netflix provided us with some of the best television of the decade. We got moments that we'd never have gotten with a 2 hour Daredevil movie. Each of the shows is getting a budget close to a blockbuster movie. That's still less money per episode but it's still pretty damn impressive and not necessarily an impediment depending on the story. I think we'll have a better picture of just what the shows are capable of when Falcon and the Winter Soldier comes out, which promises some more traditional MCU action.

I feel like you're missing my point there in regards to a potential Psylocke show (Or indeed an Emma Frost show or a gambit show.). I get it if you prefer a Psylocke movie over a show as your ideal, dream scenario, but that isn't necessarily a choice here. There are still only 4 slots for movies each year as opposed to the six or so shows each year. So it's not a choice of Psylocke getting a movie or a show, it's probably more a choice between her getting a show or not getting to be a lead at all.

Oh now its because everyone can't get a movie? Again, if streaming series is now the new go to platform, Marvel studios won't hesitate to make a streaming series for the Avengers team, Spider-Man, Capt. Marvel and these in demand actors like Chris Hemsworth, Chris Pratt, Tom Holland, Rdj would headline their own MCU streaming series. Plus the characters that they are portraying are certainly bigger. NeXt thing you'd say, everyone can't get a streaming service because they already appeared in the movies but that didn't stop Hawkeye, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, War Machine, Nick Fury, WandaVision and Loki. You are making eXcuses here.

And it doesn't matter if you think Daredevil was the show of thedecade. The final season of it barely made any buzz so as the 2nd season of Jessica Jones, the Punisher, Iron Fist and Luke Cage. While the Defenders didn't eXactly became of the Avengers of streaming services. They literally came and went. You don't have any evidence that its suddenly going to be different with D+ shows after just seeing 1 MCU streaming series in D+

Also once Marvel Studios give each episode of their shows a budget of 100 million then you should quote me on that. But most likely a single show gets a 150 to 200 million for the entire season they are going to budget that around 6 to 10 episodes. Sure its massive for a streaming series but I am notcomparing this to Tv shows but Mcu movies .and WandaVision doesn't even look on par with phase 1 movies, in terms of production value. Not even the cinematography. Also look at the costume of the female character in the last episode, it reminded me of Once Upon a Time.

 

[universeman]

Spoiler

I think the big reveal could be what exactly "the Scarlet Witch" is. Agatha speaks of it as though it's some legendary title. I think it'll lead into the reveal that Wanda is a nexus being - a multiversal constant.

Spoiler

So a Jean/Phoenix 2.0 which MCU Wanda does come across as a Jean Grey 2.0 lol.

If MCU Wanda isn't a Mutant, and since Feige said the Multiverse is the future of the MCU then maybe they can introduce a Mutant Wanda/Scarlet Witch from the Multiverse to go with Peters Quicksilver if he is Fox Quicksilver that is.

 

[SumT]

The 'either all 20 X-Men get a movie or none' has always being ridiculous to me.

The Xmen have a huge roster, its impossible to get 20 solo movies, so if Feige wants to make 3 solo movies and 5 solo D+ shows (aside from team spinoffs), then let it be, and we all will enjoy them as we never ever did at Fox franchise.

But imagine Feige asking us 'Do you preffer 12 x-projects or just 3' and some fans saying 'just 3'

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

As far as WandaVision goes...

Spoiler

I still think Wanda is a mutant, when she was a kid and used her powers to stop that Stark bomb for going off for two days that had to be more than magic. Agatha probably is just looking at her through a magical lens instead of a mutant one.

 

[Protar]

The 'either all 20 X-Men get a movie or none' has always being ridiculous to me.

The Xmen have a huge roster, its impossible to get 20 solo movies, so if Feige wants to make 3 solo movies and 5 solo D+ shows (aside from team spinoffs), then let it be, and we all will enjoy them as we never ever did at Fox franchise.

But imagine Feige asking us 'Do you preffer 12 x-projects or just 3' and some fans saying 'just 3'

Absolutely, the shows should be looked at as bonus content in quantities unthinkable just a few years ago. Not "damn, my favourite character got a show and not a movie."

 

[def28]

Spoiler

I too initially thought they were implying she was a mutant since she had her powers before the mind stone but now that I've sat and thought more and seen other peoples thoughts - if she was a mutant wouldn't Agatha have just said that instead of calling her The Scarlet Witch.

I'm thinking she's just a part of a long line of pre-destined witches to take on the Scarlet Witch mantle and not a mutant after all which kinda sucks since I was hoping for at least a slight introduction to mutants here.

But as some people have said, that still doesn't explain Pietro and how he got his powers.

Spoiler

Yeah, I've been trying to read different thoughts too. Don't think there's a way to really answer quite yet.

With Agatha not calling her a mutant, maybe it's because the term mutant is not a thing quite yet in the MCU universe. Might need to be introduced to us for the first time either by someone more scientific or a mutant themself. If that is Peters Quicksilver (don't see why it wouldn't), then I would expect that to be name dropped soon.

A lot of the magic in the MCU seems like energy projection which goes along with many X-Men powers so I hope they really define the difference. Super Speed def does not seem like a pure witch trait at all. Maybe she could have powered him like Monica?

The comics are all over the place with some of the lore and powers. With A few X-Men characters who know Sorcery, Mutants have been called Witches or Gods and also have ties to celestials, demons and aliens. Lots of routes.

They could connect Wanda directly with Chthon and have him be responsible for her powers at birth maybe?

 

[universeman]

As far as WandaVision goes...

Spoiler

I still think Wanda is a mutant, when she was a kid and used her powers to stop that Stark bomb for going off for two days that had to be more than magic. Agatha probably is just looking at her through a magical lens instead of a mutant one.

Spoiler

Now that you mentioned it, what if the big Luke Skywalker cameo is Professor X, and as you said Agatha is looking at her through a magical lens, so they bring in the Professor to have him look at Wanda through a Mutant one?

If they want to make her a Mutant, but not reveal she's Magneto Daughter yet, then the Professor would work, and having the Professor be the one to reveal she's a Mutant, Mutants exist in the MCU, etc. etc. would be an ideal way of doing it.

Also Hayward reminds me of Stryker, and so far I actually find him to be more of the villain than Agatha. .

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Spoiler

Now that you mentioned it, what if the big Luke Skywalker cameo is Professor X, and as you said Agatha is looking at her through a magical lens, so they bring in the Professor to have him look at Wanda through a Mutant one?

If they want to make her a Mutant, but not reveal she's Magneto Daughter yet, then the Professor would work, and having the Professor be the one to reveal she's a Mutant, Mutants exist in the MCU, etc. etc. would be an ideal way of doing it.

Also Hayward reminds me of Stryker, and so far I actually find him to be more of the villain than Agatha. .

I actually love that idea. But I think we’re still ways off for that.

 

[def28]

Spoiler

Yeah, Prof X is who I would like this alleged cameo to be. But not getting hopes up. I don't really know who would be a better choice to explain mutants for the first time.

 

[psylockolussus]

The 'either all 20 X-Men get a movie or none' has always being ridiculous to me. The Xmen have a huge roster, its impossible to get 20 solo movies, so if Feige wants to make 3 solo movies and 5 solo D+ shows (aside from team spinoffs), then let it be, and we all will enjoy them as we never ever did at Fox franchise. But imagine Feige asking us 'Do you preffer 12 x-projects or just 3' and some fans saying 'just 3'

Making solo movies for only 1 to 3 X-Men, would obviously highlight who are the more important characters to them leaving other characters to settle for the neXt best thing or nothing at all.

Surely a Storm movie, another Wolverine trilogy would get in theway for more X-Men team movies or if not, we would wait longer for more team movies, especially Marvel Studios has like other dozen properties getting their own movies.... people here are already complaining that we aren't getting the X-Men soon enougg because Marvel Studios is making movies for Blade, F4, Deadpool first and that they aren't eXcited for Eternals and Shang-Chi. What else more if they include a Storm solo and The Wolverine trilogy in that line up?

You should stop laughing with your direct post at me "picking over 3 projects over 12". I didn't say I only want a trilogy. That passive agressiveness is not cute. What a way to twist my words.

I don't want Marvel Studios to condense the X-Men to a trilogy. I definitely want X-Men 1 to 12 and an Anthology origin series eXclusive for D+. Just don't eXpect me to jump up and down when a Psylocke D+ series is announced and that the Wolverine is getting another film trilogy. And Beast only gets a short cartoon film. Maybe you would.

 

[Silvermoth]

I'm enjoying WandaVision but... we had to wait 8 weeks.

In my mind, A X-Men Origin anthology series would be fast paced. Its like Lost but without the present day scenes. And you don't need to wait for weeks just to see how that character gained their power or how they croXed path with the X-Men. And they could use different set of characters in each of the episode.

I think waiting weekly has been really handy actually. For example, we never would have gotten the “Agatha all along” memes if it had been released all in one go plus people would have watched the whole thing in one blob and immediately ran online and spoiled the lot

 

[psylockolussus]

I think waiting weekly has been really handy actually. For example, we never would have gotten the “Agatha all along” memes if it had been released all in one go plus people would have watched the whole thing in one blob and immediately ran online and spoiled the lot

I am definitely against with the netfliX strategy of dropping all episodes at the same time.

However, IF I watch WandaVision again, i would probably just fastforward to the juicier parts. The episodes are short but then 1/3 of the scenes in Westfield from ep1/2/4/5/6 are filler to me. The sitcom eras imo weren't justified to have their own episodes (story wise) especially

Spoiler

they managed to show us all those flashbacks (set in different time periods which were more interesting) in a single episode just fine.

I would like to see a movie cut of WandaVision (if someone makes that) that removes all the filler moments and that would improve the show's pacing. Also from what I'm reading online, some people are surprised how fastly paced the last episode was and others said, the pacing is faster now because they are now ramping things up for the finale.

Just like the NetfliX shows, I definitely think this one stretched a single storyline to 9 episodes, that could have easily been told in a 2 hour movie. Also the only character really developed in this IMO is Wanda, and they could have renamed it just "Scarlet witch" instead of calling it WandaVision as Vision definitely acts like a supporting character to Wanda and not a lead. The premise of this was rather simple especially after finding the revelations in episode 8. This isn't a produceral drama that you can't cram 10 cases in a 2 hour movie. And this isn't like Lost as well in which you would lose so much character development from the cast if you trim the entire season to a 2 hour film.

 

[SumT]

Making solo movies for only 1 to 3 X-Men, would obviously highlight who are the more important characters to them leaving other characters to settle for the neXt best thing or nothing at all.

Surely a Storm movie, another Wolverine trilogy would get in theway for more X-Men team movies or if not, we would wait longer for more team movies, especially Marvel Studios has like other dozen properties getting their own movies.... people here are already complaining that we aren't getting the X-Men soon enougg because Marvel Studios is making movies for Blade, F4, Deadpool first and that they aren't eXcited for Eternals and Shang-Chi. What else more if they include a Storm solo and The Wolverine trilogy in that line up?

You should stop laughing with your direct post at me "picking over 3 projects over 12". I didn't say I only want a trilogy. That passive agressiveness is not cute. What a way to twist my words.

I don't want Marvel Studios to condense the X-Men to a trilogy. I definitely want X-Men 1 to 12 and an Anthology origin series eXclusive for D+. Just don't eXpect me to jump up and down when a Psylocke D+ series is announced and that the Wolverine is getting another film trilogy. And Beast only gets a short cartoon film. Maybe you would.

you are the one assuming only Wolverine will get various movies, saying a "trilogy", and that only 3 solo movies will be made.

What if Feige wants 5 solo movies for 5 different X-Men? would that really be a bad thing? if we get 5 x-men perfectly well developed, while some others get nice development on the team movies and even 3-4 secondary x-men get their own shows, so basically 8-10 x-men would get great development over movies and shows?

isnt this exactly what most fans want? as many x-men developed as possible?
the best way to do this is to do both movies, team/solo, and tv shows. You complain about waiting 3 years for a team movie, but then you complain if Marvel decided to do x-men shows in the meantime, so it seems like you dont have a clear idea of what you really want. Sometimes it seems like you dont really want the x-men to shine as much as they could, getting 6 hours dedicated to them, or 2 hours, or 4 hours if some get a second movie.

Most fans on here seem to want as much development and projects as possible, team and solo.
and you mostly want team movies.

So its pretty obvious that you want less development for the x-men than the rest of the users on here, according to your approach. Its math, after all.

 

[psylockolussus]

Yeah I prefer team movies. So_What.mp3 its not for youto laugh at. It also doesn't mean its less development. Do you think Darcy got more character development by appearing in WandaVision? I don't. Phil Caulson also got more screentime more than anyone in the mcu, did it matter? No.