The Amazing Spider-Man Raimi: "I have total creative control for Spider-Man 4"

[Darkness Falls]

very good news

 

[dark_b]

i already said in more threads.
only venom was forced? am i right?

what about the dancing,crying ,different killer for uncle ben,sandman becoming a good guy and spiderman forgives him that he killed people(hoooooooooooow). this was all avi?

 

[dark_b]

people need to decide now. was Raimi having creatice control the first two times? if he never had creative control then we dont know what will happen now. could be even worse.

if he had creative control the first two times and didnt have the third time he is a complete idiot. why would you let the studio take over the story and use you as a puppet?
why is here Raimi saying that hes good friend Avi Arad?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XKhcVjRu2Y

so many questions. and not enough answers.

 

[November Rain]

i trust raimi as far as my car can throw him

 

[VenomVsSpidey]

^^^

and that aint far haha

 

[November Rain]

i'd like to find out

 

[Reikowolf]

sweet. Spider-Man 2 will finally get the sequel it deserves

bring on Kraven and Lizard

 

[Reikowolf]

people need to decide now. was Raimi having creatice control the first two times? if he never had creative control then we dont know what will happen now. could be even worse.

if he had creative control the first two times and didnt have the third time he is a complete idiot. why would you let the studio take over the story and use you as a puppet?
why is here Raimi saying that hes good friend Avi Arad?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XKhcVjRu2Y

so many questions. and not enough answers.

Sony and Marvel were paying him to make a movie. They are considering toy, marketing, comic sales.
I'm amazed he's had the amount of control he's had. Somewhere around 2, Marvel decided that it was because of them that the movies were doing well, not because of Raimi.

They voiced themselves further and Raimi trusted their opinion even though he didn't think it would work on screen. He did the best job possible but has learned from this and is taking a harder stance on his opinion for the movie.

 

[dark_b]

in other words.....more dancing? because that was from raimi. more love dialoge from kirsten and tobey

''tell me you love me''

 

[Reikowolf]

in other words.....more dancing? because that was from raimi. more love dialoge from kirsten and tobey

''tell me you love me''

I'm pretty sure that wasn't his idea as he never wanted Venom in the script. The entire dance scene was a culmination of that.

-Peter uses Gwen to make MJ jealous
-The symbiote makes Peter cocky
-Peter ends up hitting MJ

"Okay Sam, we have a winning formula here, but the fans want to see Venom as he is the fan favourite. So this is what you do, we keep your Sandman idea but we enhance the revenge aspect to his link with the death of Uncle Ben by making him have the black suit, we also make him cocky from the suit and this puts a strain on his relationship with MJ. Also, he begins to hit on Gwen which causes issues with Eddie Brock who later becomes Venom. Also, because him and MJ are having problems, this is when Harry will come in and use it to his revenge. We can play that part up as his heart break makes him angry towards MJ. Now, this is going to be a lot of drama for the kids, so we got to keep it upbeat and have some humor in there too. People loved the montage in SM2, do that again but make it so that Peter seems cocky."

I think the only story element I had an issue with was that Sandman was Uncle Ben's killer. I think they had enough with Harry's revenge and didn't need to add that in.

hmmm, I wonder if someone were to make a cut of SM3 and eleminate the Venom factor, or at least tone it down a bit. I think the movie may play out a lot better as you have the Harry/Peter story as well as Gwen in there. All of this while he also needs to deal with the threat of the Sandman.

 

[dark_b]

with all due respect ....are you trying to say now that the dancing was from arad? this was all Raimi's style.

maybe he didnt want venom in the movie. but this was hes F... interpretation of bad Peter Parker.

 

[November Rain]

*inhale*

Spoiler

raimi makes spidey a likeable victim of circumstances

peter parker is actually an arrogant bastard stuck in life long attonement. he shouldn't be liked by the viewers let alone the people in his own universe.

his only redeeming characteristic is his ability to stick at doing the right thing in a completely selfless manner.

i want more 'hey he stole that guy's pizza' and less 'thank you mr spiderman' and parades please.

I don't think i've ever seen such poor adaptation of a character widely accepted by 'fans'.

I'll know you'll complain about my stance but in all the great stories of spiderman, his greatest victories have come at a cost of something personal. He's the captain of bitter sweet. Raimi's spiderman pretty much always has his cake and eats it.

i also hope raimis clears up peter's abadoning of uncle ben in part 2, never to re-affirm himself with it. MJ's his sole beacon of righteousness in the films, aunt may and uncle ben guilt is irrelevant and he doesn't mind extending fights with ock while her life's in the balance OR moving out of his home MONTHS after the goblin blew it up, or helping her with bills or anything remotely responsible.

anyone that trusts raimi is destined for dissapointment, all of the basics lie in amazing fantasy, to overlook this obvious characterisation issue is beyond ignorance. He therefore either has the attention span of a goldfish or is illiterate.

*exhale*

i apologise for this rant, this topic really gets me...

 

[venom892]

I just hope the movie is on par with 1 and 2.I believe a movie with only Sandman and Harry as villains would have worked so well.Of course the whole Sandman killing Ben thing would have still sucked and I'm sure those crappy useless scenes between MJ and Harry dancing and cooking eggs and the over dramatic crying would have still been there.So you never know.But i just wish Venom would have never been pushed on Rami.

 

[Reikowolf]

I'm trying to say the dancing was from Alvin Sargent

but

I regress.

I can't find a good argument to prove that the sequence was not Raimi's call other than he did not have the same creative control over SM3 as he did SM1-2.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

*inhale*

Spoiler

raimi makes spidey a likeable victim of circumstances

peter parker is actually an arrogant bastard stuck in life long attonement. he shouldn't be liked by the viewers let alone the people in his own universe.

his only redeeming characteristic is his ability to stick at doing the right thing in a completely selfless manner.

i want more 'hey he stole that guy's pizza' and less 'thank you mr spiderman' and parades please.

I don't think i've ever seen such poor adaptation of a character widely accepted by 'fans'.

I'll know you'll complain about my stance but in all the great stories of spiderman, his greatest victories have come at a cost of something personal. He's the captain of bitter sweet. Raimi's spiderman pretty much always has his cake and eats it.

i also hope raimis clears up peter's abadoning of uncle ben in part 2, never to re-affirm himself with it. MJ's his sole beacon of righteousness in the films, aunt may and uncle ben guilt is irrelevant and he doesn't mind extending fights with ock while her life's in the balance OR moving out of his home MONTHS after the goblin blew it up, or helping her with bills or anything remotely responsible.

anyone that trusts raimi is destined for dissapointment, all of the basics lie in amazing fantasy, to overlook this obvious characterisation issue is beyond ignorance. He therefore either has the attention span of a goldfish or is illiterate.

*exhale*

i apologise for this rant, this topic really gets me...

What in God's name are you even talking about? Did you even watch these movies? I can understand people disliking a movie and stuff but most of your "problems" with the series are factually wrong.

For example, Peter moved out of Aunt May's home before the Goblin attacked it, Peter decided to become Spider-Man again before MJ was in danger. Spidey 3 is all about Peter and Uncle Ben.

Like I said you don't have to like the movies but your complaints are simply wrong. But hey I guess that means I'm not a fan, just a 'fan'

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Fact of the matter is, if Raimi had total creative control over SM3 then we wouldn't have had the symbiote which means no silly dancing emo Parker. I understand it was Raimi's interpretation of "bad" Parker but still, he wanted nothing to do with that whole storyline to begin with. So the chances of him screwing it up were high since his heart wasn't in it from the beginning. And he has admitted to not really grasping/caring for that storyline and it's characters so the end result was bound to be weak.

 

[November Rain]

movie parker has not once contributed to aunt may's keep and let her live on her own after the goblin attacked it. so he moves out of harry's apartment and into his own without a thought for his aunt who has to deal with fixing her house and her health and parker doesn't give a rat's ass with it, it doesn't even contribute to the struggles of juggling life or his benefits of not having spidey.

consciously, sure, but subconciously, it was mj's danger that triggers his powers back, his powers cut when aunt may is in danger( i mean a safe did nearly drop on her head and then he leaves her alone at the bank wtf), and don't activate when innocents in a burning house but everything is peachy for MJ's life.

spidey 3 is about pete keeping his ego in check, not his relationship with his uncle. his ego is all over the place initially and then gets amplified with the symbiote, the uncle ben thing is a plot device, he doesn't even care about him after 'he kills sandman'. uncle ben's moral influence plays no further part in movie spidey once he gets out of that car in the dream sequence in part 2. he's flying solo

raimi screwed up movie parker from the first monologue in the first film and has continued to do it all the way through. I'm surprised it took people 3 films to find out

 

[LightningFlash]

Now maybe people will stop placing the blame for SM3 just on Raimi. All he was doing was taking orders from Arad.

He can say he will have creative control all he wants, because he still just took it up the ass with Arad. I would rather have heard something about Raimi saying "He gave me idiotic ideas, so I said 'screw you Avi'". But no.

A director should have ALL control with his movies.

 

[Reikowolf]

movie parker has not once contributed to aunt may's keep and let her live on her own after the goblin attacked it. so he moves out of harry's apartment and into his own without a thought for his aunt who has to deal with fixing her house and her health and parker doesn't give a rat's ass with it, it doesn't even contribute to the struggles of juggling life or his benefits of not having spidey.

consciously, sure, but subconciously, it was mj's danger that triggers his powers back, his powers cut when aunt may is in danger( i mean a safe did nearly drop on her head and then he leaves her alone at the bank wtf), and don't activate when innocents in a burning house but everything is peachy for MJ's life.

spidey 3 is about pete keeping his ego in check, not his relationship with his uncle. his ego is all over the place initially and then gets amplified with the symbiote, the uncle ben thing is a plot device, he doesn't even care about him after 'he kills sandman'. uncle ben's moral influence plays no further part in movie spidey once he gets out of that car in the dream sequence in part 2. he's flying solo

raimi screwed up movie parker from the first monologue in the first film and has continued to do it all the way through. I'm surprised it took people 3 films to find out

I don't agree with you but I think Aunt May should have played a much larger role in SM2. It should have been her held captive at the end of the movie and not MJ. Loosely like in the comic plot where she's sick and dying and Peter needs to get her medicine.

That way they could have had the movie parallel of one of the best Spidey/Ock fights with aunt may's life in the balance.

Even though that third act was a little weak, I still loved SM2.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

movie parker has not once contributed to aunt may's keep

Because he can't afford to, he hasn't got the money, a great source of guilt for him

and let her live on her own after the goblin attacked it. so he moves out of harry's apartment and into his own without a thought for his aunt who has to deal with fixing her house and her health and parker doesn't give a rat's ass with it, it doesn't even contribute to the struggles of juggling life or his benefits of not having spidey.

Why would he move back in with her? The Goblin is dead. Not to mention one of the reasons he isolates himself from the people he loves is to prtect should someone else discover his identity. Plus she is a grown woman and perfectly capable of looking after herself and wouldn't want to impose himself on her nephew who is just starting out in life.

And when he's not Spidey how is he meant to contribute to Aunt May when he has lost his only source of income?

Her health isn't even an issue in the films.

consciously, sure, but subconciously, it was mj's danger that triggers his powers back, his powers cut when aunt may is in danger( i mean a safe did nearly drop on her head and then he leaves her alone at the bank wtf), and don't activate when innocents in a burning house but everything is peachy for MJ's life.

No. His powers cut in and out as he loses them so they do the same when he is getting them back. Or did you think that the four year old girl actually had the strenght to pull him up? Or that a normal guy can fall 50 or so feet, crash into a wall and fall onto a car and walk around like nothing happened the day after? And the only reason he and Mj weren't killed when the car was thrown at him is because his spider-sense was already working.

spidey 3 is about pete keeping his ego in check, not his relationship with his uncle. his ego is all over the place initially and then gets amplified with the symbiote, the uncle ben thing is a plot device, he doesn't even care about him after 'he kills sandman'. uncle ben's moral influence plays no further part in movie spidey once he gets out of that car in the dream sequence in part 2. he's flying solo

It's all about his ego? So in that last scene with Sandman is Peter forgiving him for hurting his ego? No. His ego plays a part but so much of it is about Uncle Ben as well. It's a movie about fathers, two characters are driven to do wrong because of what happened to their fathers, one is driven to do wrong because he is a father

raimi screwed up movie parker from the first monologue in the first film and has continued to do it all the way through. I'm surprised it took people 3 films to find out

No he didn't. I take it you're referring to "It's a story all about a girl line." That was Peter's point of view was at the time. His journey is about growing up, in high school most guys lives revolve around a girl and then they grow up and see life has more important things to offer. Which is why by the end of the movie Peter has realised that it's not all about a girl and that is why he WALKS AWAY FROM HER! Because now his life is more important than that.

 

[Reikowolf]

NR had a good point about his powers and how MJ in danger brought them back...

but to present the argument. Spider-Man's powers gave out for a second in the bank when it was him and Ock one on one.

When Aunt May was kidnapped, his powers were in full "swing"

So its a flight of fight response where they kick in when he needs them. In the bank it was him versus Ock and May was in no direct danger until Ock took her as a hostage.

 

[November Rain]

Because he can't afford to, he hasn't got the money, a great source of guilt for him

alright, so if your grandma can't even afford $100 to open an account, you wouldnt move back in and then buy a scooter on top of that. instead selfless parker moves into another flat 'on his own', not even sharing, on his own.

you say parker's guilty, show me a scene in three films where he attempts to do something about it?

Why would he move back in with her? The Goblin is dead. Not to mention one of the reasons he isolates himself from the people he loves is to prtect should someone else discover his identity. Plus she is a grown woman and perfectly capable of looking after herself and wouldn't want to impose himself on her nephew who is just starting out in life.

a) someone has to fix her broken house

b)someone has to earn money for th ekeep

if she was so capable, why was she behind on the bills in the first place?

this is the same parker who takes money from is aunt and is happy to empty out her wallet but pretty much lets her be and allows the family home to be loss. instead he goes and dwells his own problems with her, he never asks how she's doing or whether she wants help.

this is the same character who apparently would deal with the devil to save her, he doesn't give a rat's ass in the films.

And when he's not Spidey how is he meant to contribute to Aunt May when he has lost his only source of income?

spidey times allows him better hours for a proper job to keep up with his own rent and help her with her bills. The whole job aspect of being rid of spidey is never really touched upon after he loses his job.

Her health isn't even an issue in the films.

she was put in hospital over her house being blown up. They can't even follow with that continuity in the next films.

the attack from ock should have left her in a similar position.

No. His powers cut in and out as he loses them so they do the same when he is getting them back. Or did you think that the four year old girl actually had the strenght to pull him up? Or that a normal guy can fall 50 or so feet, crash into a wall and fall onto a car and walk around like nothing happened the day after? And the only reason he and Mj weren't killed when the car was thrown at him is because his spider-sense was already working.

pete's got conscioius and sub-concious powers. his durability was always intact, they were intact when he fell all the way through the film. his spider sense is also subconcious, he has no concious means to activate it.

the child was supposed to be helping him, to what end remains to be seen but 'helping people up' is something that's been exagerrated in all films in hollywood.

it was aunt's may's life in danger that caused him to go after ock in the first place.

[quoe]
It's all about his ego? So in that last scene with Sandman is Peter forgiving him for hurting his ego? No. His ego plays a part but so much of it is about Uncle Ben as well. It's a movie about fathers, two characters are driven to do wrong because of what happened to their fathers, one is driven to do wrong because he is a father.

peter is forgiving him because his ego got in the way of doing the responsible thing before and he was sorry for it.

No he didn't. I take it you're referring to "It's a story all about a girl line." That was Peter's point of view was at the time. His journey is about growing up, in high school most guys lives revolve around a girl and then they grow up and see life has more important things to offer. Which is why by the end of the movie Peter has realised that it's not all about a girl and that is why he WALKS AWAY FROM HER! Because now his life is more important than that.

That isn't what spidey is about, he's about ****ing up and the eternal road to redemption, a road with no rewards.

the initial monologue removes all guilt for any actions parker has up to uncle ben's death. The same goes for getting screwed over by the ring announcer. Parker didn't mess up because of circumstances, he's not a victim of wrong place/wrong time, he messes up because HE MESSED up.

you give peter parker a scapegoat to behave the way he did initially and you completely hinder his character arc from, powerless geek to super jock to humble guilt ridden hero.

you like him for trying to raise money for a girl, you find his jokes and acrobats funny and sweet, we cheer for him, we miss out how he underminds his aunt and uncle.

raimi made spidey a victim rather than culprit. You do that and you lose the heavy lesson of 'great power, great responsibility'. That's becase most people after watching would still screw over folks for money and allow bad things to happen to those who have wronged them.

and while he does leave mj by the end of the first film, the second film undoes it all and you see he doesn't really believe or understand the choices he's made. To the fact that he renounces Uncle Ben. the guy that he thinks he kills for in part 3 gets face palmed in the second film, unbelievable. Especially since he knows what happened the last time he walked out of a car with uncle ben...

all for a bit of totty...

 

[VenomVsSpidey]

this is the same parker who takes money from is aunt and is happy to empty out her wallet but pretty much lets her be and allows the family home to be loss. instead he goes and dwells his own problems with her, he never asks how she's doing or whether she wants help.

peter wasnt happy taking money from may. Member S-M2? peter didnt want to take it, but she said TAKE IT!! he wasnt happy with taking it.

 

[3dman27]

He can say he will have creative control all he wants, because he still just took it up the ass with Arad. I would rather have heard something about Raimi saying "He gave me idiotic ideas, so I said 'screw you Avi'". But no.

A director should have ALL control with his movies.

quoted for truth

 

[Reikowolf]

NR argument has movie Peter as this selfish human being... which is the basis of the character right?

I mean, he gets powers and uses them for his gain and loses his uncle....

So I'm not sure what you're upset about? other than your exact interpretation of the character isnt being portrayed.

Sure he's trying to redeem himself but he's also flawed as a human which makes the struggle that much harder.

We can't all be moral all of the time.