Justice League Ray Fisher - WB Investigation Updates Thread

[spideyfan77]

This is kinda ridiculous at the moment. WB keeps trying to hype up the snyder cut movie and fisher keeps jumping in and slamming WB the day news comes out.

He is definitely hurting hype for snyder cut doing this. We get info of them filming more scenes and fisher comes out with another tweet.

Not sure if that is what he realizes what is happening since he has been pushing the snyder cut for so long. Just really strange timing how all this started with the snyder cut announcement and he keeps tweeting on days or moments before snyder cut stuff (today, fandome, announcement, etc)

 

[heatvision38]

I'm just saying, calling out industry abuse and then seemingly happily working with someone who assaulted a woman isn't the most morally consistent thing in the world. If you care about accountability in the entertainment industry I would hope it would extend past your own personal situation. Do you really think if there was a recording of Whedon choking a woman and he faced no consequences for it that wouldn't be a weapon in Ray's arsenal?

And, yes, I'm aware.

But again, your logic amounts to: either fight for every cause or don't fight for any cause. You have no idea how he feels about the Ezra situation, the details that he does or doesn't know about it, but you aren't being realistic. This is the battle he has chosen. If you are criticizing him for also not protesting Ezra's involvement in the movie, then you are being unreasonable and unrealistic, and personally, it just comes across to me as you just not wanting to be inconvenienced by someone taking a specific principled stand. Like, rather than at the very least observe and see how this shakes out, you would rather condemn him ("it's hilarious that..." is pretty much a criticism of the man or his actions) because the approach he has taken doesn't conform to your perceived notions of how injustice should be fought (at least in this situation). It comes across as a lazy analysis of the situation at best, imo.

And to be clear, I'm not trying to attack you here, but this attitude you have towards this is one I've seen quite a few others have here and online, and it can also extend to the civil unrest going on in this country as well as politics ("if you didn't fight for this cause, then you have no right to defend that one..." God, how many times have I seen LeBron criticized this way because of the China incident last October) and I just think we can all do better in widening our perspectives and considering the different angles of a thing.

 

[heatvision38]

Well, he did make a comment on Whedon's past with Carpenter and his ex-wife. None of which have anything to do with his personal experience and situation or even with accountability in entertainment for the latter.

Establishing a pattern?

 

[SwordOfMorning]

But again, your logic amounts to: either fight for every cause or don't fight for any cause. You have no idea how he feels about the Ezra situation, the details that he does or doesn't know about it, but you aren't being realistic. This is the battle he has chosen. If you are criticizing him for also not protesting Ezra's involvement in the movie, then you are being unreasonable and unrealistic, and personally, it just comes across to me as you just not wanting to be inconvenienced by someone taking a specific principled stand. Like, rather than at the very least observe and see how this shakes out, you would rather condemn him ("it's hilarious that..." is pretty much a criticism of the man or his actions) because the approach he has taken doesn't conform to your perceived notions of how injustice should be fought (at least in this situation). It comes across as a lazy analysis of the situation at best, imo.

And to be clear, I'm not trying to attack you here, but this attitude you have towards this is one I've seen quite a few others have here and online, and it can also extend to the civil unrest going on in this country as well as politics ("if you didn't fight for this cause, then you have no right to defend that one..." God, how many times have I seen LeBron criticized this way because of the China incident last October) and I just think we can all do better in widening our perspectives and considering different the angles of a thing.

My position is based on a desire for some form of moral consistency against abuse. What Miller did is far, far worse than anything that has been alleged against Johns/Whedon/Berg. If you're going to paint yourself as a hero fighting against the abusive establishment in Hollywood, something Ray is absolutely trying to do, then immediately going and working with a star who recently assaulted a woman doesn't show particularly strong or consistent moral character. I'm not even saying Ray is wrong for wanting a proper investigation into whatever went down on the set of JL and I'm far more grossed out by WB ignoring the assault so it's not like I've any vested interest in defending them.

I'm also not "Inconvenienced" by Ray taking a stand. I'm completely uninterested in basically everything most of these people are involved with. I greatly dislike Geoff Johns and have since long before he became a popular hate magnet and while I'm a huge Joss Whedon fan I've never thought he seemed like a particularly good guy so him being a jerk on JL is hardly a heartbreaking revelation.

Well-written, thoughtful post though. I'll concede that we don't know Ray's private feelings about the Ezra thing or whether or not he's heard some version of it that makes it less horrible.

 

[Da-Scribe]

But he's still publicly implying things while the investigation is going on. Usually that's the time when you refrain from comment.

He still comments in order to gather public support. And his comments don’t reveal actual details as his NDA likely prevents him from revealing specifics of the investigation into the JL reshoots. Otherwise it’d just be WB dunking on him and making it seem like he just got too big for his britches. Plus this story would just disappear without his public effort.

This is kinda ridiculous at the moment. WB keeps trying to hype up the snyder cut movie and fisher keeps jumping in and slamming WB the day news comes out.

He is definitely hurting hype for snyder cut doing this. We get info of them filming more scenes and fisher comes out with another tweet.

Not sure if that is what he realizes what is happening since he has been pushing the snyder cut for so long. Just really strange timing how all this started with the snyder cut announcement and he keeps tweeting on days or moments before snyder cut stuff (today, fandome, announcement, etc)

The article about the Snyder Cut shoots also addressed Ray’s claims and frames him as money hungry. Of course Ray would respond. I can’t imagine Zack would blame him.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Yeah, at this point to Ray’s credit even if you don’t like how he’s weaponizing public outrage at this point he does kinda need to respond in some ways because WB is being more and more aggressive.

 

[kguillou]

Random question, how much do you guys think Fisher got paid for JL? I'm thinking $100-200k or around there, right?

 

[MbJ]

Chris Hemsworth got $150,000 for the first Thor movie (by Ragnarok he made 15 million), so I imagine Ray was somewhere in that ballpark.

 

[heatvision38]

My position is based on a desire for some form of moral consistency against abuse. What Miller did is far, far worse than anything that has been alleged against Johns/Whedon/Berg. If you're going to paint yourself as a hero fighting against the abusive establishment in Hollywood, something Ray is absolutely trying to do, then immediately going and working with a star who recently assaulted a woman doesn't show particularly strong or consistent moral character. I'm not even saying Ray is wrong for wanting a proper investigation into whatever went down on the set of JL and I'm far more grossed out by WB ignoring the assault so it's not like I've any vested interest in defending them.

I'm also not "Inconvenienced" by Ray taking a stand. I'm completely uninterested in basically everything most of these people are involved with. I greatly dislike Geoff Johns and have since long before he became a popular hate magnet and while I'm a huge Joss Whedon fan I've never thought he seemed like a particularly good guy so him being a jerk on JL is hardly a heartbreaking revelation.

Well-written, thoughtful post though. I'll concede that we don't know Ray's private feelings about the Ezra thing or whether or not he's heard some version of it that makes it less horrible.

But you see, you are proving my point that there is a disconnect with what you are saying and what Fisher is fighting for (responding to the line in bold). What Ray is fighting for is the issue of work-related abuse, not all forms of abuse no matter the form they take, otherwise, man, he would never get anything done. What Ezra did was not a work thing, and we also don't know the specifics of it. Let's just say that that whole situation is weird at best and we don't know all the details, making it even weirder.

Let's say, for example, Fisher were to have a scene with Amber Heard in an upcoming movie, I wouldn't expect Fisher to protest working with her. I wouldn't expect Fisher to protest or refuse to work with every single person that has done something bad in their own lives. Specifically, he is fighting for something he and others along with him went through (what the specifics of that are, we don't know yet) which is work-related abuse. That's it. That's the thing. Anything outside of that or not related to those people he is condemning is otherwise irrelevant to this.

 

[Black Narcissus]

This aint necessarily a response to someone in particular, just asking some questions. lol

Thing is, if we want to keep it a buck, then all cast members involved in Flash should just be as horrified by working with Ezra tho, right? Or this only applies to Fisher cause of the accountability thing? Taking Fisher out of the rumor scenes/sounds more like a cameo type role, would folks ask for Ben and Keaton to walk away? Hell, real life Thanos got violent with Ma Kent and cops were called, but we still all watched. I got no beef with seeing flicks with Heard, Depp, or Ezra.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

This aint necessarily a response to someone in particular, just asking some questions. lol

Thing is, if we want to keep it a buck, then all cast members involved in Flash should just be as horrified by working with Ezra tho, right? Or this only applies to Fisher cause of the accountability thing? Taking Fisher out of the rumor scenes/sounds more like a cameo type role, would folks ask for Ben and Keaton to walk away? Hell, real life Thanos got violent with Ma Kent and cops were called, but we still all watched. I got no beef with seeing flicks with Heard, Depp, or Ezra.

I think he should’ve been fired from Flash fairly immediately so, more or less, yeah. I would admire it enormously if the cast refused to work with Ezra and would absolutely support Keaton or Ben walking from Flash. It’s just more galling from Fisher because I do think there is an element of heroic posturing to what he’s doing.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

But you see, you are proving my point that there is a disconnect with what you are saying and what Fisher is fighting for (responding to the line in bold). What Ray is fighting for is the issue of work-related abuse, not all forms of abuse no matter the form they take, otherwise, man, he would never get anything done. What Ezra did was not a work thing, and we also don't know the specifics of it. Let's just say that that whole situation is weird at best and we don't know all the details, making it even weirder.

Let's say, for example, Fisher were to have a scene with Amber Heard in an upcoming movie, I wouldn't expect Fisher to protest working with her. I wouldn't expect Fisher to protest or refuse to work with every single person that has done something bad in their own lives. Specifically, he is fighting for something he and others along with him went through (what the specifics of that are, we don't know yet) which is work-related abuse. That's it. That's the thing. Anything outside of that or not related to those people he is condemning is otherwise irrelevant to this.

I don’t entirely agree but that is an absolutely valid perspective. Thanks for the thoughtful discussion.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Eh, until details emerge or actual allegations get leveled at Ezra I have no opinion. One anonymous source at the bar said it wasn’t a playful thing. That person also said the group was aggressive with Ezra. Now I ain’t saying anyone deserves to get choked. Just saying we really don’t know anything other than what was shot and I don’t find it fair to judge the entire thing based on a short video.

But all that goes back to Ezra needing to address it. Ray got nothing to do with any of that.

 

[emc5466]

This has become a circus.

 

[KalvinEllis]

Grace just dropped this video. REALLY good watch guys, she drops some serious tea on Geoff Johns. Hoo boy its not lookin good for this guy.

Also she makes a point at the end of her video that I very much agree with. Ray has pretty much already won. He has at this point successfully damaged Whedon and Johns’ careers. Johns in particular is looking worse and worse every week. He needs to start thinking about what his endgame is because Warner Bros right now is thinking, “okay, what exactly are you asking us to do?” And i think he needs to be clear on what his demands are out of this whole thing.

No offense but it baffles me how anyone still takes her seriously. She's been saying that Johns is a nightmare to work with for how many years now, so referring to him as a "functional sociopath" is serving tea? That's some cold tea right there. Unlike Ray who has been choosing his words carefully, she can actually get sued for this stuff.

 

[KalvinEllis]

The Hollywood Reporter article doesn't really feel like a hit piece to me. They brought up the money thing but they acknowledge the chaotic atmosphere of the reshoots. Borys Kit is someone I'm more inclined to believe when it comes to money playing some part in this as opposed to whatever Umberto was trying to do.

 

[divan]

No offense but it baffles me how anyone still takes her seriously. She's been saying that Johns is a nightmare to work with for how many years now, so referring to him as a "functional sociopath" is serving tea? That's some cold tea right there. Unlike Ray who has been choosing his words carefully, she can actually get sued for this stuff.

And she should, if you ask me. It doesn't matter which side do you believe here, "scoopers" like her and Umberto (in this case, against Fisher) need to learn to mince their words. Somebody else's fight is not an excuse for you to act like a hooligan.

 

[kguillou]

I havent been following Randolph for that long at all so i’ll take your guy’s word for it. She seemed to have been right about a lot of SC related stuff but it could have just been lucky guesses. I was just kind of shocked to hear what her “sources” from WB were saying about Johns, it seems like his public perception is continually degrading.

 

[KalvinEllis]

Don't get me wrong and someone feel free to correct me if I'm missing something here, but in my experience nothing I've ever seen from Grace in regards to Johns has gone beyond vague innuendos. It's always been about how this guy told her that Johns is a nightmare to work with, or that guy told her he's a horrible showrunner, this person from that department doesn't like him, that person from this department thinks he's a sociopath, the Stargirl crew hates him, noone he's worked with likes him, etc. It's been the same pattern with her, she regurgitates the same talking points over and over again and never gives any concrete specific details about what precisely Johns has said or done that makes him such a deplorable human being.

 

[Aurakles]

I think when it comes to wanting Fisher to give details, we need to remember this isn't entirely his story to tell.
He has repeatedly referred to other witnesses he got to come forward who want to stay anonymous. My feeling is that Fisher was not the victim of the worst of this but a witness to it.
Fisher is respecting their privacy by not giving details to the public.

 

[obredaan]

No offense but it baffles me how anyone still takes her seriously. She's been saying that Johns is a nightmare to work with for how many years now, so referring to him as a "functional sociopath" is serving tea? That's some cold tea right there. Unlike Ray who has been choosing his words carefully, she can actually get sued for this stuff.

She was going after Johns really hard and wonders why WB won't throw him under the bus while ignoring the main issue here...Patty Jenkins is a close friend to Geoff Johns. Patty has praised Johns over the years and that creates an uncomfortable discussion that Grace clearly avoided mentioning. Its interesting how Joss Whedon hasn't been mentioned by Ray Fisher in quite some time. I'm starting to suspect that Whedon was likely the person that Fisher said had called to apologize.

Patty Jenkins Responds To Geoff Johns’ DCEU Departure

Wonder Woman 1984 Director Patty Jenkins Praises Co-Writer Geoff Johns

Wonder Woman Amazonian spinoff pitch sold by Patty Jenkins and Geoff Johns

 

[kguillou]

I think they need to just call Fisher in and talk it out at this point. They hear what he wants and they negotiate. They need to sit down, talk about what happened in 2017 and hash it out and come to an agreement.

And hey maybe talking it out wont work but this back forth between Ray going on social media every week and WB sneakily using news outlets to respond isnt doing anyone any good so they gotta at least try.

 

[obredaan]

I think they need to just call Fisher in and talk it out at this point. They hear what he wants and they negotiate. They need to sit down, talk about what happened in 2017 and hash it out and come to an agreement.

And hey maybe talking it out wont work but this back forth between Ray going on social media every week and WB sneakily using news outlets to respond isnt doing anyone any good so they gotta at least try.

The President of DC films sat down to hash things out with Ray Fisher and Ray immediately jumped on Twitter to complain about it.

Fisher is only creating a diversion from the Snyder Cut at this point. The press tour for the Snyder Cut is going to be a disaster that could end up pushing people away from the film. Unless a crime was committed nobody is going to care about Whedon or Johns being strict or difficult to work with. Time to move on.

 

[kguillou]

Touche. I dunno man. Something definitely happened in June that mustve really pissed Ray off. I’ll bet the farm on it.

Whats hard to pinpoint on all this is what Ray’s hoping to get out of it because he seems very ready willing and able to commit seppuku to his acting career—so he clearly doesnt even care about that at this point. So...this all cant really be about him getting a Cyborg movie or a role in The Flash...can it?

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Don't get me wrong and someone feel free to correct me if I'm missing something here, but in my experience nothing I've ever seen from Grace in regards to Johns has gone beyond vague innuendos. It's always been about how this guy told her that Johns is a nightmare to work with, or that guy told her he's a horrible showrunner, this person from that department doesn't like him, that person from this department thinks he's a sociopath, the Stargirl crew hates him, noone he's worked with likes him, etc. It's been the same pattern with her, she regurgitates the same talking points over and over again and never gives any concrete specific details about what precisely Johns has said or done that makes him such a deplorable human being.

Funny enough, exactly what the group of people who like her most wanna hear! Not defending Johns, I think Johns is a boring hack as a writer and I know nothing about him personally.

She was going after Johns really hard and wonders why WB won't throw him under the bus while ignoring the main issue here...Patty Jenkins is a close friend to Geoff Johns. Patty has praised Johns over the years and that creates an uncomfortable discussion that Grace clearly avoided mentioning. Its interesting how Joss Whedon hasn't been mentioned by Ray Fisher in quite some time. I'm starting to suspect that Whedon was likely the person that Fisher said had called to apologize.

Patty Jenkins Responds To Geoff Johns’ DCEU Departure

Wonder Woman 1984 Director Patty Jenkins Praises Co-Writer Geoff Johns

Wonder Woman Amazonian spinoff pitch sold by Patty Jenkins and Geoff Johns

This. Plus, Johns is a huge player at DC comics, was heavily involved with Wonder Woman and Aquaman which were huge successes and multiple other big projects. The Fisher allegations have huge traction in nerd circles but they're not exactly lighting the normie world on fire, it's serious enough WB has to deal with them but it's hardly shocking they aren't just throwing Johns under a bus.

I do kinda suspect it was Whedon who apologized. Or Berg.