Justice League Ray Fisher - WB Investigation Updates Thread

[SupermanFan]

It makes me laugh the stretch some people go to to defend Fisher.

 

[Micromind]

 

[Predator jp]

Ray thinks WB is anti-black? where did that come from? lol

 

[Schlosser85]

Some of those tweets to Ray do make sense though, if Warner Media didn't make that tweet wouldn't they indeed be accused of the "silence is violence" stuff. They would've looked like hypocrites given the accusations anyway, but what were they supposed to do when all the other studios were tweeting the same thing and we can assume they're no angels either.

If they hadn’t said anything, he’d have attacked them for that too.

 

[obredaan]

If they hadn’t said anything, he’d have attacked them for that too.

The lesson here folks is to never show support for Social Justice or else you'll be accused of being anti-black. Not to mention being labeled SJW or just desperate for good PR. Silence is the way!

 

[Da-Scribe]

I didnt say he can not voice his opinion at all, its Aurakles who brought up who has more rights to voice his opinion.
Fisher attacked the whole company which has probably a lot of POC employees, after the company made a post about supporting racial justice.
My problem is that he tries to vilify and success as we can see, a company with 2500 employees who are not just diverse, but also work on making the industry more diverse etc...because he may or not may have had bad experience with less than a handfull of them..all of which are even gone from the company.

You missed @Aurakles point. It's the same people saying over and over that Ray should move on, yourself included. The irony of that seems lost on you all.

Also, it's such a complete misreading of the situation to suggest Ray is literally attacking every single employee at WarnerMedia. He's not. He's attacking the leadership at WarnerMedia and the overall company structure that has in his opinion enabled racism. Jason Kilar himself has even acknowledged WarnerMedia's problem with racism in a company-wide email from last year based on feedback he'd gotten from his employees. So as much as you all would like to pretend it is, this is not some isolated claim from Ray.

Look, I'm as excited as anyone else for WB's upcoming productions. Black Adam, the new Supes, Blue Beetle, Supergirl, etc. I'm here for it all. But I'm also not gonna turn a blind eye to their blatant attempts to disparage a black man in the media. Or how they fired him for speaking out. I'm not gonna act like Sarnoff didn't try to convince the world that Hamada couldn't possibly have any racial bias because he himself is a POC. I'm not gonna ignore the stories about Geoff Johns or the fact that WarnerMedia had no intention of taking action on Whedon until Ray blew the whistle.

I don't expect WarnerMedia to be perfect at all. It's a tough, ever-evolving road to go down when you commit yourself to something like racial justice. The broader problem for me arises when the PR-speak is so precious and doesn't seem to align with reality. They're a company that has former employees publicly speaking out against them for their recent history of racial bias. And their path forward seems to be saying "We hired minorities so we can't be racist." and then pretending the complaints don't exist. I don't know how anyone can excuse that. But at the same time, I go back and reread some of the defenses here and it becomes clear that the concepts of racial justice and employment law are not well understood.

I dunno, just seems like a lot of knee-jerk reactions here.

 

[heatvision38]

To which the 100% factual proof was where?
Did they release an email or phone call i have missed...or is this based on a THR employee, you know the people who are paid to make up headlines for clicks etc claiming that?

Anyway...Fisher getting more and more insufferable and of course making things about himself...nothing new there.

This must be so hard on you. I'm sorry.

 

[Aurakles]

They decided to show their support for Racial justice, Ray Fisher attacks the whole company who has around 2500 employees of which probably more than 99% support racial justice...based on his interaction with a handfull that may or may not has done him wrong.

And yet somehow WB is the bad guy in this? Thats a weird flex but okay.

Please, i think this forum is smarter than Twitter where the argumentation of how much more rights we have to discuss a situation compared to the actor who activly attacks the studio he worked for...is used.
This is "dont like it dont watch it" level or bad argumentation...i think we all are more mature than that.



And you have proof that they dont do it where?

I wasn't trying to say we don't have the right to talk about it, I was saying Fisher has as much right as us. I was responding to the various posts there have been suggesting Fisher should move on, that WB live in his head etc, and trying to point out the irony in that.
I was trying to counter the idea that people shouldn't speak their minds. Sorry if that didn't come across clearly.

 

[heatvision38]

Isn't performative tweeting kind of Ray Fisher's default state of existence?

This doesn't make sense.

 

[Da-Scribe]

This doesn't make sense.

Like zero relation to the reality of what Ray has been up to over the last year.

 

[Yowza]

For once the law actually worked and we sent a murderer to jail yesterday but somehow that discussion is being dropped for you guessed it...more Ray Fisher/WB drama for little kids.

Except for the young black girl just got shot and killed by government (police) in Ohio.

If this weren't on video the Chauvenator would be set not convicted. The fact things are being made political for this with politicians just marrs things up further in years to come. Just get things done.

 

[Schlosser85]

The lesson here folks is to never show support for Social Justice or else you'll be accused of being anti-black. Not to mention being labeled SJW or just desperate for good PR. Silence is the way!

If public figures and/or corporations say nothing, people attack them for their perceived lack of support. If they do express support, they're just after good PR. It's a no-win scenario.

 

[heatvision38]

I think this is reductive.

 

[Da-Scribe]

If public figures and/or corporations say nothing, people attack them for their perceived lack of support. If they do express support, they're just after good PR. It's a no-win scenario.

This isn't true at all. Consumers just are tired of performative statements. It's not hard for a corporation to acknowledge its own negative track record. To be transparent about its path forward.

 

[Schlosser85]

Except for the young black girl just got shot and killed by government (police) in Ohio.

While apparently trying to stab another girl. Not anywhere near as clear-cut a situation as Chauvin.

 

[Mani-Man]

You missed @Aurakles point. It's the same people saying over and over that Ray should move on, yourself included. The irony of that seems lost on you all.

I havent said he should move on, because i know better than that.
I know he will not stop until all of WB bows to him, no matter if his accusations are true or not.
So no, this does not include me...and i would appreciate it if you wouldnt say things that arent true about me.

Also, it's such a complete misreading of the situation to suggest Ray is literally attacking every single employee at WarnerMedia. He's not. He's attacking the leadership at WarnerMedia and the overall company structure that has in his opinion enabled racism. Jason Kilar himself has even acknowledged WarnerMedia's problem with racism in a company-wide email from last year based on feedback he'd gotten from his employees. So as much as you all would like to pretend it is, this is not some isolated claim from Ray.

He literally @ the whole company in a post that stood for the whole companies policy.
He had enough letters left to state clearly that he means the leadership, yet he didnt.

Nobody said its an isolated case, just that Fishers story leaves a lot of questions open.

Look, I'm as excited as anyone else for WB's upcoming productions. Black Adam, the new Supes, Blue Beetle, Supergirl, etc. I'm here for it all. But I'm also not gonna turn a blind eye to their blatant attempts to disparage a black man in the media. Or how they fired him for speaking out. I'm not gonna act like Sarnoff didn't try to convince the world that Hamada couldn't possibly have any racial bias because he himself is a POC. I'm not gonna ignore the stories about Geoff Johns or the fact that WarnerMedia had no intention of taking action on Whedon until Ray blew the whistle.

See, that is my problem...this is all based on what?
Not on factual proof.
It is based on Accusations Fisher said he can back up, but has yet been able to do so.
He threw everything at the wall hoping it sticks, and when it doesnt...he changes the goalpost.

Who says he was fired for speaking out? Where is the factual proof of that? Documents, phone calls...anything other than the word of a man who changed his story more than once?

Earlier today i asked where the proof is that WB wanted to surpress an THR article, i have yet to see any proof other than claims about it.

Remember how A>E was everything for him and he said he never wants to work for WB because this is bigger than fame and a career? Well we are now 2021 and he is going "I would work with WB if Hamada apologizes to me".
That is not the A>E he keeps promoting.

Or how he changed his story from Hamada definitly interfering to tried to, then back to did, then again back to tried to.

And that is why i have trouble believing anything he says, because he changes his principles based on what he benefits and not based on the greater good he claimed to have in mind.


Look, if people want to believe Fisher, fine.
I get it, the small guy VS the big company, maybe things were really bad or maybe he just misread the situation...my problem is simply that people just decide what to believe instead of being rational about it.
My problem is that people state facts that arent, state that this or that absolutly happened when there is no proof of that.
Maybe i am this careful because i believed way too often in the last few years the so called "victims" in sexual assault, harrassment etc cases where it turned out that those Victims made up the stories.
So maybe im biased on this and want full proof before believing a story.

 

[Aurakles]

In the few years I've been on these forums, I've seen countless occasions of people saying Warner Bros this and WB that. I never took this to mean every employee of the company.
I thought it was the established norm to assume it was simply shorthand for "the decision making executives/ leadership of".

 

[Aurakles]

Once it was questioned whether there had been in fact been any mistreatment during the reshoots, but now it seems most agree there was, and only argue over the extent and nature of it.
There was an initially backlash against Fishers accusing of Whedon, with friends of his saying that they couldn't imagine he would do such a thing.
Since then various people have come forward to support Fishers claims of what happened on set (Momoa, Gadot, Deborah Snyder) and of Whedons past abuse (Buffy/Angel cast).

Fisher spoke out, despite it being against his own interests to do so, and was validated.
That's why I believe trust him over Warner Media (by which I mean the decision making executives/leadership thereof).

 

[Micromind]

Once it was questioned whether there had been in fact been any mistreatment during the reshoots, but now it seems most agree there was, and only argue over the extent and nature of it.
There was an initially backlash against Fishers accusing of Whedon, with friends of his saying that they couldn't imagine he would do such a thing.
Since then various people have come forward to support Fishers claims of what happened on set (Momoa, Gadot, Deborah Snyder) and of Whedons past abuse (Buffy/Angel cast).

Fisher spoke out, despite it being against his own interests to do so, and was validated.
That's why I believe trust him over Warner Media (by which I mean the decision making executives/leadership thereof).

Yeah and the fact that Fisher is jeopardizing his acting career, this is not going to result in any personal gain for him.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I havent said he should move on, because i know better than that.
I know he will not stop until all of WB bows to him, no matter if his accusations are true or not.
So no, this does not include me...and i would appreciate it if you wouldnt say things that arent true about me.

So Hamada should put his pride aside, but not Fisher who got pretty much all he wanted?
He got an investigation going, the people in direct charge arent there anymore...but still it is Hamada who should swallow his pride and apologize for unproven accusations?

Why doesnt Fisher swallow his pride and move on?

This you?

He literally @ the whole company in a post that stood for the whole companies policy.
He had enough letters left to state clearly that he means the leadership, yet he didnt.

Nobody said its an isolated case, just that Fishers story leaves a lot of questions open.

He's been naming the same names and specifying his issues with leadership for almost a year. You really need him to clarify it still? We're all mature enough to infer who he's talking about and understand that he isn't attacking a company's entire roster of tens of thousands of employees.

See, that is my problem...this is all based on what?
Not on factual proof.
It is based on Accusations Fisher said he can back up, but has yet been able to do so.
He threw everything at the wall hoping it sticks, and when it doesnt...he changes the goalpost.

Who says he was fired for speaking out? Where is the factual proof of that? Documents, phone calls...anything other than the word of a man who changed his story more than once?

He said he didn't want to work with Hamada because he felt Hamada enabled abuse. WB then let him go under the guise of a resignation. Ray's tweet was not a resignation, which he said himself. But anyone with common sense that has been responsible for staffing could tell you that. And any employer who gives even half a **** about their employees would have formally investigated the claims against Hamada before re-upping his contract and firing Fisher. But WarnerMedia was more interested in moving on from the whole thing, which they made explicitly clear in the trades.

Earlier today i asked where the proof is that WB wanted to surpress an THR article, i have yet to see any proof other than claims about it.

This is all well and good, but I'm just talking about Ray and his allegations. I've never seen him allege suppression of the THR article, so I won't make any claims one way or the other.

Remember how A>E was everything for him and he said he never wants to work for WB because this is bigger than fame and a career? Well we are now 2021 and he is going "I would work with WB if Hamada apologizes to me".
That is not the A>E he keeps promoting.

Or how he changed his story from Hamada definitly interfering to tried to, then back to did, then again back to tried to.

And that is why i have trouble believing anything he says, because he changes his principles based on what he benefits and not based on the greater good he claimed to have in mind.

Where did he say he'd never work for WB? He said he didn't want to work with Hamada. He then said he'd be willing to see where things go if WB can apologize.

He's also consistently, since first mentioning Hamada, used the language that Hamada "attempted to" or "sought to" (or some variation of that) interfere with the investigation. I have a post in this thread highlighting the various tweets that show that.

So this idea of him shifting the goalposts is demonstrably false.

Look, if people want to believe Fisher, fine.
I get it, the small guy VS the big company, maybe things were really bad or maybe he just misread the situation...my problem is simply that people just decide what to believe instead of being rational about it.
My problem is that people state facts that arent, state that this or that absolutly happened when there is no proof of that.
Maybe i am this careful because i believed way too often in the last few years the so called "victims" in sexual assault, harrassment etc cases where it turned out that those Victims made up the stories.
So maybe im biased on this and want full proof before believing a story.

Are you that careful though? You've suggested that Snyder manipulated Ray into alleging abuse over the JL reshoots. Zero proof. You've claimed that Ray wants everyone at WB to bow to him. Zero proof. You've said 99% of people at WarnerMedia support diversity. Zero proof. You even alleged a POC may have drafted the tweet about George Floyd. And again, zero proof.

So it seems this need for proof only exists when it isn't you making the claims.

 

[Nemeres]

Maybe Warner Media, a company comprised of many folks, should be able to express support for racial justice without having to worry about Ray Fisher's blessing, given that they put out cultural product made by many people, most of them completely unrelated to Ray's booyah/Quasimodo debacle. Maybe Ray's pissy response in all-caps, a clear reference to his personal resentment, is disproportionate to the positive outcome of a murder trial and suggests that he has trouble not making it all about himself. Could be that Ray's abandoned claims about JL changing his skin tone in post suggest he can talk out of his ass sometimes, is happy to promote hearsay and isn't necessarily the sole authority on how to handle racial sensitivity. I think he's hurting his own cause by doing this sloppy a job of speaking truth to power and could do with a dash of constructive criticism from his fanbase.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Nah, performative action deserves to be called out.

 

[kguillou]

I have to agree. Look, I support Ray’s cause wholeheartedly, but I dont think attacking Warner Bros for making a statement about racial injustice yesterday should be lambasted. I guess to Ray he feels theyre being hypocritical but what should have WB said then? I guess one could say just dont say anything at all but it was a nice, harmless statement from warner bros showing that there are people within their organization who are against racial injustice.

Again, I support Ray but I dont know if that was the right way to go about it nor highjacking Andy Muschietti’s Flash announcement. Leave Muschietti and The Flash out of this, let him make his movie and hype it up.

 

[obredaan]

Except for the young black girl just got shot and killed by government (police) in Ohio.

If this weren't on video the Chauvenator would be set not convicted. The fact things are being made political for this with politicians just marrs things up further in years to come. Just get things done.

Yeah I shutter to think how the Floyd case would have resulted without the video. The police report simply said Floyd died of a medical incident with no mention of the physical abuse he suffered. Disgusting.

 

[brandeezy89]

Again, I support Ray but I dont know if that was the right way to go about it nor highjacking Andy Muschietti’s Flash announcement. Leave Muschietti and The Flash out of this, let him make his movie and hype it up.

Yeah, when he did something similar regarding Sasha Calle's announcement/video Andy posted, it rubbed me the wrong way. Here you have an actress who beat out 400+ actresses for the role, was extremely happy to the point of tears and is starring in her first theatrical role just like Ray. It should've been her moment instead of Snyder Cut people in her comments telling her, to tell Andy to hire Ray back. Does he plan on doing this with everything Flash related until the movie releases?