Ridin’ with Biden

If that $600 difference is going to change your life then you have bigger problems to worry about.
You just perfectly made the case for why raising the minimum wage should be part of the relief package.

The $2000 check included the initial $600, that was pretty obvious.
It's March. The notion that these checks are related becomes more absurd by the day. Might as well call it a $3200 check.
 
You just perfectly made the case for why raising the minimum wage should be part of the relief package.


It's March. The notion that these checks are related becomes more absurd by the day. Might as well call it a $3200 check.

I agree. The minimum wage increase should be part of the relief package. Instead, you guys are complaining about one time $2000 vs $1400 check semantics.
 
I agree. The minimum wage increase should be part of the relief package. Instead, you guys are complaining about one time $2000 vs $1400 check semantics.
Then you haven't bene reading my, Lily or moviedoors posts. Because we have been arguing over the minimum wage issue the entire time. I don't think you have to stop at one issue, especially with how badly the US government has handled the pandemic.
 
Then you haven't bene reading my, Lily or moviedoors posts. Because we have been arguing over the minimum wage issue the entire time. I don't think you have to stop at one issue, especially with how badly the US government has handled the pandemic.

No I’ve been reading your posts and didn’t have any problem with them. Those concerns are warranted because they will actually help people who are suffering. Increasing the minimum wage and unemployment benefits will help people who are their most vulnerable. Complaining about the income eligibility dropping from 100k to 80k or the semantics about a $2000 vs $1400 check is petty and does not add anything of value that would help the people who really need it. It’s very easy to act like a keyboard warrior and say “they should do this and they should do that” without understanding what it takes to get this bill passed AT ALL. Half the senate doesn’t even want this bill so, if it takes a few compromises that doesn’t really affect the most vulnerable people then so be it.
 
Wow there's a lot to unpack here!

Yeah, that ain't plenty in my book at all. Especially when he is thinning out the relief package more and more overtime.

The reality of the situation is that the (D) control of the government is shaky at best. "Thinning out" the 1.9 Trillion Dollar relief package appears, on the surface, to be more about making an argument that the correct people (i.e. those with the most need) are getting help first. There's so much to the total package though that I'll freely admit it's hard to keep good track of exactly what is going to who and when.

Also let's give him the COVID vaccine supply and distribution.

To be fair, ANYTHING is more than what the previous admin. apparently had in the pipeline where vaccine supply and distribution is concerned!

- Being in the Paris Climate Agreement means absolutely nothing. It's a non-biding set of goals that mean literally nothing.

I respectfully disagree that it means "literally" nothing. A symbolic gesture is still a gesture AND the PCA always struck me more as a tent-pole to build communication and international policy structure around. You're correct in what I assume is your point that it's not enough, but it's certainly not "absolutely nothing".

- Dropping the "Muslim ban" was hard work? It's a bare minimum thing to do, not that it matters doing a pandemic.

See my above statement about symbols. Also, what else would you have him do exactly? If he left it in place I suppose you could argue that he was "just another Trump" but his removal of an unjust ban is in the "not that it matters" category instead?

- So he hasn't appointed a new postmaster general.

President, not King or God-Emperor of The Imperium. There's a process, they appear to be moving forward within that process to resolve the problem.

Let's look at the other side of the coin.

OK! :)

- He hasn't fixed immigration policy at the border, while giving ICE all the power they want.

This does not appear to be a totally accurate statement...
Biden’s Immigration Plan Would Offer Path to Citizenship For Millions

- Refuses to cancel federal student loan debt.

This one is complex. Federal Student Loan regulation and law is...a labyrinth that David Bowie would be proud of? There are several reasons, at this time, that you can't just wave a magic wand and make it (the debt) vanish. That said, he's on record as being a proponent of cancelling $10,000 of debt, which is what his campaign promise was iirc. Others are pushing for more (50k was the last number I heard) and it may come to pass, but it wasn't his original stated goal.
Honestly, the best long term solution to how student debt is managed in this country is to clean up the system that makes it impossible to understand or control just what a new student is getting into at the outset.

- Has not cut off funding to states abandoning his "mask mandate" allowing the pandemic to spread and probably bring on a 4th wave.

Please tell me that your intention with this statement was NOT that innocent U.S. Citizens in somewhere like say...Texas...should be allowed to freeze to death or die of COVID because a self centered Governor and a Gerrymandered to heck State Congress decided to be "pro-death". Based on your previous posts I'm pretty sure that's not what you meant, but what funding would you cut off that would do anything but alienate the people who need it most right now?

- He has found a way to stick kids back in cages.

Holding unaccompanied minors until they can be reunited with family on this side of the border =/= separating pre-schoolers from their families to deter the parents from seeking asylum.
With no other options currently in place what should the administration do? Let them continue to travel alone through some of the most hostile territory on the planet?
Now, if they're still using this system to deal with the problem in 6-12 months then I'll be happy to give it the hairy eyeball with you, but in the short term getting them out of the desert and giving them some water while you look for their family in-country is not a bad thing.

- He has abandoned the push for the $15 minimum wage.

What legislation is he going to get done on the $15 minimum wage, when according to you, Manchin won't sign off on it in reconciliation? It's the only way to do it...

I don't think he's abandoned it, but I also don't think it's a priority today. I'm disappointed it was dropped from the relief bill, but that was always a long shot anyway, at least in my opinion. It's going to end up being its own thing, and that's not a bad thing actually. Passing a 15$ Federal minimum wage without tying it to something being sold (correctly) as "absolutely vital" can be used to argue for a commitment to the little guy (sincere or not) because:
"hey look, we could have tried to push this through with something that was unquestionably needed, but we made it it's own thing to show you just how much dedication we have to you, the voters."

As always, it's fantastic reading your stuff. I really appreciate getting the perspective of someone from so far outside my own political philosophy and it's good to see people out there actively question gov't policies and practices no matter if I agree with them or not!

Stay safe and keep warm!
 
I certainly think minimum wage should be part of the package. The question is "would the relief bill pass if it is?" For people who say that we should put the screws to Manchin, I agree, but we don't know if Manchin/Sinema will cave. If they don't, do we really want to have the unemployment extension expire? That would make things worse for a LOT of people. There are decisions to be made and we, frankly, don't have enough information to make a rational one.

I would be in favor of taking a risk on minimum wage and other provisions IF we could pull them and not miss the extension if the bill failed. To put people on unemployment in the situation of having their income shut off, even temporarily, is, to me, unconscionable.

When I hear things like "Biden has given up on minimum wage" and statements like this that are so slanted and misleading, I just shut down. Rational conversation doesn't seem possible. If one were to say "Biden has given up on the minimum wage provision as part of the relief bill", I wouldn't have a problem with it. Biden has been clear that he supports the minimum wage provision and has been quite open about saying he didn't think it would make it through the reconciliation process. I think this could have been pushed earlier and given us two bites at the apple before the unemployment extension expire, but that doesn't appear likely now.

I honestly thought they were talking about an additional $1400 and so did some others. Some thought an additional 2K and that's fine too, but don't try to tell me that it was clearly an additional 2K.

Also, when someone says things like how the "US" has handled the pandemic, that is also misleading. TRUMP screwed the pooch (so to speak) and some of the governors did also (not just repubs by the way). Joe Biden has, IMO, handled the pandemic as well as possible and I am not a Biden partisan like some (which is fine). Neither am I out to belittle what he has accomplished in his first 6 weeks in office. The next 2 weeks will be telling. If they can't pass a relief bill, I will be on Biden's ass as much as anyone. Folks, it's only been 6 weeks. If you are going to criticize someone, at least point out what they've done right also. Hell, I even did that for Trump; however little there was to applaud.

WRT to condemning the Democratic "Leadership" for not getting everything, this is a load of S***; plain and simple. WE elect our representatives and when we elect people like Tillis, Collins, Ernst, Daines, etc., WE bear some of that responsibility. Let me give, yet another, boring union example.

I served on and chaired several union bargaining teams. What you get at the bargaining table, like in the legislature, depends on your level of support. I remember a time when, after literally years of negotiating, we finalized a contract and put it out for membership ratification. As part of this process, members of our bargaining team would hold town hall meetings to explain the provisions and answer questions. One time, someone (who was known to not be a big union supporter) challenged the effectiveness of the union and said the contract wasn't good enough. His basic take was "the union should be getting us more and you guys didn't do enough". To this, I asked him where he was when we went on strike to pressure the university to make concessions. I asked him where he was when we held local strategy sessions to plan actions and marches and I asked him who the hell the union was if it wasn't the members. Then I got going.....I told him if he didn't like the contract, he could vote against it and, if the ratification vote failed, I would be back at the table negotiating on his behalf, but that the next contract wouldn't be any better unless he, and people like him, got off their asses and supported our efforts to improve everyone's lives. I told him that the contract would reflect the level of support we got from our membership and his lack of support when we needed him was a big reason we didn't get more.

Same here.....if the Dems had won in NC, Iowa, Montana, Maine, etc., we wouldn't even be having this discussion. We'd have a minimum wage provision in our relief bill and the Manchins and Sinemas would have their political cover. So don't dump everything at the feet of "leadership" whether they be repubs or dems. You get what you get based on the level of support you have and Monday morning, armchair quarterbacking is about as helpful as (as one of my older and crotchety union brothers used to say) t*ts on a bull.
 
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COVID stimulus: $15 minimum wage unlikely to be part of Biden's bill

But that proposal – Plan B, in effect – has been pulled. Senate Democrats shelved it because of the difficulty of shoehorning such a complex piece of legislation in a bill that needs to move quickly through Congress.

"Basically, the clock ran out," Wyden told reporters Monday.

Biden and Democratic leaders want to pass the relief package that extends unemployment benefits before the current benefits expire March 14.
 
I would just put it as them being old. Hell, most of them are grandparents, and didn't even have to worry about their own kid's colleges for nearly 20 years. The geriatric leadership of the part is a problem.
 
I would just put it as them being old. Hell, most of them are grandparents, and didn't even have to worry about their own kid's colleges for nearly 20 years. The geriatric leadership of the part is a problem.
I agree. Maybe there should be age limits, too. :(
 
Regarding student debt relief, it seems like a political catch-22 to me. If he wiped away $50,000 of debt will he do that every year that he is president? People join college every year. Go into debt every year. Why should those already in debt get relief, but not those that go into debt in 2022, 2023, 2024?
 
Regarding student debt relief, it seems like a political catch-22 to me. If he wiped away $50,000 of debt will he do that every year that he is president? People join college every year. Go into debt every year. Why should those already in debt get relief, but not those that go into debt in 2022, 2023, 2024?
Wiping out current student debt should absolutely just be step one. College is still an overpriced scam and we'll end up right back where we were if that aspect of it isn't also addressed.
 
Wiping out current student debt should absolutely just be step one. College is still an overpriced scam and we'll end up right back where we were if that aspect of it isn't also addressed.

Although, I would make it step 2. Fix the system first I think or do them concurrently. I could probably be talked out of this.....but the bigger deal is how do we provide affordable higher ed going forward.
 
I still got about 20 grand of student loans to pay off and the sad thing is I didn't even finish. I work at a pretty well known tech company now so it all worked out but I still have that hanging over me.
 
Although, I would make it step 2. Fix the system first I think or do them concurrently. I could probably be talked out of this.....but the bigger deal is how do we provide affordable higher ed going forward.

With how our society is advancing I think we need to extend public school to include 4 years of optional college. It should be a right just like K-12 is. Let private colleges continue to charge whatever they want to, but community colleges and newly built district public colleges would be funded by the state, local, and federal government.
 
Regarding student debt relief, it seems like a political catch-22 to me. If he wiped away $50,000 of debt will he do that every year that he is president? People join college every year. Go into debt every year. Why should those already in debt get relief, but not those that go into debt in 2022, 2023, 2024?

I think there is also some legitimate concern about the legal precedent it could start. Just how much, and what kind of debt can the executive unilaterally forgive? How many governmental loans to businesses can be forgiven?
 
With how our society is advancing I think we need to extend public school to include 4 years of optional college. It should be a right just like K-12 is. Let private colleges continue to charge whatever they want to, but community colleges and newly built district public colleges would be funded by the state, local, and federal government.
Lookup the California Higher Education Master Plan. There were basic and supplemental educational opportunity grants that paid for your education at a University of California or State University campus except for about $100 per quarter, books and supplies. You could take that out as a loan or take a student job with the campus. In addition, the community college system was established for trade training and as a pathway to a University education if you could maintain a certain GPA.

That system worked until the UC and CSU expenses increased to the extent that these grants couldn't cover them and going to school became a financial burden for students.
 
With how our society is advancing I think we need to extend public school to include 4 years of optional college. It should be a right just like K-12 is. Let private colleges continue to charge whatever they want to, but community colleges and newly built district public colleges would be funded by the state, local, and federal government.
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