The Last Jedi Star Wars: The Last Jedi Hypesters Review Thread [TAG SPOILERS!]

I agree with this.

Interestingly enough, I just read an interview with Hamill who says he had to justify the performance to himself by claiming he played another character named "Jake Skywalker."

"...If Luke had a problem, he would maybe take a year to try and regroup, but if he made a mistake, he would try to right that wrong, so right there, we had a fundamental difference. I almost had to think of Luke as another character. Maybe he's 'Jake Skywalker,' he's not my Luke Skywalker. But I had to do what Rian wanted me to do because it serves Rian's story. " -Mark Hamill

Mark is correct, and whatever Mark had to do to get the performance he did out of himself worked. But, just because he feels that way doesn't make him correct.
 
Mark is correct, and whatever Mark had to do to get the performance he did out of himself worked. But, just because he feels that way doesn't make him correct.

Yes it does. The man's entire professional identity is tied to that character. If anyone should be considered an authority on Luke Skywalker at this point, it's Mark Hamill.
 
Yes it does. The man's entire professional identity is tied to that character. If anyone should be considered an authority on Luke Skywalker at this point, it's Mark Hamill.

That's not how a film works. You cannot let the inmates run the asylum. That is what the director is for. Actors sometimes have good ideas and their input is needed, but in this case, that was not the movie being made. Ultimately it is up to the writers and the creative team to decide where the characters go. Mark Hamill plays Luke, but he doesn't own the character and an actor's vision will be tunneled around their particular role, not the big picture.
 
That's not how a film works. You cannot let the inmates run the asylum. That is what the director is for. Actors sometimes have good ideas and their input is needed, but in this case, that was not the movie being made. Ultimately it is up to the writers and the creative team to decide where the characters go. Mark Hamill plays Luke, but he doesn't own the character and an actor's vision will be tunneled around their particular role, not the big picture.

Mark Hamill may not "own the role" on paper, but Luke Skywalker is more his baby than anyone elses at this point. If there's anyone attached to this mess that doesn't understand the big picture, it's Rian Johnson. He essentially threw out the plot threads he didn't like, and changed other characters to fit his own bastardized vision which doesn't work when it comes to serialized storytelling. There has to be consistency. Abrams is essentially gonna be playing damage control with the next film to get this back on track. Abrams should have done the entire trilogy, we wouldn't be having this discussion if that had happened.
 
Mark Hamill may not "own the role" on paper, but Luke Skywalker is more his baby than anyone elses at this point. If there's anyone attached to this mess that doesn't understand the big picture, it's Rian Johnson. He essentially threw out the plot threads he didn't like, and changed other characters to fit his own bastardized vision which doesn't work when it comes to serialized storytelling. There has to be consistency. Abrams is essentially gonna be playing damage control with the next film to get this back on track. Abrams should have done the entire trilogy, we wouldn't be having this discussion if that had happened.

No, he just would have made The First Order Strikes Back :oldrazz:

He didn't throw out plot threads. He used them, he just took them unexpected routes. That's not the same thing. Scrapping them is doing nothing with them. Johnson DID things with them and those elements were vital to the story and the direction he went.
 
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No, he just would have made The First Order Strikes Back :oldrazz:

He didn't throw out plot threads. He used them, he just took them unexpected routes. That's not the same thing. Scrapping them is doing nothing with them. Johnson DID things with them and those elements were vital to the story and the direction he went.

The First Order Strikes Back would have been a better Star Wars movie in the end. Almost every direction he took these characters in made them substantially worse in the end with the exception of Kylo Ren and outside of the characters that died, these characters essentially end the film right back where they started. It was literally a waste of time.
 
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Yes it does. The man's entire professional identity is tied to that character. If anyone should be considered an authority on Luke Skywalker at this point, it's Mark Hamill.

Absolutely.
And there's a lot of fans that feel it's a betrayal of his character too, hence the backlash that's been in the news. I'm done with Star Wars personally, after this I don't even care what they do with 9. They crapped on my favourite character, they made absolutely awful prequels, they don't deserve fan loyalty at this point. I'll stick with the originals.
 
I feel like the brand has become so big, so massive, that each new entry is going to be explored and analyzed until the most minimal detail. No film/filmmaker/studio can be prepared for that.
 
Agreed. But I feel like this version just felt small. The main story was on Luke’s planet and Leia’s ship. Canto Bight was superfluous. Take it out and the movie still mostly works. There was no reason Holdo couldn’t have told Poe her plan. She knew he was a hot head so risked ruining her strategy but not clueing them in.

Rian basically said “I don’t like any of the setup in TFA so I’ll do my own thing.”
 
I'm starting to realize stuff like that, now that I've seen people talking about it. What I mean is, almost every movie falls apart if you start thinking about stuff like that.
 
Yes it does. The man's entire professional identity is tied to that character. If anyone should be considered an authority on Luke Skywalker at this point, it's Mark Hamill.

If Mark was the "foremost expert on Luke" and we based Luke's journey only on what Hamill knew and expected, Vader wouldn't be his father and Leia wouldn't be his sister. He also, if I remember correctly, would have turned to the Dark Side in ROTJ, which is what Hamill wanted at the time.
 
Mark Hamill understands how to make the character ACT with any, any, lines and direction he is given. He doesn't own the character, but he does own how he behaves around what is given to him.
 
Mark Hamill understands how to make the character ACT with any, any, lines and direction he is given. He doesn't own the character, but he does own how he behaves around what is given to him.

Nailed it.

It sucks that Hamill is bittersweet at best on this portrayal of Luke as it's the best work of his career, and will probably always be so. I don't see or feel one ounce of the trepidation of Mark Hamill the actor within Luke Skywalker the character. It's beautiful work.
 
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Hamill's a class act. Even though he didn't agree with the direction they took his character , he still put in a great performance as he always does.

He didn't sleepwalk through it .

Given all the mean spirited-ness of fanboys both sides of this debate over this film, he's done his best to promote the film and push it even though it may have not been the way he would have like it to play out.

Hopefully he'll be more pleased with his role in the next one
 
Yikes.

I liked a few things here and there but it was mostly just horrible.

Not sure why I should bother getting invested in a new character like Rey. Apparently some "edgy" writer will decide to make her into a bitter old woman who works at a fast food place in 30 years.

Feels like Alien 3 where I wondered why I was happy at the end of Aliens when Newt and Hicks made it out alive. Some writer decided they didn't matter any more.

Also feels like I felt when I saw what Larry McMurtry did to the Gus and Call characters in his sequel novels. He somehow got offended that the fans thought they were heroic and awesome and set about making them into buffoons and idiots in the sequels.

Call actually ended up an amputee cripple who sits in a shed and sharpens knives for a living. Sure reminds me a lot of how Luke was in this movie.
 
No scary level of hate like some lol, but definitely think it was needing some work. I liked Finn a lot but he could have been cut out with Rose and it would have been fine with role that was created. eh
 
I think people should at least play fair and admit that if they weren't happy with the direction Luke took, some of the blame should go to Force Awakens too.

That movie set up him in exile. That movie set up him blaming himself for Ben Solo's turn and the loss of his Jedi school. That movie illustrates with its final shots that Luke isn't exactly happy to be found. They could have easily had him say something like "At last..." or something if JJ wanted to set him up as being immediately ready to mentor another student and right some wrongs. But that is not the direction he went.

I understand having a problem with how it was executed in this film, but I feel like even Hamill himself seems to be underplaying how this was all tee'd up in TFA. He says "maybe he'd take a year to regroup"...uh nope, Ben Solo's fall happened around 5 years before TFA. Luke has been missing for some time at the start of TFA and has played no part in the First Order/Resistance conflict.

Sure, I guess some people may have interpreted "those who knew him best think went off to find the first Jedi temple" thing as "he went off to become an even bigger badass and will be ready when the time is right"...but come on. Any storyteller worth their salt that sees how things were setup in TFA would know that's far too easy a place for both Luke and Rey to be in at the start of the film and misses a huge opportunity for rich drama and a satisfying redemption arc for Luke. I think Rian Johnson just seized on what was obvious. And I don't think he's the only filmmaker out there who would've made that choice. Far from it.

Even Lucas himself pitched Luke being in exile and disillusioned with the Jedi in 2013. It's in the Art of TLJ book. If people want to point to Hamill as an authority on what Luke would do, you have to be at least willing to admit that the man who created the character may have had a different opinion.

I can understand people having an issue with the execution, and that's always fair and applies to any film. I just think it's disingenuous to act like this film conjured up this version of Luke out of thin air, when the seeds were planted in TFA.
 
Watched it and enjoyed it. Pretty fun movie.

Love what they did with Snoke and Kylo Ren. Best character arc so far. **** Snoke, Kylo is way more interesting. Couldn't give two ****s about Snoke's backstory.

Still, I feel like the whole movie was building towards an obvious conclusion (the Jedi must end, "let the past die", etc) but they chose to ignore all of that with Luke's speech and Rey... kinda ruined the final act for me.

Whatever though, still a good movie. Liked it better than TFA.
 
I think people should at least play fair and admit that if they weren't happy with the direction Luke took, some of the blame should go to Force Awakens too.

That movie set up him in exile. That movie set up him blaming himself for Ben Solo's turn and the loss of his Jedi school. That movie illustrates with its final shots that Luke isn't exactly happy to be found. They could have easily had him say something like "At last..." or something if JJ wanted to set him up as being immediately ready to mentor another student and right some wrongs. But that is not the direction he went.

I understand having a problem with how it was executed in this film, but I feel like even Hamill himself seems to be underplaying how this was all tee'd up in TFA. He says "maybe he'd take a year to regroup"...uh nope, Ben Solo's fall happened around 5 years before TFA. Luke has been missing for some time at the start of TFA and has played no part in the First Order/Resistance conflict.

Sure, I guess some people may have interpreted "those who knew him best think went off to find the first Jedi temple" thing as "he went off to become an even bigger badass and will be ready when the time is right"...but come on. Any storyteller worth their salt that sees how things were setup in TFA would know that's far too easy a place for both Luke and Rey to be in at the start of the film and misses a huge opportunity for rich drama and a satisfying redemption arc for Luke. I think Rian Johnson just seized on what was obvious. And I don't think he's the only filmmaker out there who would've made that choice. Far from it.

Even Lucas himself pitched Luke being in exile and disillusioned with the Jedi in 2013. It's in the Art of TLJ book. If people want to point to Hamill as an authority on what Luke would do, you have to be at least willing to admit that the man who created the character may have had a different opinion.

I can understand people having an issue with the execution, and that's always fair and applies to any film. I just think it's disingenuous to act like this film conjured up this version of Luke out of thin air, when the seeds were planted in TFA.
Two points, and at least one to be positive about, since I need to make sure when I say this is a good-not-great movie, I don't just complain the entire time...

I think the biggest conceptual argument I can actually mount against Rian Johnson's take on Luke and his exile is a matter of extent rather than direction; that the only real direction for Luke that would adequately explain his exile and give the character dramatic weight is for him to be broken by failure and doubt the Jedi Order, but that the total disenfranchisement and the conviction that he must do nothing is a bit too much. On a fundamental level, Luke receding from the Galaxy after failing to prevent his nephew from going Vader makes perfect sense, and the film does milk the idea for all the dramatic potential it can. It's just that there is a bit of a leap to make that Luke won't be compelled to some kind of action by the events of the last film, or be so loathing of the Jedi; him throwing the lightsaber over his shoulder, for instance, doesn't quite compute, and only really works as a humorous artistic statement.

It may have worked better to have Luke convinced that something needs to be done, but wracked by self-doubt and caution about the Jedi, still a mess who's convinced he failed in every way, but maybe trying to see if he can reform Jedi teachings to keep Rey safe from the dark-side and being terrified of greater failure. Or maybe showing the audience what Luke saw in Ben's mind in the hut, or doing that thing I keep hoping happens, and we learn that Snoke was gaslighting Ben with visions and may have done the same thing to Luke.

If I can bring up one thing I do love, it's the use of that mystery between Ben and Luke as the heart of the Force plot. Going Rashomon with the backstory gave both Luke and Ben good POV moments.
 
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I have been on this Star Wars ride from the word go. I was a fan when GL said there would never be more Star Wars movies. I was a fan when the prequels were announced. I was a fan when the Star Wars Special Edition was announced. I was a fan when it was announced that all three original movies would get the Special Edition treatment. I was a fan when all three prequels were released. I was a fan when when GL sold LFL to Disney. I have been a fan for everything released under the Disney umbrella.

I was in the third grade when Return of the Jedi came out. I am 43 years old now. I waited 34 years to see Luke Skywalker kick some ass. I am a sensible adult. I know nobody owes me anything. I realize these are just movies. I get it. But 34 years, man! 34 years and all I get is Luke Skywalker laying down in half his scenes. 34 years and Luke Skywalker doesn't actually ignite a lightsaber? I repeat, 34 years - and not only does Luke Skywalker not leave an island - but he doesn't even actually ignite a lightsaber!

Isolated, TLJ is pretty good movie. In the bigger picture, I am so disappointed. How do you not have Luke Skywalker levitate his X-Wing out of the ocean and take off to Crait? How do you not have Jedi Master Luke Skywalker kick ass and take out some Guerrilla Walkers? Man, I was so let down. I have no doubt that Rian Johnson is going to absolutely kill it with his new trilogy. He will do great with original characters. But man, for what I have been waiting for, he dropped the ball big time.
 
Saw the movie 3 times and it holds up for me :up:

Solidly 4th best Star Wars film overall, but easily best since the OT. I don't think it is close either.
 
I think people should at least play fair and admit that if they weren't happy with the direction Luke took, some of the blame should go to Force Awakens too.

That's been confusing for me, too. People are complaining that the OT heroes all "failed" and acting like it's Rian's fault. It was JJ and his nostalgia-pandering that forced us into a status quo that amounted to none of the characters having progressed at all since the events of ROTJ 30 years before.
 
It isn't JJ's fault. Luke has been in exile, but at the end of The Force Awakens that's pretty much all we know. Rian could've told anything he wanted.
 
It isn't JJ's fault. Luke has been in exile, but at the end of The Force Awakens that's pretty much all we know. Rian could've told anything he wanted.

Basically. Johnson told the story he wanted to tell. Its Johnson's baby.
 

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