The Last Jedi Star Wars: The Last Jedi Hypesters Review Thread [TAG SPOILERS!]

[godisawesome]

That's been confusing for me, too. People are complaining that the OT heroes all "failed" and acting like it's Rian's fault. It was JJ and his nostalgia-pandering that forced us into a status quo that amounted to none of the characters having progressed at all since the events of ROTJ 30 years before.

For me, some of the "OT heroes failed" issue stems from Rian Johnson making conceptual decisions that I feel JJ handled with more nuance. Like, when I watched TFA, I always presumed from what was on screen (but especially from ancillary material) that the Empire had to evolve into the First Order, with a corresponding different set of strengths and weaknesses, like a focus on quality over quantity. That while they were trying to undo the end of the Galactic Civil War, they'd been forced to raise their game to compensate for damages the OT had inflicted upon them. There is at least a tangible impact the heroes had on their opponents that way.

I was also hoping for a different set up to the new Galactic conflict to again show an impact from the heroes. I had fun speculating that the natural fallout of both the destruction of the Hosnian System and Starkiller Base would lead to a fascinating mismatch: that the angered Republic systems, which had plenty of reason to reject the First Order even before being sneak attacked, would have more people and maybe more Starfighters, but the First Order would have more capital ships and a ready military. So we'd have to see a race between the First Order trying to intelligently maximize its initial advantages and bleed their opponent dry while the Resistance/Republic would have to get over the learning curve and attain resources to match the First Order.

I know that's an example of being a fanboy with an overactive imagination, but I do feel that Johnson's depiction was either overly cynical or lazy.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I really wish this film didnt place immediately after TFA. Everything happening within a week is just seems to short. I need some decent passage of time

 

[Mysteryman]

I really wish this film didnt place immediately after TFA. Everything happening within a week is just seems to short. I need some decent passage of time

The story might be a bit different, But it wouldn't necessarily be a better film.

 

[Aximili86]

And again, Captain, hermit/exile Luke and a "neo-Empire" was all straight from George. Back before Abrams or even Kasdan came aboard.

It all evolved over the pre-production of TFA, but the "status quo" stuff, the big picture mechanics of the ST, are straight-up Lucas notes. Arndt and Hidalgo have said as much. Female scavenger on a desert planet around the same age Luke was in ANH, a resurgence of the Empire, a "Jedi Killer" (who became Kylo/Ben over time), sulking despondent Luke, even an ultra-early version of Snoke (might have been even earlier than the "snake form" guy, we don't have details). Pre-dates J.J., sure as hell pre-dates Rian.

 

[Persona]

By golly, a Star Wars movie with actual thematic resonance! Like TFA, this movie has a lot of problems in the plot department, and while it has more vision than TFA, it almost has too much because Rian needed to edit a couple hundred of his little ideas out and make a 2 hr movie really focused on telling its story well and with precision. This movie is a mess because Rian is trying to do so much with it, thematically and also trying to give all these characters things to do (while clearly not knowing what to do with some of them).

I could echo a lot of the comments made in here, both positive and negative, but I definitely side with the crowd who liked it. And I like how it handled Luke. And Snoke. And the question of Rey's parentage. Because it is approaching all of these things from a thematic view, one that sees weakness and hubris in heroes, the importance of letting go of the past even as one must learn from failure, the idea that no one is actually a chosen one but everyone plays a part, for good or ill, in the balance of the universe. That it doesn't matter where you came from, it matters what your choices are. This is the wisest Star Wars film since Yoda was droppin' knowledge in ESB, and it has some of the greatest confluent moments of theme with performance with imagery since the throne room scene in RotJ. It's a shame about the bloat, the convoluted plotting, some of the off-putting pacing and tonal decisions because I think beneath all that is the core of a truly great film. The Luke/Rey/Kylo storyline is pure gold. And so many indelible scenes. The fight with lightsabers, y'all know what I am talking about... didn't think we'd get an action sequence that striking and lyrical in its imagery (while also perfect and inventive in its choreography) in this new trilogy. Nothing prepared me for the levels of awesome in that scene. None of the other setpieces really worked for me much better than the ones in TFA, but that, that setpiece combined drama and tension and action and stunning visual design and choreography into something really artful.

I love that this film pushes Star Wars past the point of being the Skywalker saga, and lets it be about all of us. It tells us that we don't have to be heirs to greatness. It tells us if we have hope in our hearts, love in our actions, and connectedness with everyone and everything around us... then no matter how much the Darkness is winning, we can't really lose. No matter how dire the situation or even inevitable the doom... no one's ever really gone. A double sunset and a quiet fade. Pain finally left behind. Peace. And the ones we inspired, walking on ahead of us to carry the light. Let the past die, even as you cherish it. For all its flaws, The Last Jedi did something that I wasn't sure Star Wars could still do.

It spoke to me.

 

[spiderman2]

I just got back from seeing this a 2nd time and loved it even more I give it a 9/10. It went from being my 4th favorite star wars to my 3erd favorite. The first half still felt slow but not has slow has the first time and I still wish that Rey and fin had more screen time together but the movie just has to many good/great moments to not say it is a great movie. The wait for the next movie is going to be killer like always.

 

[rashad]

6/10. And I'm being generous.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

By golly, a Star Wars movie with actual thematic resonance! Like TFA, this movie has a lot of problems in the plot department, and while it has more vision than TFA, it almost has too much because Rian needed to edit a couple hundred of his little ideas out and make a 2 hr movie really focused on telling its story well and with precision. This movie is a mess because Rian is trying to do so much with it, thematically and also trying to give all these characters things to do (while clearly not knowing what to do with some of them).

I could echo a lot of the comments made in here, both positive and negative, but I definitely side with the crowd who liked it. And I like how it handled Luke. And Snoke. And the question of Rey's parentage. Because it is approaching all of these things from a thematic view, one that sees weakness and hubris in heroes, the importance of letting go of the past even as one must learn from failure, the idea that no one is actually a chosen one but everyone plays a part, for good or ill, in the balance of the universe. That it doesn't matter where you came from, it matters what your choices are. This is the wisest Star Wars film since Yoda was droppin' knowledge in ESB, and it has some of the greatest confluent moments of theme with performance with imagery since the throne room scene in RotJ. It's a shame about the bloat, the convoluted plotting, some of the off-putting pacing and tonal decisions because I think beneath all that is the core of a truly great film. The Luke/Rey/Kylo storyline is pure gold. And so many indelible scenes. The fight with lightsabers, y'all know what I am talking about... didn't think we'd get an action sequence that striking and lyrical in its imagery (while also perfect and inventive in its choreography) in this new trilogy. Nothing prepared me for the levels of awesome in that scene. None of the other setpieces really worked for me much better than the ones in TFA, but that, that setpiece combined drama and tension and action and stunning visual design and choreography into something really artful.

I love that this film pushes Star Wars past the point of being the Skywalker saga, and lets it be about all of us. It tells us that we don't have to be heirs to greatness. It tells us if we have hope in our hearts, love in our actions, and connectedness with everyone and everything around us... then no matter how much the Darkness is winning, we can't really lose. No matter how dire the situation or even inevitable the doom... no one's ever really gone. A double sunset and a quiet fade. Pain finally left behind. Peace. And the ones we inspired, walking on ahead of us to carry the light. Let the past die, even as you cherish it. For all its flaws, The Last Jedi did something that I wasn't sure Star Wars could still do.

It spoke to me.

 

[Aximili86]

Yeah, well said man.

 

[Hypestyle]

My general reactions: (major spoilers)
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Spoiler

Luke: I suppose it was kind of expected that he'd end up being a reluctant teacher to Rey. I wanted to see a lot more teaching sequences, though, seems like there wasn't that much, compared to Luke's experiences with Ben Kenobi and Yoda.
I didn't anticipate that Luke was doing a big fakeout in the climax. It was intriguing, for sure. I didn't know that Jedi illusion casting was that deep; in looking back at what happened, I'm surprised that droids (Threepio) were fooled by this as well, though I suppose Luke's wink was a semi-giveaway that something else was at work. For this to be Luke's "final" (in body) appearance, ah well. I would have appreciated him being portrayed in the super-acrobatic way that CGI and stunts allow nowadays, but I guess it wasn't meant to be.

Leia: At last, we got to see Leia exhibit some Jedi powers besides the telepathic bond with Luke. I was glad to see her do a lot more plot-wise, though I was shocked to see her taken out of the story early on.

Finn: This film kind of continues Finn's arc of being an amiable bumbler, to me. I don't know if the intent is to continue to portray him as an everyman who is kind of overwhelmed by the circumstances around him, or.. something else? Heh. I think the exchange with Rose could have been handled in another way rather than him getting tasered, lol. Ah, well. With the fight against Captain Phasma, I wish that it had lasted longer and ended in a more "substantive" way for me. The angle of him falling and landing on a floating skiff then sneak-bashing Phasma, eh.. lol.. I was wanting Finn to have a more "traditional" victory against the bad guys. (On a side note, Phasma has kind of become Boba Fett to me, where the visual image is promoted as this big deal character but on-screen, doesn't really get to do a heck of a lot). I get that this is supposed to mark Finn's final choice to really "join" the Rebellion, but then his near-death experience against the Empire's super-cannon stumbles into the "noble self-sacrificing black guy" trope; at least now he's at least portrayed as having made baby steps into having a relationship with a woman (of color) who is not Rey. Hopefully the writer(s) will have a platonic bond between Finn and Rey and deepen the relationship with Rose.

Poe: I enjoyed Poe's general portrayal, I don't think you've had this kind of tension in previous films regarding the policies and agendas of members of the rebellion. It was kind of Star Trek-ish in the past were there was a general lack of conflict. So this was a nice turn of events.

Rey: I was surprised by the depth of the cross-galactic telepathy, and how Rey was able to see landscapes and not just the "mind" of the person she's in contact with. I'm still perplexed at what she was supposed to have seen in the cave (an update of Luke's cave wandering in Empire?).

Kylo: Whoo-boy, wow. I'm glad he wasn't enough of a maniac to fire on his mother, but clearly he was still enough of a maniac to go through with the assaults on the rebel groups in general. I still don't know what the Knights of Ren are supposedly all about, anyway-- there's no backstory on just how Ben was able to be sought out by Snoke and how he was gradually corrupted. The "reveal" on his fateful confrontation with Luke was an interesting twist. I enjoyed the fight sequence against the Crimson guards.

DJ: I'm not sure what Benicio's thief/hacker added besides the eventual betrayal. But I won't complain about his presence. The way that he "conveniently" was able to escape the jail was kind of a subtle nod that everything about this guy wasn't on the up and up.

I'm still wondering where all this is going, in a way. Emperor Snoke is dead, and so I guess Kylo has declared himself the supreme leader of the New Order. The rebellion is reduced to whoever fits on the Falcon ship, now, so what systems can they run to? How widespread is the New Order Empire this time around? What would it really take to remove all their elements and restore a new republic? Seems like this would take way more than one more movie.

Chewie: I liked his presence in the film but I wanted to be more of it. I wanted to see him have some extended conversations (growling aside) with Luke and hopefully Leia, about Han. I wasn't overly interested in seeing him as the fuzzy sidekick character anymore. I'd like the next film to have him in more of an out-front leader role. Why not? He's already been through any number of political/war conflicts already. What is the Wookie culture response to the New Order?

Still missing:
Lando- we need to see his take on Han's passing, as well as Luke and whatever Leia's post-Carrie Fisher fate is. Did he become a family man? Did he become an administrator again? Is he in exile post-New Order?

Sex: do people still, you know, hook up, in this universe?

Religion: Is the Jedi religion the only one out there? Is that the only path to have certain metahuman powers? What about other belief systems and technological-biological connections that are considered a part of worship or rituals?

 

[Nemeres]

My letter to Self with what I'd have liked to read ahead of watching it: Being into the film will be easy from moment one. The heavy plot won't lose you, ever. You'll think important beats are glossed over with little gravitas only once. And you'll finish loving it, in a way that you haven't with big-budget, geek-friendly joints in years.

Spoiler

Big fan of what they did with Snoke here. Ever since TFA I kept seeing him built up through theories and speculation, and I just couldn't help simply. Not. Caring. Any possible answer as to where he came from, or what connections he had to past characters, could've only been, for me, either brand new information or a callback to off-screen mythology that I wasn't familiar with. So he was never as interesting as fandom seemed to want to make him. TLJ agreed and based his importance 100% entirely on what he meant for Kylo's arc and nothing more. The twist, I enjoyed to no end. When Kylo kills him and starts fighting by Rey's side, I initially figured, "This is it. This is the moment where my expectations go down... because we've all seen this before, and this just too easy and absolutely nothing new." I started feeling that pressure of going along with an unearned emotional beat that you get. But then Kylo himself tells you: it's about being more, in his mind, than Vader ever was. He was thinking two steps ahead. And the genuine surprise worked wonders on me. That, and how much sense it made. The same goes for Rey's parents. Never thought it should be that important, film doesn't think so either. For now, at least.

All things Luke: I understand Hamill's discomfort. But in a story built on chapters, this is simply a new one. And in a saga famously built on the "I am your father" moment, which is the shattering of the previous notions around a certain character -- seeing that decision come out of Luke is as scary, and as uncomfortable, but not necessarily out of place. It serves the story. And it is addressed. And the toll is heavy, and never eluded.

Porgs: funny. Rose: badass, endearing. Laura Dern's character: exactly what you want, without knowing it, out of a "mystery" character. When Finn and Rose kiss, aside from the joy of the character dynamics, I thought of the dopes who see the diversity-based casting as a cheap PC move... and I smiled.

The film's grip actually gets tighter after its second half instead of less, as is usually the case. During the third act I was still all in. There's a clarity of purpose, and of story, and of themes, that other other genre directors should be jealous of. You just can't buy the that sense of clean, fluid, well-lubricated narrative momentum that guys like Zack Snyder consistently seem to lack. Kudos to Rian Johnson for making me walk out of a long, buttock-torture film truly looking forward to seeing it again.

My main takeaway here is 1) The villains. The work done on them, how invested I've become, and how fun it is to await their going down. And 2) The heroes who'll be doing it. The fact that they're this easy to invest in. And how sweaty and suffered-over their struggle feels. It's what I want out of my Star Wars, and here, I got it.

 

[Dugath]

I am not one of those super fans of Star wars. I watch the movies because they are entertaining. As a kid did I have the toys, yes. As an adult do I have a light saber and dress up, no. They are fun to watch and that's it.

Now that it is established my relationship with Star Wars..

This was a bad movie.

Lets get my biggest gripe out of the way.

Spoiler

Their ships are smaller/lighter and faster.. what? In space? Really??
Being smaller, lighter would have no relevance in space.
This thing about running out of fuel is eye roll worthy as well. Ships of that size would not be using liquid fuel.

But ok, lets just say that all that is ok, your telling me the First Order couldn't Hyperspace a ship or two in front of the Resistance ?

Other gripes..
The editing was all over the place, was just plain bad, bad, bad.
The pacing was...yes bad.
Luke being a jerky, cry baby

Spoiler

who thought about murdering someone in their sleep.

The very bad CGI.

I am surprised Disney put out a movie this bad.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

For those interested my podcast has a follow up episode to our TLJ Review. In this latest episode we've brought a panel of SW fans to the show to discuss the fan fallout of TLJ.

http://www.tobecontinuedafanboypodcast.com/blog/

 

[TheVileOne]

For those interested my podcast has a follow up episode to our TLJ Review. In this latest episode we've brought a panel of SW fans to the show to discuss the fan fallout of TLJ.

http://www.tobecontinuedafanboypodcast.com/blog/

I enjoyed the first one Krypton, thanks. Will check this one out.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I enjoyed the first one Krypton, thanks. Will check this one out.

Thanks for the listen.

Anything of the first review that sticks out to you? Things you agreed or disagreed with?

 

[TheVileOne]

Thanks for the listen.

Anything of the first review that sticks out to you? Things you agreed or disagreed with?

I enjoyed the group panel discussion. It was a nice lively debate. Nothing I would say I massively disagreed with either, other than I think the mention of Rey/Poe meeting in the movie. I recall that was a brief talking point in the last one.

I know that scene is in the novelization, but do novelizations even count as canon? Typically, novelizations will have scenes or items that aren't really in the final theatrical cut of a movie. But it is a novelization and not necessarily a prequel or companion novel y'know? But not sure what the strict rules are there.

I thought putting the Poe/Rey meeting in Last Jedi was awkward because I too read about it in the novelization, and I think you can just extrapolate the two meeting before. But whatever.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I enjoyed the group panel discussion. It was a nice lively debate. Nothing I would say I massively disagreed with either, other than I think the mention of Rey/Poe meeting in the movie. I recall that was a brief talking point in the last one.

I know that scene is in the novelization, but do novelizations even count as canon? Typically, novelizations will have scenes or items that aren't really in the final theatrical cut of a movie.

I thought putting the Poe/Rey meeting in Last Jedi was awkward because I too read about it in the novelization, and I think you can just extrapolate the two meeting before. But whatever.

I think the LucasFilm take is essentially as long as the ancillary product doesn't conflict then it's fine, but if the comic or book or animated product contradicts the film, go with the film as the final word.

 

[spiderman2]

For those interested my podcast has a follow up episode to our TLJ Review. In this latest episode we've brought a panel of SW fans to the show to discuss the fan fallout of TLJ.

http://www.tobecontinuedafanboypodcast.com/blog/

I watched the first one and thought it was interesting don't remember the details that you said in that one but I know it was interesting and there was a part that was pretty fun. I also find it funny how people complain about the drop bombs stuff has I think that is like the biggest nickpick you can come up with. I am like who caris about it something is realistic or not in star wars. Watching this now. Interesting to hear what people say about Snoke has I do wish we had a back story about him or at least like how he got Kylo Ren to join him.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I have been actually avoiding news about this film pretty much all along to try and see it with pretty much a fresh mindset. I knew that critics loved and fans were upset, but that's about it. I didn't even know it wasn't directed by JJ Abrams until right before it came out to give an idea of how little I knew about it.

And I really enjoyed it and thought it was a considerable improvement over TFA, although I still prefer Rogue One. Most of my big complaints about TFA, with how safe and familiar everything felt (I really mainly just liked the Rey/Han/Kylo stuff) is dealt with here.

I love how it subverts the typical Star Wars tropes.

Spoiler

-Snoke's Palpatine-like master plans backfires horribly.
-Luke DOESN'T go out like Ben Kenobi, which surprised the hell out of me.
-The new replacement charming rogue, Benicio Del Solo, really does care only about money and saving his own skin.
-Poe's cowboy tendencies needlessly getting people killed and result in him being untrusted by the top brass and getting demoted.
-Finn's one shot in a million plan to take down Snoke's ship fails miserably.
-Rey's parents are just some nobodies that never accomplished anything or were special in any way.
-Kylo Ren isn't redeemed by killing his puppetmaster, but just takes control for himself.

I loved that. I also had a smile on my face when one of my biggest questions ("How does Luke manage to sustain himself on a small barren rock surrounded by presumably salt water?") is given an answer. I loved the ending to this movie.

There are some pacing issues and some humor that doesn't really work, so I'm not going to give this film a perfect score or anything. I really don't like the New Order outside of Kylo and Snoke (who is much better in this film than he was last time). They are just so over-the-top in their sneering cartoon evilness. General Hux might as well have a mustache to twirl. The officers from the OT like Piett, Veers, and Ozzel or Krennic from Rogue One were far better than these guys. You can do slimy military officer without going as completely over-the-top as in both this film and TFA. The Casino planet sequence didn't do much for me and felt more like something out of a Guardians of the Galaxy film. I don't think it tonally fit the rest of the film, especially with the characters being a strict clock by that point in the story. Adam Driver, Daisy Ridley, and Mark Hamill steal the film from an acting standpoint. Hamill in particular is a standout, and I find it interesting that I now read about how he was unhappy when this is probably the best non-voice over performance of his career. Oscar Isaac and Andy Serkis are also better than in the last film. But like most Star Wars movies, I think it is rather poor in general.

Overall, I'd give it an 8/10. The positives far outweigh the negatives, and it does a lot more to stand on its own two feet and set things up for the future than the rather paint-by-numbers TFA. It really makes me want to see more Star Wars films from Rian Johnson. I'm honestly a little concerned now that I see he isn't doing Episode IX.

 

[Doug_Moore]

It was like The Phantom Menace again. You walked in with great expectations and left feeling disappointed.

 

[Elayis]

It was like The Phantom Menace again. You walked in with great expectations and left feeling disappointed.

Having just watched the prequels again for the first time in years, I can assure this is not the case. Whatever disappointments some fans may have withe certain story or character decisions Johnson made, TLJ is without a doubt a well written and directed movie, with great performances from the actors.

The prequels, on the other hand, are an abject failure in terms of the writing and directing. The broad stokes of the plots are fine, but Lucas doesn't have much skill in writing dialogue, getting the best performances out of his actors, how to place the camera for the best shots possible or even something basic like when it's best to use practical locations and props and when it to do it in CGI.

The hyperbole surrounding The Last Jedi is truly astonishing.

 

[MaceB]

It was like The Phantom Menace again. You walked in with great expectations and left feeling disappointed.

There is such a thing as overblown expectations. The key is to expect nothing. If you were expecting to walk back into the theater and the magic would hit you like it did as a kid... then you were expecting too much. In most cases, overly rosey expectations lead to bad experience in the theaters. Go in with no check boxes to fill. You'll probably end up happier. Easier said than done, I know.

 

[The Ironstar]

What's the name of this song at the beginning of this program?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY8ucmcckgg

 

[Frodo]

There is such a thing as overblown expectations. The key is to expect nothing. If you were expecting to walk back into the theater and the magic would hit you like it did as a kid... then you were expecting too much. In most cases, overly rosey expectations lead to bad experience in the theaters. Go in with no check boxes to fill. You'll probably end up happier. Easier said than done, I know.

That's true, though you can also walk into a theater so hyped and pumped that you come out loving the film on the first viewing only for the opinion to lessen after seeing the film. I've seen this happen more often than the opposite.

In reality , that's actually happened with the last few SW films. Ign did a video on this,and pointed out that TPM was actually well received by critcs and fans when it was first released in 1999 , eventually to be picked apart to the point its now considered not that good.

TFA was considered untouchable when it was first released and their was a lot of anger at the suggestion it wasn't as good as it could be. After a couple of years and TLJ,fans are far more critical of it ,and
blast what they previously praise and defended about the film.

With TLJ it was more polarizing among fans from the start so we'll see if there's a fan consensus on the film once episode 9 comes out.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Decided to see this a 2nd time before it leaves the cinema here, which looks to be soon. I did enjoy it more 2nd time, I give it an 8/10. However, I still have HUGE problems with movie, mostly surrounding Luke’s arc and some others regarding the plot and stupidity of some characters.

It’s still the worst of the Disney SW movie for now though IMO. But I do think I will like it more over time, and possibly even love it depending on where they go in Episode 9.