The Daily Planet - Superman News and Speculation Thread

[Prison Mike]

I think I will believe Gunn over what The Wrap thinks they know

 

[Frodo]

He dropped a massive show and did press for a cameo lol not finding a director or writer in a month doesn't mean the whole idea is dead

No it doesn't mean the project is dead by any means.

But even if the project get's going , I'm not buying anything as a certainty, until I see a cast , a film in production, and teaser the very least.

This is WB , and it's not as if everything things always go as planned with this studio.


That said though, Zaslav does seem determined to get things moving on a Cavill Superman film, so if nothing else, the will is at least, there to get another Superman film on the big screen.

 

[Gandhi]

It makes sense that they don’t have a writer or director yet. Gunn + Safran were officially announced after Black Adam’s release and Cavill’s return as Superman.

You would have to wait for their DCU plan to take shape before you can move forward. Only after you know the direction they want to take the character can you start pitching to writers and directors.

 

[emielaen]

No it doesn't mean the project is dead by any means.

But even if the project get's going , I'm not buying anything as a certainty, until I see a cast , a film in production, and teaser the very least.

This is WB , and it's not as if everything things always go as planned with this studio.


That said though, Zaslav does seem determined to get things moving on a Cavill Superman film, so if nothing else, the will is at least, there to get another Superman film on the big screen.

Sure, I get it. I was being a lil facetious and hyperbolic. There's plenty reason to be skeptical.

Gunn said they'll be showing stuff to WBD in a couple months, plus he's busy, and Safran has like 4 movies to keep in line for next year anyway so they don't seem to be in any big rush.

Its just that articles casting doubt on a project's urgency or certainty just a month after their announcement because a writer or director hasn't been hired in said month just reeks of fear mongering

I think they'll want the Superman news to be their first big announcement outside of castings for projects that are already going forward or whatever like Milioti's Penguin casting.

 

[Prison Mike]

It’s click bait. There’s no news, so they create news by saying there’s no news.

 

[Nicko-Ray]

Hopefully we get to see the next 10 year slate (or 5 year) at SDCC next year at the earliest.

 

[dhandler01]

It’s click bait. There’s no news, so they create news by saying there’s no news.

Bingo!

 

[jetage]

Discovery+/WB is in serious financial trouble, if so, I find it strange they would be talking to Cavill and his team, since they seem to be negotiating for a very large contract offer. I believe it was in the tens of millions for a new Superman movie. Yet Cavill has been a failure so far in those movies, if Discovery+ is looking for financial return, why over pay Cavill, a known failure.

Cavill and company have not proven they can deliver on a financial basis. All three of his Superman movies were a failure, yet his team are trying to negotiating for terms far beyond what he can deliver, he has proven to be a box office failure as a lead, and he did absolutely nothing in terms of "Black Adam"

So, sure, Discover + could sign him, but he is a failure as Supes, why continue on that path?

 

[Alien Anal]

Cavill is getting the Wolverine/Jackman treatment without having done any of the work... Dude just looks like a version of Superman, we need more than that to warrant his return.

 

[Prison Mike]

I can understand not liking Cavill for whatever reason but to say those movies were failures because of him is a bit extreme.

 

[flickchick85]

I can understand not liking Cavill for whatever reason but to say those movies were failures because of him is a bit extreme.

He certainly didn't do anything to elevate them in any way. And I can pretty confidently say they would have been better (if still not entirely "good") with a better actor in the lead. There are several scenes he actually dragged down with his wooden line deliveries and exaggerated facial expressions. So entirely because of him? Nah. There were multiple factors. But partially because of him? Absolutely, without question. He was one of those factors. A pretty notable factor. He didn't do anything to win over the audience in those outings, which was his main job.

 

[Prison Mike]

I don’t know…people cheered and clap in my theater during his Black Adam cameo even after when they were mostly silent for the rest of the film. This is probably one of those cases where if you don’t like him in the role, then it amplifies your overall dislike for the films.

I certainly wouldn’t blame WB/Discovery if they ditched Cavill as Superman (not because they think he’s a bad actor but because he’s associated with movies that didn’t perform well), but I am glad they liked him enough to keep him. I think the general audience likes Cavill in the role (at the very least indifferent but no one flat out hates him).

 

[flickchick85]

I don’t know…people cheered and clap in my theater during his Black Adam cameo even after when they were mostly silent for the rest of the film. This is probably one of those cases where if you don’t like him in the role, then it amplifies your overall dislike for the films.

I certainly wouldn’t blame WB/Discovery if they ditched Cavill as Superman (not because they think he’s a bad actor but because he’s associated with movies that didn’t perform well), but I am glad they liked him enough to keep him. I think the general audience likes Cavill in the role (at the very least indifferent but no one flat out hates him).

If the GA liked him in the role, they would've paid to see him. The General Audience give their opinions with their wallets. Always have. It's a pretty straightforward system. Those people "cheering and clapping" at your screening? Those are nerds like us on this website, NOT the general audience. No matter how die-hard that nerd contingent is, they can't make films successful on their own. It's impossible, because they aren't the majority of the audience. They may as well have been "Restore the Snyderverse" types. The people cheering and clapping at Spider-Man: No Way Home? THOSE were the General Audience. And you can tell because they made that movie a nearly $2 billion success story. I manage two movie theaters. I checked in on at least a dozen screenings in the first week of Black Adam's release. A few during the day, a few during the evenings. There was no cheering at ANY point during that scene in any of them. I heard some excited whispering from one group, but that was about it. Same theaters, you sometimes didn't even have to poke your head into the auditorium to hear the cheering in those big moments of NWH, it was that loud in several showings. The internet gives us a VERY skewed view on who is "liked" by the general audience, and it ain't remotely accurate. The numbers are what don't lie. Cavill is a 3x failure as Superman. That's what the numbers say. You can try to separate him from those numbers, but that's a futile attempt at spin. He was the face of those numbers, which were a textbook example of diminishing returns. There's no getting around it. The GA rejected him. Thrice. And that's not even counting Black Adam, which tried to use him as its entire selling point during the last week or so of its press tour. That didn't go well for them, either. It's also not counting the SnyderCut, which failed to justify its existence in streaming numbers. So the argument could be made that he's a 5x failure in the role at this point, but I'm trying to be nice here.

 

[Dr.]

Discovery+/WB is in serious financial trouble, if so, I find it strange they would be talking to Cavill and his team, since they seem to be negotiating for a very large contract offer. I believe it was in the tens of millions for a new Superman movie. Yet Cavill has been a failure so far in those movies, if Discovery+ is looking for financial return, why over pay Cavill, a known failure.

Cavill and company have not proven they can deliver on a financial basis. All three of his Superman movies were a failure, yet his team are trying to negotiating for terms far beyond what he can deliver, he has proven to be a box office failure as a lead, and he did absolutely nothing in terms of "Black Adam"

So, sure, Discover + could sign him, but he is a failure as Supes, why continue on that path?

So I gather — reading between the lines — that you think Cavil was a failure?

I’d actually prefer a re-cast too. But for the opposite reason. Since I quite liked the Snyder Trilogy and Cavill’s characterization of Supes, I’m concerned that a “soft reboot” might retroactively contradict or repudiate the prior continuity. And if that’s the result (or, indeed, the goal), why not just start from scratch? Pick a new actor and a new/fresh interpretation. Then there’d be no audience confusion about what parts of the previous backstory are to be accepted or ignored, what is or is not “canon,” etc.

 

[flickchick85]

So I gather — reading between the lines — that you think Cavil was a failure?

I’d actually prefer a re-cast too. But for the opposite reason. Since I quite liked the Snyder Trilogy and Cavill’s characterization of Supes, I’m concerned that a “soft reboot” might retroactively contradict or repudiate the prior continuity. And if that’s the result (or, indeed, the goal), why not just start from scratch? Pick a new actor and a new/fresh interpretation. Then there’d be no audience confusion about what parts of the previous backstory are to be accepted or ignored, what is or is not “canon,” etc.

Reasons be damned, we here at Team Recast ain't picky.

 

[Prison Mike]

If the GA liked him in the role, they would've paid to see him. The General Audience give their opinions with their wallets. Always have. It's a pretty straightforward system. Those people "cheering and clapping" at your screening? Those are nerds like us on this website, NOT the general audience. No matter how die-hard that nerd contingent is, they can't make films successful on their own. It's impossible, because they aren't the majority of the audience. They may as well have been "Restore the Snyderverse" types. The people cheering and clapping at Spider-Man: No Way Home? THOSE were the General Audience. And you can tell because they made that movie a nearly $2 billion success story. I manage two movie theaters. I checked in on at least a dozen screenings in the first week of Black Adam's release. A few during the day, a few during the evenings. There was no cheering at ANY point during that scene in any of them. I heard some excited whispering from one group, but that was about it. Same theaters, you sometimes didn't even have to poke your head into the auditorium to hear the cheering in those big moments of NWH, it was that loud in several showings. The internet gives us a VERY skewed view on who is "liked" by the general audience, and it ain't remotely accurate. The numbers are what don't lie. Cavill is a 3x failure as Superman. That's what the numbers say. You can try to separate him from those numbers, but that's a futile attempt at spin. He was the face of those numbers, which were a textbook example of diminishing returns. There's no getting around it. The GA rejected him. Thrice. And that's not even counting Black Adam, which tried to use him as its entire selling point during the last week or so of its press tour. That didn't go well for them, either. It's also not counting the SnyderCut, which failed to justify its existence in streaming numbers. So the argument could be made that he's a 5x failure in the role at this point, but I'm trying to be nice here.

I definitely agree that the nerd contingent does not make films successful on their own. It’s the general audience that does that. The issue I have is that there were so many other factors at play with the Snyder movies and his specific vision that it’s impossible to say the general audience didn’t like Cavill in the role and that he was the reason they weren’t profitable. Like I said, I would understand If they started from scratch and got a new Superman (like they did after Routh and SR’s box office performance although I don’t blame Routh for that. He was told to give a specific performance but the movie had bigger problems than that). Hamada didn’t want Cavill back either (not for personal reasons but because he’s associated with movies with tepid box office results). As a Cavill fan, I’m just grateful they’re giving him a second shot. I’m really tired of all the hard reboots. At least Marvel still goes through with their plan even if a movie doesn’t do gangbusters.

 

[flickchick85]

I definitely agree that the nerd contingent does not make films successful on their own. It’s the general audience that does that. The issue I have is that there were so many other factors at play with the Snyder movies and his specific vision that it’s impossible to say the general audience didn’t like Cavill in the role and that he was the reason they weren’t profitable. Like I said, I would understand If they started from scratch and got a new Superman (like they did after Routh and SR’s box office performance although I don’t blame Routh for that. He was told to give a specific performance but the movie had bigger problems than that). Hamada didn’t want Cavill back either (not for personal reasons but because he’s associated with movies with tepid box office results). As a Cavill fan, I’m just grateful they’re giving him a second shot. I’m really tired of all the hard reboots. At least Marvel still goes through with their plan even if a movie doesn’t do gangbusters.

But my point is, those factors don't matter. The general audience doesn't follow wriiters/directors, etc. Most of 'em can't even tell you WHY a movie didn't work for them in any constructive detail. They go for the faces on the poster, the people carrying the trailers, and the brand. Now, one COULD argue that the Superman Brand was equally to blame....that is, if he didn't have decades of previous examples on film and TV proving he can absolutely be a hit with audiences when done well. The Superman Brand is what brought people out for MoS' massive opening weekend. Cavill's Supes is the one that kept them from coming back. The GA now associate Cavill with things they didn't like. SEVERAL times in a row. That can't be undone. People like to bring up Thor's resurgence as a precedent for Cavill, but Thor had one well-liked origin outing, a phenomenal group outing with the Avengers, only one true dud with TDW and mid appearance with AoU before he was revamped. That's two instances of garnering serious audience goodwill, one dud and one "meh"-but-successful outing he had to make up for. Far from what we've got here. I get that you're happy he's back, but Zaslav & Co. are making a terrible mistake if they keep backing this lame horse because he will continue to fail to draw an audience as he always has, and the Superman Brand (and fans) are gonna be paying for it for at least the next decade, while we wait for the next regime to do another postmortem and figure out "what went wrong" and decide if the character's even relevant again. They just launched a brilliant new Batman, the Snyderverse was done, and this was the PERFECT moment to start fresh and move forward for a change. And yet, they are completely stuck in the past (in more ways than one). It's nothing but a shame, imo.

It's not a "second shot" he's getting, btw. It's a fourth shot. Routh was never my favorite, but I imagine if he'd gotten two more movies to make his mark in the role as Cavill did, he probably could have won me over better than Cavill has thus far. His brief stint in the generally awful Crisis on Infinite Earths already felt like an improvement.

 

[jetage]

There are multiple reasons that the "Snyderverse" failed, and Cavill most certainly is one of them. I do find him a a tepid actor at best, and besides being good looking, I don't find he has any screen presence, or charm, at all.

Moving forward with him brings all sorts of problems, the whole frightening de-mustached fiasco, the bad story telling, the bad acting, killing Jimmy Olsen, the neck snap......and more.

Cavill and his Superman, carries all of that baggage, I don't see how WB erases that. Combined with how much his team feels he deserves financially, I think you have another disaster being created.

He seems like a decent person, works to help British Vets, and for animal causes, but he has harmed the character of Superman in the long run, the sooner he is done, the better, or so I believe.

Though strangely I think he would have made a decent tv Superman, especially on The WB network. He could have been ok on a "Lois and Clark" type remake

 

[Alien Anal]

I wanna play a game. We are all 30 years in the future, looking back at the actors, even say we are kids our age now and 30 years in the future.

Who do you think you would look back at now and cast for a Superman film.

Obviously try let go a bit of your already ideal cast and look at it from a different perspective. Just food for thought.

 

[Tra-El]

All Henry needs is a fresh coat of paint in a unified universe that is well written for him, well written for Superman, and well written for him being a focal point in the DCU, something that hasn't happened thus far up to this point. Gunn is going to give that to him. Anything that has come before is going to quickly become moot in the eyes of the audience because this new DCU is going to be approached in a brand new welcoming way for all involved. Say what you want about Gunn, but the dude is a storytelling genius with many flavors. He can go places where we have yet to see.

"I have a second chance, Lo. I am not going to waste it". Good times ahead.

 

[Tra-El]

@Tra-El suggested giving them a daughter instead.

Every medium, even dating to Superman Returns, has Clark and Lo having a boy. Daddy's are just different with a girl and I would absolutely adore seeing Clark interact with his little girl.

 

[Tra-El]

There are multiple reasons that the "Snyderverse" failed, and Cavill most certainly is one of them. I do find him a a tepid actor at best, and besides being good looking, I don't find he has any screen presence, or charm, at all.

Moving forward with him brings all sorts of problems, the whole frightening de-mustached fiasco, the bad story telling, the bad acting, killing Jimmy Olsen, the neck snap......and more.

Cavill and his Superman, carries all of that baggage, I don't see how WB erases that. Combined with how much his team feels he deserves financially, I think you have another disaster being created.

He seems like a decent person, works to help British Vets, and for animal causes, but he has harmed the character of Superman in the long run, the sooner he is done, the better, or so I believe.

Though strangely I think he would have made a decent tv Superman, especially on The WB network. He could have been ok on a "Lois and Clark" type remake

Baggage won't exist the moment Henry's Superman is seen doing something incredibly Superman in a tease or trailer. All of that baggage only exists in the minds of hardcore fans. Seeing Henry's Superman be written in ways that, and I quote, "Superman loving being Superman" , something Henry hasn't been able to do just yet, will only make it better as a fan knowing it's his time for that shine.

 

[Tra-El]

Cavill is getting the Wolverine/Jackman treatment without having done any of the work... Dude just looks like a version of Superman, we need more than that to warrant his return.

How can you be the Wolverine/ Hugh Jackman of Superman and put in the work when the second film of his tenure was more of a Batman introduction, the third one he wasn't in it until the third act, and a 10 second return in a brand new franchise in a post credit scene? The only way to put in the "work" is to do it now. And they are. Finally.

 

[Tra-El]

I don’t know…people cheered and clap in my theater during his Black Adam cameo even after when they were mostly silent for the rest of the film. This is probably one of those cases where if you don’t like him in the role, then it amplifies your overall dislike for the films.

I certainly wouldn’t blame WB/Discovery if they ditched Cavill as Superman (not because they think he’s a bad actor but because he’s associated with movies that didn’t perform well), but I am glad they liked him enough to keep him. I think the general audience likes Cavill in the role (at the very least indifferent but no one flat out hates him).

WBD is doing the exact opposite and David Zaslav has shown to show no mercy on actors, actress's, or films that doesn't benefit future success. Batgirl is a prime example that had a huge name attached like Brendan Frasier, yet, he didn't hesitate.

Zaslav, Horn, and Abdy approved Henry Cavill's return as Superman the moment they got in. There is information provided to them to tell them Henry is their guy. If he wasn't, he wouldn't be.

Zaslav also admitted that the old WB regime dropped the ball on Superman. They didn't even have him on a poster for a Justice League film and sidelined Superman even when the DCEU was ongoing.

Reading between the lines, Zaslav is basically saying the old WB was wrong. They wronged Superman. They wronged Cavill. And they are going to change that. Zaslav is the man we need to be listening to and he has spoken, regardless of the history or lack thereof.

 

[Frodo]

Whether Zaslav is the man to cure WBD DC film woes remains to be seen, and at this point, we have alot of talk and alot of plans , which we've had in the past.

At the end of the day , results matter more than talk and promises.

After we see his results, then we can determine whether Zaslav has succeeded.

Granted , I certainly don't have the faith in Zaslav that some fans have , but I do believe that he wants to give Cavill's Superman a chance to make some good films .

I do believe he genuinely wants a Cavill Superman film to succeed and that he has Cavill's back , in that respect.

If Zaslav if is able to deliver a Superman film which is loved by the GA and critics, as opposed to just diehard DCEU fans, I'll give him credit and tip my hat to him.