DC Films The DC Studios News and Discussion Thread

[Scarlet Spider]

I don't understand this discussion. Gunn had zero involvement with Blue Beetle. It'll have zero bearing on the new DCU.

Blue Beetle originated from the previous regime. It was already in the can. They inherited it.

Just like The New Mutants. A movie that Disney eventually released but had or would have nothing to do with the MCU or their X-Men.

 

[MaceB]

I don't understand this discussion. Gunn had zero involvement with Blue Beetle. It'll have zero bearing on the new DCU.

Blue Beetle originated from the previous regime. It was already in the can. They inherited it.

Just like The New Mutants. A movie that Disney eventually released but had or would have nothing to do with the MCU or their X-Men.

If that’s the case, then fine. It’ll be another box office failure like Shazam 2, because audiences don’t want or care to see a story that is going to shortly get erased anyway. No sweat off my nose - the film will be easily forgotten after being erased by Flashpoint.

My point is basically WB has hamstrung into two bad options: either this movie is erased by Flash, which makes it irrelevant and not super worth watching OR this movie is somehow incorporated into the new continuity, at which point it’s horribly misplaced and hobbling the new continuity before it even starts.

They did this because truly, deeply WB Execs do not understand or respect the DC property, and they insist on being in control of something they really don’t care for. “Blue Beetle, Superman, whatever… just shut up and give us your money.”

 

[Invader Joker]

Blue Beetle looks like it's destined to flop.

 

[Iceman]

So that Blue Beetle trailer...

I understand that some tropes are more or less inevitable when telling superhero origin stories, but does all these movies needs to always use the exact same template when it come to the filmmaking in itself ?
Right now, nothing there stands out to me. And with audiences getting a fatigue for the genre, that kind of generic looking movie are/will be the first to suffer. I haven't seen Shazam 2 but I'd say that this Blue Beetle look like it's coming from the same mold and I guess it will also ends up crawling into the same coffin...

That post sounds harsher than I want it to be, but... yeah.

I really want it to succeed and can see myself enjoying the film a lot, but from the trailer I can already see a chunk of the GA thinking “not again”. It’s not that the trailer is bad, it’s just over-familiar at this point.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah this was in production long before Gunn was put in charge, and the fact that Gunn already has said Superman: Legacy kicks off the new DCU is enough proof that they're not "starting their new universe with Blue Beetle". He also said the new universe is one where superheroes exist and have existed the entire time.

Blue beetle may have been made in a way that allows it as a film or at least the character to fit in the new DCU regardless of which universe it was intended on being in. All in all it seems harmless and mostly like a fun popcorn flick based on a pretty cool character.

I think that is likely the plan. Release it as it was already on the docket and leave it open so that in the unlikely event it somehow explodes like the first Guardians, they at least retain the option to use it if it serves them (and take all the credit for it). The expectation will be that it won't be used, while leaving the option of capitalising on it if it makes bank and if the final product appeals enough to Gunn and co.

 

[FunkMiller]

“Hey guys! We really need Blue Beetle to do well at the box office, following all the flops we’ve had, so we’d better make sure this trailer really sells the character to the audience… especially our hardcore DC fans, who we need to be positive about the film online, and come to see it opening weekend.”

“How about the last thing in the trailer is a throwaway joke about our most popular character being a fascist, that makes zero sense within the fictional universe?”

“Excellent idea!”

Honest to god, it’s like they want to lose money at this point.

 

[J.Drangal]

I disagree with this completely...including the idea that the fatigue is for superheroes. The fatigue is for sequels not for heroes. The audience didn't think they needed another Shazam or Antman that is why those films failed. (Black Adam failed cause it sucked...hard!) I think most moviegoers are being selective so unless it is a property that has any sort of real value on its own sequels just aren't going to be getting the audience as enthused for them as they used to. I also think in many cases some heroes have been overexposed and people just tune out. New heroes are needed to diversify and keep things fresh.

And this trailer trounces every Shazam 2 trailer into dust. Outside of the "fish out of water" aspect which is reminiscent of the first Shazam film I don't see much parallel. (unless anything fun is now parallel to Shazam) Hell the action in this trailer made Shazam 2's trailer look like a second rate Hanna Barbara cartoon. The green screening was about as annoying as any trailer these days but no one ever seems to care about that anymore so that is just me being old I guess It was a fun trailer and will look great in the theater and was a nice taster for what the film will offer.

I doubt this film makes big box office, but it only cost $120 million so it isn't like it has to either. It is quite obviously embracing the idea of making money overseas so I am sure short of a FOTG disaster it will end up fine. Based on what we have seen and how much money it cost they obviously aren't expecting it to be Batman or something, they just want a nice fun family style film that can get good reviews and help build a larger audience. I guess I never see the issue with that.

You know, I think we actually don't disagree that much in the end.

I'm with you when you say that the fatigue is maybe not only related to superheroes but also to sequels and remakes. I would even go further and say that the weariness comes from that whole big bag of american blockbusters filled to the gills with, as you said, green screens (I'm "old" too and even worse, I admit to being a kind of snob who like to t**** himself when talking about classic practical effects like miniatures, make-up and other matte painting...), stupid humor (I specify because not liking this kind of "fun" is sometimes wrongly understood as not liking humor in general) and overall lazy writing. The worst being that whole and boring trend to use metatextual reference to try to be smart (when everybody knows only Twin Peaks managed to make something special with that ). In my initial post I cited CBMs because, to me, they are the representant (and instigator) of that type of cinema.

I also agree with you that these new films seriously need to find some new creative diversity.
That's why I've always more or less rejected these extended universes as it usually reduces the possibilities in terms of degrees of freedom taken from the source material. I don't care about tying things together at all, I'd just like to see more singular directors taking these licenses and making them their own, just like Burton did with Batman Returns back in the day. That's much more exciting to me and I'm (naively) hoping that Gunn's DCU will allow more of that... (*laugh track playing in the background*)

About comparing the trailers for Blue Beetle and Shazam 2, I won't go into that because, in the end, it's very subjective. The general idea was simply that, for me, both fail to promise that genuine vision I'm talking about (did I already say I could be snobbish? ). Everything just feel on auto-pilot.

As for the box office ambition, I'm actually tempted to say that the film looks even more disappointing when you consider that it's actually aiming for more modest returns. It's precisely on these kinds of projects that we should see more risk-taking and less of that mush we keep getting.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

I really want it to succeed and can see myself enjoying the film a lot, but from the trailer I can already see a chunk of the GA thinking “not again”. It’s not that the trailer is bad, it’s just over-familiar at this point.

Absolutely. This is really the result of over-saturation and lack of originality combined.
Whether a film is decently made or not, something more is needed now. And honestly, I'm not complaining...

In the early 2010s, when all those superhero projects, remakes, license throwbacks from our childhood, etc. were announced, it sounded so promising. I finally dropped everything after only a few years in and I can count on my fingers the films I really found good and/or sincere within this set...

So yeah, let's burn it all down and rebuild!

 

[Iceman]

“Hey guys! We really need Blue Beetle to do well at the box office, following all the flops we’ve had, so we’d better make sure this trailer really sells the character to the audience… especially our hardcore DC fans, who we need to be positive about the film online, and come to see it opening weekend.”

“How about the last thing in the trailer is a throwaway joke about our most popular character being a fascist, that makes zero sense within the fictional universe?”

“Excellent idea!”

Honest to god, it’s like they want to lose money at this point.

That line reminds me of the Titans marketing. Doesn't come off well for me. I liked the trailer though, just doesn't have enough X-factor to attract enough of the people who didn't turn up to Shazam IMO.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

Again, Blue Beetle was made at a time they were greenlighting midbudget straight to HBO Max movies.

Remember how close we were to getting Wonder Twins before Zaslav shut that s*** down before they started filming. Then there's Batgirl.

I'm SO ready for the end.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Remember how close we were to getting Wonder Twins before Zaslav shut that s*** down before they started filming.

So glad that one didn't happen!

 

[Lily Adler]

Again, Blue Beetle was made at a time they were greenlighting midbudget straight to HBO Max movies.

Remember how close we were to getting Wonder Twins before Zaslav shut that s*** down before they started filming. Then there's Batgirl.

I'm SO ready for the end.

Wasn't Archie going to be in it?

 

[Iceman]

I disagree with this completely...including the idea that the fatigue is for superheroes. The fatigue is for sequels not for heroes. The audience didn't think they needed another Shazam or Antman that is why those films failed. (Black Adam failed cause it sucked...hard!) I think most moviegoers are being selective so unless it is a property that has any sort of real value on its own sequels just aren't going to be getting the audience as enthused for them as they used to. I also think in many cases some heroes have been overexposed and people just tune out. New heroes are needed to diversify and keep things fresh.

And this trailer trounces every Shazam 2 trailer into dust. Outside of the "fish out of water" aspect which is reminiscent of the first Shazam film I don't see much parallel. (unless anything fun is now parallel to Shazam) Hell the action in this trailer made Shazam 2's trailer look like a second rate Hanna Barbara cartoon. The green screening was about as annoying as any trailer these days but no one ever seems to care about that anymore so that is just me being old I guess It was a fun trailer and will look great in the theater and was a nice taster for what the film will offer.

I doubt this film makes big box office, but it only cost $120 million so it isn't like it has to either. It is quite obviously embracing the idea of making money overseas so I am sure short of a FOTG disaster it will end up fine. Based on what we have seen and how much money it cost they obviously aren't expecting it to be Batman or something, they just want a nice fun family style film that can get good reviews and help build a larger audience. I guess I never see the issue with that.

I guess you're talking specifically CBMs when it comes to sequels (John Wick 4, Creed III , Scream 6 all doing fine ). Quality and differentiation will beat out any fatigue, but the absence of those will start to weigh now that we've had so many similar CBMs come out. I'm really rooting for this one though, and as you say, the controlled budget will help and hopefully it proves popular overseas.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

Wasn't Archie going to be in it?

Riverdale right? Yeah that one.

 

[TheScarecrow]

Really don't get this whole thing about "Who asked for Blue Beetle?".

1. The film is not set in the DCU. If it is incorporated later it will be incorporated as "loose continuity" like everything else.
2. I remember the same thing being said about Peacemaker, which probably ended up being the best thing in the DCEU.

I thought the trailer looked fun. Some notes - they should have leaned more heavily into the anime-esque style action, had Spanish language songs over it and included some of the Spanish dialogue from the film.

Something to rectify for the next trailer. Overall, looks like a fun time and has been testing well too.

Deadline is reporting "rumours" that Xolo's Jaime will ultimately be incorporated into the DCU, so that's good.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

The Blue Beetle suit gave me this vibe.

 

[dhandler01]

I highly disagree. Audiences know when they are being patronized. Sure, it can work for a while, until it falls apart like it has several times for WB now. There’s nothing wrong with trying to make a coordinated story that makes sense. That’s what will keep audiences coming back to the theaters… get them engaged in the universe and the characters, and develop those characters over time. Pretending like every movie is just a one-off roller coaster that can ignore/contradict other movies is not good storytelling, and good storytelling is what brings in audiences.

Literally all evidence says you are wrong. Half the MCU films were pure trash stories or so paint by numbers a monkey could have written them yet the audience ate it up like candy. How many Transformer films (not to mention other Michael Bay films) make booku bucks despite being hilariously terrible when it comes to storytelling? The Fast and Furious Franchise has what 11 films half of them contradicting each other in one way or another and yet they still keep coming...the history of Hollywood is filled with evidence that nobody gives a damn one bit. Great storytelling leads to just as many bombs as terrible storytelling.

The majority of the audience doesn't care, they want to be entertained.

 

[dhandler01]

You know, I think we actually don't disagree that much in the end.

I'm with you when you say that the fatigue is maybe not only related to superheroes but also to sequels and remakes. I would even go further and say that the weariness comes from that whole big bag of american blockbusters filled to the gills with, as you said, green screens (I'm "old" too and even worse, I admit to being a kind of snob who like to t**** himself when talking about classic practical effects like miniatures, make-up and other matte painting...), stupid humor (I specify because not liking this kind of "fun" is sometimes wrongly understood as not liking humor in general) and overall lazy writing. The worst being that whole and boring trend to use metatextual reference to try to be smart (when everybody knows only Twin Peaks managed to make something special with that ). In my initial post I cited CBMs because, to me, they are the representant (and instigator) of that type of cinema.

I also agree with you that these new films seriously need to find some new creative diversity.
That's why I've always more or less rejected these extended universes as it usually reduces the possibilities in terms of degrees of freedom taken from the source material. I don't care about tying things together at all, I'd just like to see more singular directors taking these licenses and making them their own, just like Burton did with Batman Returns back in the day. That's much more exciting to me and I'm (naively) hoping that Gunn's DCU will allow more of that... (*laugh track playing in the background*)

About comparing the trailers for Blue Beetle and Shazam 2, I won't go into that because, in the end, it's very subjective. The general idea was simply that, for me, both fail to promise that genuine vision I'm talking about (did I already say I could be snobbish? ). Everything just feel on auto-pilot.

As for the box office ambition, I'm actually tempted to say that the film looks even more disappointing when you consider that it's actually aiming for more modest returns. It's precisely on these kinds of projects that we should see more risk-taking and less of that mush we keep getting.

Anyway, that's my take on it.



Absolutely. This is really the result of over-saturation and lack of originality combined.
Whether a film is decently made or not, something more is needed now. And honestly, I'm not complaining...

In the early 2010s, when all those superhero projects, remakes, license throwbacks from our childhood, etc. were announced, it sounded so promising. I finally dropped everything after only a few years in and I can count on my fingers the films I really found good and/or sincere within this set...

So yeah, let's burn it all down and rebuild!

 

[dhandler01]

I guess you're talking specifically CBMs when it comes to sequels (John Wick 4, Creed III , Scream 6 all doing fine ). Quality and differentiation will beat out any fatigue, but the absence of those will start to weigh now that we've had so many similar CBMs come out. I'm really rooting for this one though, and as you say, the controlled budget will help and hopefully it proves popular overseas.

I actually am yes. Sequels seem fine for everything else but I think Superheroes have overstayed their welcome when it comes to sequels. New heroes are needed, and smaller budgets are needed. Blue Beetle is the right idea...whether it works we will see we just don't know enough yet. I think it will be modest hit like Shazam which is fine. Maybe it won't make much noise here in The States but I bet it does pretty well overseas for various reasons. I am hardly an expert though...

Honestly speaking, the quality of superhero sequels tends to suck anyways no matter the universe or character. Sooner or later the output has diminishing returns. That is not always the case with other franchises for various reasons. The best example you named...John Wick. The first one is the best but honestly I saw 4 today and it is probably the second best of the films and it is way closer than you would think. I am not sure what it is about superheroes but people get bored with them pretty quick including the film makers themselves. How many "Part 3s" of CBMs are worth watching in any way? Sadly not many. The MCU's episodic nature held the boredom at bay for quite a while but even with all of their goodwill it is rubberbanding. This has happened to every genre in every decade since Hollywood began. They find something that works and run it into the ground. The audience will still watch the films that are good, but they will walk away from the derivative dreck that is an obvious cashgrab.

I dunno maybe it is fatigue, maybe the Pandemic killed what little momentum there was, or maybe it is just that every 2 minutes a new blockbuster is coming out and people just don't have the time and money to see them all. All I know is I made time out of my day to see John Wick 4 today and still havent seen FOTG even though I wanted to. Blue Beetle's trailer has me more interested in that than any of the FOTG trailers did. We will see what subsequent trailers nring.

 

[Nemeres]

I mostly liked the Blue Beetle trailer. It plays a little like a Mad Libs of superhero tropes for sure. But the cultural aspect could be a bigger hook than people think. I know where I'm from, folks would get a kick out of seeing a superhero referred to as "mijo". The family characters seem fun, suit looks great and different.

The usual origin beats are always gonna be there, namely in the trailers, but there's plenty of ways to make the story its own thing. "Bumblebee" wasn't Shia's Transformers all over again, "Homecoming" wasn't Garfield's high school Spider-Man all over again. I mostly worry about script. They need to start doing a better kind of quality control on that front.

 

[MaceB]

Literally all evidence says you are wrong. Half the MCU films were pure trash stories or so paint by numbers a monkey could have written them yet the audience ate it up like candy. How many Transformer films (not to mention other Michael Bay films) make booku bucks despite being hilariously terrible when it comes to storytelling? The Fast and Furious Franchise has what 11 films half of them contradicting each other in one way or another and yet they still keep coming...the history of Hollywood is filled with evidence that nobody gives a damn one bit. Great storytelling leads to just as many bombs as terrible storytelling.

The majority of the audience doesn't care, they want to be entertained.

audiences ate it up like candy because they got invested in the overall story. They wanted to see how the story ends for iron man, captain America, and to a lesser extent Thor. Audiences didn’t keep coming back for the roller coaster ride. See how it collapsed after endgame. The story was over so people dropped off.

saying ‘oh story doesn’t matter, just put some space fights in there!” Is definitely an example of why WB fails. Story and character is king. And you build an interconnected story by making a strong continuity for the audience.

 

[dhandler01]

I mostly liked the Blue Beetle trailer. It plays a little like a Mad Libs of superhero tropes for sure. But the cultural aspect could be a bigger hook than people think. I know where I'm from, folks would get a kick out of seeing a superhero referred to as "mijo". The family characters seem fun, suit looks great and different.

The usual origin beats are always gonna be there, namely in the trailers, but there's plenty of ways to make the story its own thing. "Bumblebee" wasn't Shia's Transformers all over again, "Homecoming" wasn't Garfield's high school Spider-Man all over again. I mostly worry about script. They need to start doing a better kind of quality control on that front.

I was kind of hinting at this. It (along with the way the film is presented) seems to be looking to entice a more international audience.

 

[Iceman]

I actually am yes. Sequels seem fine for everything else but I think Superheroes have overstayed their welcome when it comes to sequels. New heroes are needed, and smaller budgets are needed. Blue Beetle is the right idea...whether it works we will see we just don't know enough yet. I think it will be modest hit like Shazam which is fine. Maybe it won't make much noise here in The States but I bet it does pretty well overseas for various reasons. I am hardly an expert though...

Honestly speaking, the quality of superhero sequels tends to suck anyways no matter the universe or character. Sooner or later the output has diminishing returns. That is not always the case with other franchises for various reasons. The best example you named...John Wick. The first one is the best but honestly I saw 4 today and it is probably the second best of the films and it is way closer than you would think. I am not sure what it is about superheroes but people get bored with them pretty quick including the film makers themselves. How many "Part 3s" of CBMs are worth watching in any way? Sadly not many. The MCU's episodic nature held the boredom at bay for quite a while but even with all of their goodwill it is rubberbanding. This has happened to every genre in every decade since Hollywood began. They find something that works and run it into the ground. The audience will still watch the films that are good, but they will walk away from the derivative dreck that is an obvious cashgrab.

I dunno maybe it is fatigue, maybe the Pandemic killed what little momentum there was, or maybe it is just that every 2 minutes a new blockbuster is coming out and people just don't have the time and money to see them all. All I know is I made time out of my day to see John Wick 4 today and still havent seen FOTG even though I wanted to. Blue Beetle's trailer has me more interested in that than any of the FOTG trailers did. We will see what subsequent trailers nring.

I think you have a point for the vast majority of solo superheroes. There wasn’t even a huge demand for an Iron Man 4 amongst fans or studio despite 3 doing $1.2B. They kept the character fresh with his other MCU appearances.

 

[Iceman]

Really don't get this whole thing about "Who asked for Blue Beetle?".

1. The film is not set in the DCU. If it is incorporated later it will be incorporated as "loose continuity" like everything else.
2. I remember the same thing being said about Peacemaker, which probably ended up being the best thing in the DCEU.

I thought the trailer looked fun. Some notes - they should have leaned more heavily into the anime-esque style action, had Spanish language songs over it and included some of the Spanish dialogue from the film.

Something to rectify for the next trailer. Overall, looks like a fun time and has been testing well too.

Deadline is reporting "rumours" that Xolo's Jaime will ultimately be incorporated into the DCU, so that's good.

“they should have leaned more heavily into the anime-esque style action, had Spanish language songs over it and included some of the Spanish dialogue from the film.”

Very much agreed with this. These are all key differentiators that could have given the first trailer an extra X-factor (even though I liked it anyway). Hope we get it all in the next trailer.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Blue Beetle looks fun. Kinda gives Shazam 1 vibes (I still haven't seen the sequel). Loved the last line in the trailer. I've always felt like minorities probably wouldn't dig Batman in real life haha.

 

[chintai80]

the trailer gave me vibes of ms marvel series + the guyver + ultraman = which is cool.

i liked the relatable family dynamic they showed too = this is great.

the teases of the older blue beetle's was nice.

you can tell this movie was originally meant for streaming - nonetheless, still looks like a fun time.

not every superhero film has to be The Batman.