Eternals The Eternals General Disscussion and Speculation thread

[InCali]

thank you so much answering. I love MCU but i am v limited on budget now

I went and saw it for a second time yesterday and actually enjoyed it more than I did the first viewing. In my initial viewing, I thought it started slow and picked up. The twist was enjoyable and I thought the movie was well done in just about every way. The pacing did drag a bit at times because they were trying to do a lot.

During the second viewing, I found the beginning and middle of the movie moved much more quickly and I enjoyed that part much more. While I obviously wasn't surprised by the twist, I still liked the end. It was a really well done movie IMO.

 

[Dr. Evil]

 

[metaphysician]

not the advocation of Thano's genocide
not the depiction of the Avanger's as the villains (for bring those life's back)

Um, gonna have to say that's a very innovative interpretation. By which I mean, its nonsense that isn't particularly found in the movie.

Spoiler

Thanos' actions are portrayed as a bad thing, which the Avengers undoing is literally said, by Ajak, as her reason for thinking this planet was special and needed to be saved. Nobody actually praises Thanos for killing half the population in the movie, or condemns the Avengers. If you want to say "Thanos did good by delaying the Emergence", you can, but only by some very stretched interpretation can you even begin to claim this was Thanos' intent, and "I accidentally delayed a cataclysm by a few years, by inflicting a cataclysm that is vastly worse" is not much of a moral position. For that matter, even if he did it *intentionally*, its not much of a justification for atrocity, seeing as he killed half of everyone in the universe whether they were under imminent threat of Death-By-Celestial or not.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

tho I was speaking from a hypothetical POV, of things that people might misconstrue as something to get offended by...

but, for the sake of argument...

why did they not act against Thanos, then? Yes, there was the throw-a-line of "were only suppose to intervene when it comes to deviants" but I don't buy that

cause clearly Thanos proved a much bigger threat to the grander scheme (of trying to insure over population) then any deviant ever did... Arishem probably did give Ajak's the mission to stop him, but she willingly defied those orders, an instead told the others not to act... knowingly allowing what happened (as it insured earth an any other planets being used in such a way) more time

why they didn't in turn act against the Averages, then? idk, I would assume they didn't have time to act as no-one really knew what they were up too
(or wouldn't have been able to explain that to the others without revealing their true purpose)

 

[InCali]

After watching the theater trailers, I'm getting psyched about going to the movies again. House of Gucci looks rather interesting. I'm definitely going to see the new Spider Man movie (but haven't see the movie trailer at all......is it even out?). Matrix looks kinda cool and the Batman movie is going to be a must see asap. The BM preview looks pretty awesome.

As far as The Eternals goes, I'll take the storyline as it's told. They weren't supposed to take action unless it was the Deviants. Done.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

We are really getting into the weeds here.

As far as I remember the film doesn't present the Eternals as being somehow any more in the know about Thanos than anyone else. So I don't get the assumption that they even could have sprung into action to stop him before IW or join up with the other heroes of Earth to undo the snap and then join them in the battle at Avengers HQ upstate.

Like @InCali stated the film gives us the reason. They were ordered not to interfere unless they knew Deviants were involved and until Ikaris found those thawed out ones they assumed there was no more Deviant threats.

And before anyone points out Thanos' Deviant genes, they didn't know about the Titan Eternals.

 

[Spider-Fan]

tho I was speaking from a hypothetical POV, of things that people might misconstrue as something to get offended by...

but, for the sake of argument...

why did they not act against Thanos, then? Yes, there was the throw-a-line of "were only suppose to intervene when it comes to deviants" but I don't buy that

cause clearly Thanos proved a much bigger threat to the grander scheme (of trying to insure over population) then any deviant ever did... Arishem probably did give Ajak's the mission to stop him, but she willingly defied those orders, an instead told the others not to act... knowingly allowing what happened (as it insured earth an any other planets being used in such a way) more time

why they didn't in turn act against the Averages, then? idk, I would assume they didn't have time to act as no-one really knew what they were up too
(or wouldn't have been able to explain that to the others without revealing their true purpose)

My take on this: Celestials are beings that have lived for thousdans if not millions of years. The flaw in Thanos's logic is eventually, the population will recover. Yes, that may take many years by our standards, but like 100-200 years in the life of a being that has been living since before the universe, that isn't that long. So to a Celestial, it may not make sense to interfere. Plus, who knows what inventions will come as a result of the blip. Remember, war fuels healing tech. Same may apply for a massive cosmic disaster

 

[metaphysician]

We are really getting into the weeds here.

As far as I remember the film doesn't present the Eternals as being somehow any more in the know about Thanos than anyone else. So I don't get the assumption that they even could have sprung into action to stop him before IW or join up with the other heroes of Earth to undo the snap and then join them in the battle at Avengers HQ upstate.

Like @InCali stated the film gives us the reason. They were ordered not to interfere unless they knew Deviants were involved and until Ikaris found those thawed out ones they assumed there was no more Deviant threats.

And before anyone points out Thanos' Deviant genes, they didn't know about the Titan Eternals.

Also, unless there was something I missed, the movie neither said nor implied anything about Thanos being a Deviant or connected to them in any way.

 

[TheVileOne]

of all the things for people to find controversial
not the sex scene in the desert sand
not the perpetual child in-love with a grown man
not the advocation of Thano's genocide
not the depiction of the Avanger's as the villains (for bring those life's back)
not the dismissal of God and theory of creation

I'll never understand people (are we sure they even did the right thing in saving earth?)

Thanos was right...?...!

 

[Spider-Fan83]

^is that a question? or statement ? lol

I mean he was right about over population issues in general.... but, not necessarily the solution... but in this case he did in fact save the world for a time (but its like a 1 out of 100 ratio of how many planets he saved vs how many he just wiped out half the population of for no reason) so the ends doesn't really justify the means

even if he did in fact knew about this the whole time, an he only targeted the planets this would happen too... it's still questionable if it would it be justified

 

[Zyraquis]

Just saw the second time, and appreciated it even more as I picked up a bit more subtleties that I missed the first time around. This is definitely in my top quarter of MCU movies, it has something more to say than saving the world from ending. It’s a matter of how the execution speaks to different people watching this. For me, it works.

 

[Hannibal75]

Just saw the second time, and appreciated it even more as I picked up a bit more subtleties that I missed the first time around. This is definitely in my top quarter of MCU movies, it has something more to say than saving the world from ending. It’s a matter of how the execution speaks to different people watching this. For me, it works.

I hope Eternals is reevaluated in the near future the same way "The Thing" or "Blade Runner" were.
I'm not saying it's a masterpiece like these two films but it most certainly doesn't deserve all the s**t it got by the critics.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Spoiler: odd question

Did this movie explain why Ego wanted to destroy other planets? Does he hate other celestials and wanted to be the only one? Did he want them to hatch sooner and limit their powers? Isn't he a celestial in the MCU so he should be more considerate towards his brethren?

@Batmannerism @Spider-Fan @Deck Rickard @flickchick85 I hope you don't mind joining to answering this insane question, or my unintentional attempt at one.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Spoiler: odd question

Did this movie explain why Ego wanted to destroy other planets? Does he hate other celestials and wanted to be the only one? Did he want them to hatch sooner and limit their powers? Isn't he a celestial in the MCU so he should be more considerate towards his brethren?

@Batmannerism @Spider-Fan @Deck Rickard @flickchick85 I hope you don't mind joining to answering this insane question, or my unintentional attempt at one.

Ego explained that in GOTG2. He found live in the universe disappointing and thus wanted to replace it with himself. Eternals didn't expand on that at all

 

[flickchick85]

Spoiler: odd question

Did this movie explain why Ego wanted to destroy other planets? Does he hate other celestials and wanted to be the only one? Did he want them to hatch sooner and limit their powers? Isn't he a celestial in the MCU so he should be more considerate towards his brethren?

@Batmannerism @Spider-Fan @Deck Rickard @flickchick85 I hope you don't mind joining to answering this insane question, or my unintentional attempt at one.

Spoiler

This movie didn’t mention Ego at all. I had completely forgotten he was a celestial, tbh.

 

[InCali]

Just saw the second time, and appreciated it even more as I picked up a bit more subtleties that I missed the first time around. This is definitely in my top quarter of MCU movies, it has something more to say than saving the world from ending. It’s a matter of how the execution speaks to different people watching this. For me, it works.

Same for me. I felt it dragging a little bit during the first half of the movie or so, but that didn't happen for me on the second viewing.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Ego explained that in GOTG2. He found live in the universe disappointing and thus wanted to replace it with himself. Eternals didn't expand on that at all

Not the comical response I was aiming for, but I get it. Thanks.

Spoiler

This movie didn’t mention Ego at all. I had completely forgotten he was a celestial, tbh.

Spoiler

Apparently so did Feige.

Thanks for the answer.

 

[InCali]

My take away from GOTG2 was that Ego had very little, if any, contact with other Celestials. His description of his birth and his development seemed to preclude that. If fact, I would go as far as to say that his experience was very different, or even the opposite, from the Celestial that was

Spoiler

meant to be born on earth

 

[Batmannerism]

Spoiler: odd question

Did this movie explain why Ego wanted to destroy other planets? Does he hate other celestials and wanted to be the only one? Did he want them to hatch sooner and limit their powers? Isn't he a celestial in the MCU so he should be more considerate towards his brethren?

@Batmannerism @Spider-Fan @Deck Rickard @flickchick85 I hope you don't mind joining to answering this insane question, or my unintentional attempt at one.

Salam Aleykum, my friend.

Spoiler

The film doesn't mention Ego. But, Arishem ( the de facto boss Celestial) says that they seed planets with embryo Celestials which can grow to become new Celestials ( which is what happened with Earth, the Celestial Tiamut was growing inside it).

Anyway, here's my theory. Ego is a Celestial but at a very primitive stage of development compared to Arishem - I mean Ego is millions of years old, Arishem is billions of years old. I think that Ego could have eventually become like Arishem. I mean he has some if the Celestial abilities such as matter manipulation and generating energy . But whereas Ego could send out Avatars to fly around the cosmos, Arishem could travel by creating a singularity - he was much, much larger than Ego.

Anyway, there's a problem with people not reading previous film stories and maintaining continuity - Ego's plan threatened the Celestials' cosmic order , and they clearly would have prevented him from succeeding - although if he only seeded a few thousand or so worlds that's not much to them compared to the vastness of the universe.

The bigger continuity problem is that the Eternals would have had to get involved with the Ultron crisis and the Thanos incident - because both of these would have affected their true mission ( to help humanity reach sufficient population size to allow Tiamut to be born).
They wouldn't have been affected by the snap because they are not really alive - but surely Arishem would have instructed them to either prevent the snap or find a way to undo it.

If the writers were smarter or had simply adapted Neil Gaiman's Eternals series ( instead of just lifting a few ideas and not even giving him a credit) that would have completely fixed this - as ij Gaiman's series the Eternals' memories have been erased and they think they are ordinary humans.

 

[Batmannerism]

I hope Eternals is reevaluated in the near future the same way "The Thing" or "Blade Runner" were.
I'm not saying it's a masterpiece like these two films but it most certainly doesn't deserve all the s**t it got by the critics.

Yeah, I went in expecting to hate it....but didn't.

It was very ambitious but weakly executed. Not a terrible or even a bad film. I really liked the third act, the rest of it was a mess. I loved the depiction of the Celeatials though, it really captured their cosmic scope - made even Dormammu look pretty puny.

 

[Batmannerism]

Also, unless there was something I missed, the movie neither said nor implied anything about Thanos being a Deviant or connected to them in any way.

No, that's something from the comic continuity. Jim Starlin created Thanos back in the 70s as a Titanian Eternal.
As far as I know the Eternals' connection to the Celestials , as servant androids, is an invention of the great Neil Gaiman (met him, nice guy) back in 2006.

Happy to be corrected if wrong.

 

[Batmannerism]

Thanos was right...?...!

Actually I think "IKARIS WAS RIGHT!" is a better t shirt idea.

He has a reasonably strong "greater-good" argument, as the Earth Celestial, Tiamut, would have created countless star systems, and probably trillions of living things - compared to the sacrifice of 7 billion humans.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

My take away from GOTG2 was that Ego had very little, if any, contact with other Celestials. His description of his birth and his development seemed to preclude that. If fact, I would go as far as to say that his experience was very different, or even the opposite, from the Celestial that was

Spoiler

meant to be born on earth

Salam Aleykum, my friend.

Spoiler

The film doesn't mention Ego. But, Arishem ( the de facto boss Celestial) says that they seed planets with embryo Celestials which can grow to become new Celestials ( which is what happened with Earth, the Celestial Tiamut was growing inside it).

Anyway, here's my theory. Ego is a Celestial but at a very primitive stage of development compared to Arishem - I mean Ego is millions of years old, Arishem is billions of years old. I think that Ego could have eventually become like Arishem. I mean he has some if the Celestial abilities such as matter manipulation and generating energy . But whereas Ego could send out Avatars to fly around the cosmos, Arishem could travel by creating a singularity - he was much, much larger than Ego.

Anyway, there's a problem with people not reading previous film stories and maintaining continuity - Ego's plan threatened the Celestials' cosmic order , and they clearly would have prevented him from succeeding - although if he only seeded a few thousand or so worlds that's not much to them compared to the vastness of the universe.

The bigger continuity problem is that the Eternals would have had to get involved with the Ultron crisis and the Thanos incident - because both of these would have affected their true mission ( to help humanity reach sufficient population size to allow Tiamut to be born).
They wouldn't have been affected by the snap because they are not really alive - but surely Arishem would have instructed them to either prevent the snap or find a way to undo it.

If the writers were smarter or had simply adapted Neil Gaiman's Eternals series ( instead of just lifting a few ideas and not even giving him a credit) that would have completely fixed this - as ij Gaiman's series the Eternals' memories have been erased and they think they are ordinary humans.

Wa Alaikum Assalam, friend.

I'm starting to think the person who said this was better off without the continuity of the MCU attached to it was right. Sorry to say I forgot who said that.

Thanks for the interesting and engaging replies everyone.

 

[Hannibal75]

Wa Alaikum Assalam, friend.

I'm starting to think the person who said this was better off without the continuity of the MCU attached to it was right. Sorry to say I forgot who said that.

Thanks for the interesting and engaging replies everyone.

Ι said that Eternals should have been a standalone film with no connections to the MCU. That was its biggest flaw IMHO.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Yeah you know, since Marvel had these multiverse plans, it might have been better to set Eternals in an entirely separate reality so they wouldn’t have felt the need to periodically cram in references to Thanos and Iron Man and all that. It also would make them look a little better as characters since they wouldn’t have sat out when Thanos almost destroyed half the life in the universe.

Then they could have brought them into the broader MCU later if it worked out.