Disney in talks to buy Fox: X-Men Homecoming? - Part 4

[Leo Zelinsky]

Is that no as in "Marvel would never do it!" or no as in "I simply couldn't accept any version of Wolverine that can't prove full caucasian ancestry via a DNA testing site?

I wouldn't want a White Storm so I can see why someone wouldn't want a Asian Wolverine. Just make Sunfire popular. Hopefully this doesn't get deleted

 

[Marvel united]

I'm not against race changes. I'm fully onboard with the idea of Magneto's origin being updated to something more relevant but certain characters should be left alone. Wolverine is among Cap and Peter Parker.

Jean on the otherhand isnt as iconic as Logan but her red hair is a defining part of her look.

 

[Marvel united]

If I were Marvel, I would just avoid revealing too much about his origin. We got several movies about it from FOX, and the prequel directly about it sucked. I would just keep it mainly a mystery and nebulous.

Well, Marvel has to to make it clear that Logan is over 100 years old and has an insanely long lifespan. They could show flashbacks of him fighting alongside Steve during WW2

 

[Big Bang]

I wouldn't want a White Storm so I can see why someone wouldn't want a Asian Wolverine. Just make Sunfire popular. Hopefully this doesn't get deleted

Sunfire is an interesting situation since Big Hero 6 went in another direction with its animated movie, and there is a possibility he could be utilized in that arena.

 

[ADollarADay]

Is that no as in "Marvel would never do it!" or no as in "I simply couldn't accept any version of Wolverine that can't prove full caucasian ancestry via a DNA testing site?

No as in that idea sucks ass.

 

[Zarex]

No as in that idea sucks ass.

So it's the second one then.

 

[DrCosmic]

Just stay true to what the characters look like in the comics. The X-Men are so diverse anyway.

Bear with me for a moment... I don't think this is actually true.

Of the X-Men, not counting characters, like, say Angel Salvadore who have been X-Men in comics but are considered "taking someone's spot" when they're included on a team, we have

White Males: Havok, Iceman, Beast, Scott, Xavier, Wolverine, Banshee, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Sabertooth, Gambit, Longshot, Angel, Cable, Magneto
White Females: Polaris, Dazzler, Jean Grey, Rogue, Psylocke technically, Marrow
Black Males: Bishop
Black Females: Storm, Cecelia Reyes
Hispanic Males: ...
Hispanic Females: Cecelia Reyes
Asian Males: Sunfire
Asian Females: Psylocke-ish
Other Males: Forge (First Nations)
Other Females: ...

And that's before we even get into quality of inclusion. For instance, take a look at the classic X-Men storyarcs and villains, and how many of them emotionally spotlight white males versus females, to say nothing of minorities.

Contrast this with, say... GotG: Two white guys, the original ambiguously biracial man, a pacific islander and an afrolatina. In fact, every film except for the Avengers films has been much more diverse than this, and even with those, they keep getting more diverse each time. Is X-Men ready to be that diverse? Not going by their past rosters...

Now X-Men gets a lot of credit for diversity by headlining Storm so well, and by including a lot of non-racial diversity, thematically and otherwise, but when it comes to racial diversity, they actually haven't moved since the 80s while everyone else has caught up and, in some cases, passed them.

Marvel Studios across film and TV, has a habit of gender and race swapping characters, but only the supporting ones and not the lead characters.

True. Question for all: How many of the X-Men are lead characters?

---

Honestly, I think part of the appeal to use the diverse members of the X-Men's extensive roster is lipservice. In my experience, when we get a diverse team of C-listers, like in First Class, people complain that it's not the "real" X-Men, not the "real Angel." I think when we ask to let the B and C-list X-Men be the diverse members of the cast, some part of us assumes that they will remain B and C list as normal, and not take the places, narratively, of our A-list White X-Men. If the possibility of "Brown Beast or no Beast at all" was presented, I think the spread on what people would prefer would be much different.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Bear with me for a moment... I don't think this is actually true.

Of the X-Men, not counting characters, like, say Angel Salvadore who have been X-Men in comics but are considered "taking someone's spot" when they're included on a team, we have

White Males: Havok, Iceman, Beast, Scott, Xavier, Wolverine, Banshee, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Sabertooth, Gambit, Longshot, Angel, Cable, Magneto
White Females: Polaris, Dazzler, Jean Grey, Rogue, Psylocke technically, Marrow
Black Males: Bishop
Black Females: Storm, Cecelia Reyes
Hispanic Males: ...
Hispanic Females: Cecelia Reyes
Asian Males: Sunfire
Asian Females: Psylocke-ish
Other Males: Forge (First Nations)
Other Females: ...

If you stopped reading the X-MEN in the 90's maybe

 

[Spider-Fan]

Well, Marvel has to to make it clear that Logan is over 100 years old and has an insanely long lifespan. They could show flashbacks of him fighting alongside Steve during WW2

I would be okay with a Wolverine in WWII meeting the Howling Commandos flashback

 

[ADollarADay]

So it's the second one then.

It's a ****** idea, yes.

 

[Zarex]

If you stopped reading the X-MEN in the 90's maybe

Well, that WAS their heyday. Folks aren't going to be excited to see Gold Balls in the MCU X-Men lineup.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Well, that WAS their heyday. Folks aren't going to be excited to see Gold Balls in the MCU X-Men lineup.

Exactly

People are going to want to see the popular ones.

 

[DrCosmic]

If you stopped reading the X-MEN in the 90's maybe

You'd think so, right? But no, they haven't moved past that, because, like most comics, they can't get characters from 90s onward to stick, and the earliest characters (majority White male) have gotten most of the focus, so they get most of the focus going forwards. You remember the covers to last years big pushes:

Storm and some White folks, as usual. Nothing more, nothing less.

This issue with the foundation of a narrative universe being set is also why X-Men carries so much more gender diversity than almost anything else, because Jean, Psylocke, Storm, Shadowcat, Rachel and more had tons of history going into the 90s, to say nothing of what they have today. I also think this has to do with why the X-Men, as a franchise, is perceived as more diverse than they are, because the student body has always been much more diverse, going back to New Mutants with a grand total of two White guys back in 86, a tradition carried on today in spades.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Well, that WAS their heyday. Folks aren't going to be excited to see Gold Balls in the MCU X-Men lineup.

Plenty of diversity candidates that don't involve gold balls or raceswapping

Spoiler

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

You remember the covers to last years big pushes:

Storm and some White folks, as usual. Nothing more, nothing less.

Oooooooor you could post a newer picture

 

[DrCosmic]

Oooooooor you could post a newer picture

Can you be more specific? I haven't kept up with X-comics for the last five years, and googling "x-men comic 2018" doesn't give me any pictures that prove what I think your point might be...

Edit:

Maybe this?

If so, this is a great example of the "Goldballs" comment. Talon is Goldballs. This is great and appropriately experimental for a THIRD X-Book, but give people this lineup as THE MCU X-Men, no Cyclops, no Gambit, no Angel, No Beast, no Iceman, no Wolverine and this is the clincher: or any storylines that center on them and instead give them a D-lister newbie like Talon, you might just have yourself a Riot at Xavier's *badum*tss*

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Can you be more specific? I haven't kept up with X-comics for the last five years, and googling "x-men comic 2018" doesn't give me any pictures that prove what I think your point might be...

You say it's storm and white people. When this current book a Indian Mutant and African mutant. And only one white guy. You said you don't read X-MEN books so how can you be so definitive that's there's no diversity in x books when that's not the case.

 

[Kuwolski]

I can see them changing possibly one iconic character, likely Charles or Magneto, but I think folks may be expecting too much if they think Marvel is going to play fast and loose with iconic characters. The less popular (iconic) characters I can see.

I love the idea of Jeffrey Wright as Beast, it's a perfect match of getting the best of both (characterization and diversity), but you know those people who love to complain for the sake of it would criticize the casting when he turns into Beast. Even though it's a great choice.

I'd be shocked if they changed Wolverine, it's a fine line that has to be tread carefully. It's mass entertainment at the end of the day. If you get to the point where race-swapping becomes as vilified as whitewashing and it overshadows everything else, then the creators have failed.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

If so, this is a great example of the "Goldballs" comment. Talon is Goldballs. This is great and appropriately experimental for a THIRD X-Book, but give people this lineup as THE MCU X-Men, no Cyclops, no Gambit, no Angel, No Beast, no Iceman, no Wolverine and this is the clincher: or any storylines that center on them and instead give them a D-lister newbie like Talon, you might just have yourself a Riot at Xavier's *badum*tss*

There's a wakandian on that cover (everyone loves them nowadays) as well as X-23 and a breakout character in popularity the Honeybadger. Not comparable to gold balls.

 

[Zarex]

I can see them changing possibly one iconic character, likely Charles or Magneto, but I think folks may be expecting too much if they think Marvel is going to play fast and loose with iconic characters. The less popular (iconic) characters I can see.

I love the idea of Jeffrey Wright as Beast, it's a perfect match of getting the best of both (characterization and diversity), but you know those people who love to complain for the sake of it would criticize the casting when he turns into Beast. Even though it's a great choice.

I'd be shocked if they changed Wolverine, it's a fine line here that has to be trade carefully. It's mass entertainment at the end of the day. If you get to the point where race swapping becomes as villified as whitewashing, then the creators have failed.

Let me be the first to endorse the idea of Jeffrey Wright as Hank. Kelsey Beast was by far the best thing about TLS and Mr. Wright should be able to bring a similar bearing to the character.

 

[DrCosmic]

You say it's storm and white people. When this current book a Indian Mutant and African mutant. And only one white guy. You said you don't read X-MEN books so how can you be so definitive that's there's no diversity in x books when that's not the case.

I'm not definitive that there's no diversity in X-Men books. Never said it, don't believe it, gave lots of examples of diversity in X-Men books. I am *analyzing* that diversity, yes, but if you need to argue with someone who says there's no diversity, I can't help you.

As in my edit above, I think this third more diverse X-Men book is really interesting, but the fact this high diversity is on a third title kind of underlines my point that the X-Men are not that diverse. Avengers does something similar with Uncanny Avengers and Ultimate Avengers, but I would not say the Avengers are "so diverse" because their non-main titles feature diverse B and C-list characters. Some might, but on the basis of comparing what actually makes up the X-Men with what we actually think of as a great deal of diversity, and comparing it to similarly diverse things we don't think of as diverse, I've called that into question and opened a discussion on these comparisons and by what metric we consider something "very" diverse.

There's a wakandian on that cover (everyone loves them nowadays) as well as X-23 and a breakout character in popularity the Honeybadger. Not comparable to gold balls.

Nah. Goldballs > Wolvie clone clones, every day of the week. It's such a played concept, she'd have to be written by early Claremont living inside of Matt Fraction's brain to even think about getting on Goldballs' level.

God bless that little man.

 

[Kuwolski]

Let me be the first to endorse the idea of Jeffrey Wright as Hank. Kelsey Beast was by far the best thing about TLS and Mr. Wright should be able to bring a similar bearing to the character.

I honestly can't think of anyone more perfect.

 

[Marvel united]

Jeffrey Wright is too old for Hank/Beast. He's already 52 years old and he'll be pushing 60 by the time the first MCU X-Men comes out. Age is a huge factor in casting. I do have a few other picks in mind for Hank that are poc

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Some might, but on the basis of comparing what actually makes up the X-Men with what we actually think of as a great deal of diversity, and comparing it to similarly diverse things we don't think of as diverse, I've called that into question and opened a discussion on these comparisons and by what metric we consider something "very" diverse.

That was never my point. You all are basically saying since nobody knows anyone besides the X-MEN from the Jim Lee era that it's better to raceswap instead of introducing new characters to the public.

Nah. Goldballs >

Valkryie, Okoye, Nakia, Shuri people left the last two MCU movie praising these characters.


Someone like Monet is stronger just as smart and has way better powerset. She'd be a excellent tank instead of a Colossus or rogue for example. X-MEN didn't stop with the animated series

 

[TheVileOne]

You'd think so, right? But no, they haven't moved past that, because, like most comics, they can't get characters from 90s onward to stick, and the earliest characters (majority White male) have gotten most of the focus, so they get most of the focus going forwards. You remember the covers to last years big pushes:

Storm and some White folks, as usual. Nothing more, nothing less.

This issue with the foundation of a narrative universe being set is also why X-Men carries so much more gender diversity than almost anything else, because Jean, Psylocke, Storm, Shadowcat, Rachel and more had tons of history going into the 90s, to say nothing of what they have today. I also think this has to do with why the X-Men, as a franchise, is perceived as more diverse than they are, because the student body has always been much more diverse, going back to New Mutants with a grand total of two White guys back in 86, a tradition carried on today in spades.

Kitty Pryde is Jewish and a minority.

Also, you could always change it to X-23/Laura is the new Wolverine of the films. Just saying.