The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 54

[Iceman]

How much have they spent since 2013? Can't even imagine the total.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

Wow, didn’t even know Jose called out Lukaku after yesterday’s game. If he’s lost even one of his supposed trusted lieutenants in the squad, I shudder to think how things will be going forward.

 

[Iceman]

What did he say?

 

[B]

Pogba, Martial and Rashford, and he's crucified Shaw already, plus you skipped over the part about the fact he'll also lumber us with his aging dog soldiers on huge wages when he's finally flushed down the toilet.

Pogba & Rashford I don't want sold, Martial's expendable though for me. Ideally, I'd like to see him go on loan or sell him but with a buy back clause the way Madrid had with Morata should he take off. At the moment though he's too inconsistent even when he gets a few games in a row, he isn't a proper LW & he isn't good or consistent enough to warrant playing him as striker instead of Lukaku.

Shaw's expendable, there's no way 2 managers of LvG & Mourinho's experience come to the club & both not take to him. I agree that there is no reason to crucify him, however it's worth considering that perhaps both he & LvG tried the 'put your arm round him' approach behind the scenes & it didn't get a reaction. In saying that though, I'd like Shaw to stay & Young to go on the basis that Shaw's a proper f-ing LB & is still only 22. He needs to sort his rumored weight & general fitness out though sooner rather than later.

I agree with you on lumbering us with potential 30+ lumps is potentially a problem, but in all honesty some of the players we have are so mediocre that I'm not against them being used as stop gaps in favour of getting rid of some of the current crop that just aren't good enough.

I'm not interested in a few poxy stats of minor importance, Pep made him his ***** and finished nearly 20 points ahead of him, with the garbage Mourinho has served up he'd need to deliver a treble to get a tiny pat on the back from me, no trophy is worth his poisonous personality and soul destroying football, it is some of the worst I've ever seen. As far as the players he's signed, so far Lukaku and Matic are the only two he could count as working out to any degree. Ibra was here for 6 months, Pogba and Bailly have regressed under him, he sold Mkhi, Lindelof has barely played and Sanchez has been utterly crap for all but 2 halves since he brought him in. He deserves nothing, he's spent a fortune and has ruined the bulk of our best young flair players while creating a toxic atmosphere and producing football even Tony Pulis would turn his nose up at.

Those poxy statistics are very important, it's an indictment of how bad we've been the last 5 years & the fact that we actually managed to push 80 points with this squad, which any season other than this one would have made us either champions or run the winners much closer than 19 points, is baffling. I thought you were one of the few in here who loved the statistics, especially after last summer(s) rants about Lukaku & his Everton statistics.

For me, it's pointless comparing the 'fortune spending' of City/United & Guardiola/Mourinho. Both of them took over teams in completely different states & the only similarities is that both clubs/managers spending in the last 2 years has been "closer". City's spending has been to round off & patch leaks of an already title challenging squad, United's spending has been to try & re-build a core/backbone of a team that couldn't even make the top 4.

We need a new manager, no matter who we buy it'll still be dog**** under this odious little narcissist.

Maybe we do, maybe we don't, personally I don't think any other manager could have got this squad of players any closer to City this season & I also don't think we'd have played on the whole any better.

It's been 4 years, 2 managers, essentially the same squad & yet the calibre of play overall hasn't changed drastically. The only common denominator is some of the sub-par players, nothing will change until more of them are moved on.

 

[DeadPresident]

Do you think he might get overtaken by Klopp?

In terms of overall success or how in demand either of them are? I think it'll be tough for Klopp to reach the trophy haul Mourinho has, but as far as who is more in demand it's Klopp by a country mile IMO.

Klopp has shown he's capable of making a team more than the sum of its parts, while Mourinho does the exact opposite. He needs a team full of world class players that he'll have playing barely watchable, utilitarian football.

I hate to be pessimistic but I don't think we're achieving anything significant with Mourinho, which is mostly galling because our squad should feasibly give City a closer run. If we had a manager with a coherent vision beyond "don't lose" we could see some fantastic football from the likes of Pogba, Martial, Sanchez, and Rashford but they're all dropping off.

To be really blunt, if you gave this squad to Guardiola or Klopp we'd be seeing Rashford and Martial absolutely toast a few players and guys like Sanchez and Pogba creating good chances in a free flowing style, we definitely have the attacking players to win a league.

 

[Iceman]

In terms of overall success or how in demand either of them are? I think it'll be tough for Klopp to reach the trophy haul Mourinho has, but as far as who is more in demand it's Klopp by a country mile IMO.

Klopp has shown he's capable of making a team more than the sum of its parts, while Mourinho does the exact opposite. He needs a team full of world class players that he'll have playing barely watchable, utilitarian football.

I hate to be pessimistic but I don't think we're achieving anything significant with Mourinho, which is mostly galling because our squad should feasibly give City a closer run. If we had a manager with a coherent vision beyond "don't lose" we could see some fantastic football from the likes of Pogba, Martial, Sanchez, and Rashford but they're all dropping off.

To be really blunt, if you gave this squad to Guardiola or Klopp we'd be seeing Rashford and Martial absolutely toast a few players and guys like Sanchez and Pogba creating good chances in a free flowing style, we definitely have the attacking players to win a league.

Yeah agreed. Utd is the wrong place for talented young players to be. And I was asking about whether Klopp"s Liverpool will start consistently finishing above Utd in the league.

 

[DeadPresident]

Yeah agreed. Utd is the wrong place for talented young players to be. And I was asking about whether Klopp"s Liverpool will start consistently finishing above Utd in the league.

Oh, right, my mistake I misunderstood. I think it's a distinct possibility, yeah, if Liverpool manage to sort their defense out I think they'll end up being a more difficult side to beat than United because we offer so little threat in attack.

I definitely see Liverpool or Spurs improving as a more likely prospect than Mourinho suddenly turning the squad around and making them formidable.

 

[Iceman]

Oh, right, my mistake I misunderstood. I think it's a distinct possibility, yeah, if Liverpool manage to sort their defense out I think they'll end up being a more difficult side to beat than United because we offer so little threat in attack.

I definitely see Liverpool or Spurs improving as a more likely prospect than Mourinho suddenly turning the squad around and making them formidable.

And if they do, it could start coming down to Utd and Chelsea to battle it out for 4th.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Pogba & Rashford I don't want sold, Martial's expendable though for me. Ideally, I'd like to see him go on loan or sell him but with a buy back clause the way Madrid had with Morata should he take off. At the moment though he's too inconsistent even when he gets a few games in a row, he isn't a proper LW & he isn't good or consistent enough to warrant playing him as striker instead of Lukaku.

Shaw's expendable, there's no way 2 managers of LvG & Mourinho's experience come to the club & both not take to him. I agree that there is no reason to crucify him, however it's worth considering that perhaps both he & LvG tried the 'put your arm round him' approach behind the scenes & it didn't get a reaction. In saying that though, I'd like Shaw to stay & Young to go on the basis that Shaw's a proper f-ing LB & is still only 22. He needs to sort his rumored weight & general fitness out though sooner rather than later.

I agree with you on lumbering us with potential 30+ lumps is potentially a problem, but in all honesty some of the players we have are so mediocre that I'm not against them being used as stop gaps in favour of getting rid of some of the current crop that just aren't good enough.



Those poxy statistics are very important, it's an indictment of how bad we've been the last 5 years & the fact that we actually managed to push 80 points with this squad, which any season other than this one would have made us either champions or run the winners much closer than 19 points, is baffling. I thought you were one of the few in here who loved the statistics, especially after last summer(s) rants about Lukaku & his Everton statistics.

For me, it's pointless comparing the 'fortune spending' of City/United & Guardiola/Mourinho. Both of them took over teams in completely different states & the only similarities is that both clubs/managers spending in the last 2 years has been "closer". City's spending has been to round off & patch leaks of an already title challenging squad, United's spending has been to try & re-build a core/backbone of a team that couldn't even make the top 4.



Maybe we do, maybe we don't, personally I don't think any other manager could have got this squad of players any closer to City this season & I also don't think we'd have played on the whole any better.

It's been 4 years, 2 managers, essentially the same squad & yet the calibre of play overall hasn't changed drastically. The only common denominator is some of the sub-par players, nothing will change until more of them are moved on.

I started to write a 3 part response and then realized there was no point, no offense to you mate but until this poisonous lttle scumbag is out of the club I don't care, he has made us utterly unwatchable and his press antics are so toxic that it makes my blood boil to the point I know it's not worth it, I just want next season over and him gone, nothing else matters to me in regards to United. His comments after the Cup final sum him up, we would have won if Fellaini had been on in his eyes, his only answer to a tough defense is hoofball to a big lump, that's not Manchester United, he's not fit to be our manager.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

I started to write a 3 part response and then realized there was no point, no offense to you mate but until this poisonous lttle scumbag is out of the club I don't care, he has made us utterly unwatchable and his press antics are so toxic that it makes my blood boil to the point I know it's not worth it, I just want next season over and him gone, nothing else matters to me in regards to United. His comments after the Cup final sum him up, we would have won if Fellaini had been on in his eyes, his only answer to a tough defense is hoofball to a big lump, that's not Manchester United, he's not fit to be our manager.

What did he say mate?

 

[DeadPresident]

And if they do, it could start coming down to Utd and Chelsea to battle it out for 4th.

Yeah, I think it's going to be an uphill battle from here. No doubt we're going to add quality to the squad and we'll improve, but it'll be Mourinho's third season and he's making baby steps worth of progress where someone like Guardiola or Klopp made huge strides in the same period. Perhaps Spurs will drop off a little because they could lose a couple of players, but it'll be City and Liverpool to beat next season IMO.

Guardiola and Mourinho arrived at the same time, both had average first seasons, and in the second Guardiola outstripped Mourinho emphatically. As long as Guardiola is at City Mourinho ain't getting a sniff at the title, same as in Spain.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah, I think it's going to be an uphill battle from here. No doubt we're going to add quality to the squad and we'll improve, but it'll be Mourinho's third season and he's making baby steps worth of progress where someone like Guardiola or Klopp made huge strides in the same period. Perhaps Spurs will drop off a little because they could lose a couple of players, but it'll be City and Liverpool to beat next season IMO.

Guardiola and Mourinho arrived at the same time, both had average first seasons, and in the second Guardiola outstripped Mourinho emphatically. As long as Guardiola is at City Mourinho ain't getting a sniff at the title, same as in Spain.

Mourinho is all about max intensity and then crash and burn. That won't work now that the others are getting established and some of the post-success toxicity has set in early (before the success).

 

[B]

I started to write a 3 part response and then realized there was no point, no offense to you mate but until this poisonous lttle scumbag is out of the club I don't care, he has made us utterly unwatchable and his press antics are so toxic that it makes my blood boil to the point I know it's not worth it, I just want next season over and him gone, nothing else matters to me in regards to United. His comments after the Cup final sum him up, we would have won if Fellaini had been on in his eyes, his only answer to a tough defense is hoofball to a big lump, that's not Manchester United, he's not fit to be our manager.

I think that's were we both disagree, correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like you believe this squad is more than good enough to be winning leagues & fighting for the CL & that all of the clubs failures, including play style are completely down to Mourinho & Mourinho alone. I'm of the complete opposite opinion.

Jose Mourinho might not be the perfect fit for the club, but the main most crippling issue is this squad & some of the players just aren't good enough, not even good enough for 2nd & yet we've somehow got there. I don't think it matters who is manager of the club, as long as we have no natural fullbacks & no legitimate wide players instead settling for aging converted wingers to play as fullback & young strikers or central playmakers being asked to provide width we're never going to drastically change playstyle or seriously challenge because we simply do not have the players capable of doing so with any sort of consistency.

Don't let it get to you mate, it's hard being a fan of anything especially if you don't agree with everything going on. Open your heart to love, 60% of the time in conquers all everytime. t:






EDIT - Awww the little heart emoji isn't working

 

[Hunter Rider]

I think that's were we both disagree, correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like you believe this squad is more than good enough to be winning leagues & fighting for the CL & that all of the clubs failures, including play style are completely down to Mourinho & Mourinho alone. I'm of the complete opposite opinion.

Jose Mourinho might not be the perfect fit for the club, but the main most crippling issue is this squad & some of the players just aren't good enough, not even good enough for 2nd & yet we've somehow got there. I don't think it matters who is manager of the club, as long as we have no natural fullbacks & no legitimate wide players instead settling for aging converted wingers to play as fullback & young strikers or central playmakers being asked to provide width we're never going to drastically change playstyle or seriously challenge because we simply do not have the players capable of doing so with any sort of consistency.

Don't let it get to you mate, it's hard being a fan of anything especially if you don't agree with everything going on. Open your heart to love, 60% of the time in conquers all everytime. t:






EDIT - Awww the little heart emoji isn't working

I don't give a **** about league titles or CL's at this point, we've won plenty, the only thing I agree with you on here is the fullbacks, hardly any teams use old fashioned, boring wingers, we don't need them, we just need attacking fullbacks for width.

Having said that Mourinho is 100% the reason we are unwatchable, loads of managers could have gotten a team with Pogba, Martial, Mata, Sanchez and Rashford in it playing good, exciting football. Mourinho's sides have always been fairly **** to watch, but it's gotten worse since Real Madrid where he was finally at a club that was bigger than him and didn't cater to his toxic ego, that experience scarred him and he sank deeper into his belief in negative, suffocating football and has added in the wrinkle of toxicity towards players because in his last two jobs he's found out that there are players who are not going to bow down to his God complex and actually treat him with the disdain a poisonous little ******** like him deserves.

 

[Bobber]

Willian covering Conte in emoji trophies.
Childish and disrespectful, borderline disgraceful behaviour.

 

[Iceman]

Why did he do that? Does he not get on with him?

 

[DeadPresident]

Three guesses who Mourinho will try and sign from Chelsea next...

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Why did he do that? Does he not get on with him?

It's because he didn't start the game. He only came on at the end of the regulation time to replace Hazard.

BTDubz, glad that we were able to close out the game. Beating Man Utd to the title makes it sweeter. But it doesn't redeem our season. Winning the FA Cup does not compensate for losing out on the top 4 spot in EPL. That's not good. We need to play in the CL to attract big names.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Three guesses who Mourinho will try and sign from Chelsea next...

Well ManUtd is playing in the CL next season so that'll be an improvement for Willian. So I fully expect him to go to ManUtd or any other CL playing club. We floundered this season and nao we'll pay the price by not being able to hold onto our best players for the next one. We may not see Hazard, Willian or Courtois in a Blues shirt next season. I have no idea how we are going to cope this July/August in the transfer market. I mean, if we couldn't land our top choices in the recently concluded season by being the defending PL champions and with promise of CL then the prospects of next season aren't looking good at all. We'll need a bigger squad next season because there will be a lot fatigue, injuries due to extra games in Europa League. We need marquee signings plus we'll hafta buy squad players to rotate effectively. Not sure how we're going to pull that off if the big guns leave us. So not happy with the season at all.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Three guesses who Mourinho will try and sign from Chelsea next...

30 years old, hardly any flair, doesn't score many or create many, well below even a player like Mahrez, but guess what he does do? Kisses Mourinho arse and runs about a lot, hence why we will get rid of one of the best young talents in Europe and buy in this dog soldier for the toxic one, the antithesis of everything the club stands for.

 

[DeadPresident]

Well ManUtd is playing in the CL next season so that'll be an improvement for Willian. So I fully expect him to go to ManUtd or any other CL playing club. We floundered this season and nao we'll pay the price by not being able to hold onto our best players for the next one. We may not see Hazard, Willian or Courtois in a Blues shirt next season. I have no idea how we are going to cope this July/August in the transfer market. I mean, if we couldn't land our top choices in the recently concluded season by being the defending PL champions and with promise of CL then the prospects of next season aren't looking good at all. We'll need a bigger squad next season because there will be a lot fatigue, injuries due to extra games in Europa League. We need marquee signings plus we'll hafta buy squad players to rotate effectively. Not sure how we're going to pull that off if the big guns leave us. So not happy with the season at all.

I don't think either of our clubs are going to have memorable 2018/2019 seasons, both Chelsea and United need significant squad changes and Chelsea will likely have the additional difficulty of adjusting to a new manager, too.

30 years old, hardly any flair, doesn't score many or create many, well below even a player like Mahrez, but guess what he does do? Kisses Mourinho arse and runs about a lot, hence why we will get rid of one of the best young talents in Europe and buy in this dog soldier for the toxic one, the antithesis of everything the club stands for.

Yeah, I have to admit Martial's departure for a work horse wide player will probably be my final straw. Martial is clearly a world class talent in the making, and he's being squandered because he doesn't track opposing full backs enough. Or, and what's more likely, Mourinho's treatment of him doesn't motivate him to do so sufficiently.

I'm really pessimistic about our prospects next season, and even more pessimistic about the likelihood I'm going to enjoy it at all.

 

[Iceman]

Martial will go somewhere else and become huge.

 

[DeadPresident]

He really will. He'll probably get picked up by PSG or some similar club and go on to become a fantastic player.

Mourinho exiled Salah and De Bruyne at similar ages, only for them to eventually develop into world class talents in any case.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Yeah, I have to admit Martial's departure for a work horse wide player will probably be my final straw. Martial is clearly a world class talent in the making, and he's being squandered because he doesn't track opposing full backs enough. Or, and what's more likely, Mourinho's treatment of him doesn't motivate him to do so sufficiently.

I'm really pessimistic about our prospects next season, and even more pessimistic about the likelihood I'm going to enjoy it at all.

If we sell Martial and sign Willian and Talisca I'm going to take a break until we drain the cancer that is Mourinho from the club. At this point there is zero joy no matter the result, we are the worst team in the league to watch with a manager who is just detestable, What is happening to United is like watching someone you love drink themselves to death.

 

[Iceman]

He really will. He'll probably get picked up by PSG or some similar club and go on to become a fantastic player.

Mourinho exiled Salah and De Bruyne at similar ages, only for them to eventually develop into world class talents in any case.

He's really got an eye for these things!