The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 54

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If we sell Martial and sign Willian and Talisca I'm going to take a break until we drain the cancer that is Mourinho from the club. At this point there is zero joy no matter the result, we are the worst team in the league to watch with a manager who is just detestable, What is happening to United is like watching someone you love drink themselves to death.

I might go a similar way, I watched the vast majority of our games this season but I can't recall one I actually enjoyed despite some victories against the likes of City or Liverpool.

I had faith that Mourinho could get the club back to winning ways, and sure he's stopped the descent from the Moyes/LvG era, but despite buying getting talents like Lukaku, Pogba, Mkhitaryan, and Sanchez it feels like Mourinho has hit a very low ceiling in terms of what he can achieve.

We'll have to make some exceptional signings to be able to have enough raw talent to counteract Mourinho's drab style of play.

He's really got an eye for these things!

:funny:

"This kid, he's going to be great, I can feel it…Sell him!"
 
I don't give a **** about league titles or CL's at this point, we've won plenty, the only thing I agree with you on here is the fullbacks, hardly any teams use old fashioned, boring wingers, we don't need them, we just need attacking fullbacks for width.

I'm not talking about just traditional touchline hugging wingers, which are far from boring when they're used correctly with marauding fullbacks I might add, I'm referring to those that are simply natural wide men. Martial, Rashford, Mata & Mkhitaryan are not natural wide players & yet they have been filling that role since even before Mourinho arrived. 2 of them came through their respective ranks as strikers & 2 made their name as being more centralised playmakers.

Sanchez & Lingard are our only 2 more naturally suited wide men, we've only seen glimpses of what Sanchez is capable off & while Lingard's one of the more improved players this year, he still should only be a squad/rotation option at best.

Having said that Mourinho is 100% the reason we are unwatchable, loads of managers could have gotten a team with Pogba, Martial, Mata, Sanchez and Rashford in it playing good, exciting football. Mourinho's sides have always been fairly **** to watch, but it's gotten worse since Real Madrid where he was finally at a club that was bigger than him and didn't cater to his toxic ego, that experience scarred him and he sank deeper into his belief in negative, suffocating football and has added in the wrinkle of toxicity towards players because in his last two jobs he's found out that there are players who are not going to bow down to his God complex and actually treat him with the disdain a poisonous little ******** like him deserves.

I don't see it, while I never want to see the expectations of the club or fans lower, I don't think this squad is as good as you think it is. Particularly Martial & Rashford, I get that they are very talented with a lot of potential each, but I don't hold them in the same sort of light as Rooney & Ronaldo when they were their age. Neither of them has the same level of intelligence in the final third & neither is consistent enough to be relied upon to carry the goalscoring or creative burden of the team.

Pogba & Sanchez, I think it comes down to what's around them. I think to get more out of Sanchez, you need a competent LB that will overlap & attempt to create more space for him. Pogba I'm not so sure anymore, I think he needs a 3 man central midfield almost always with at least 1 of the 3 always holding their position in order to allow him to have more freedom.

Outside of Mourinho who you've made it quite clear you want gone :-)D), realistically which players do you want to see moved on this summer & is there anyone in particular you'd like brought in?
 
I might go a similar way, I watched the vast majority of our games this season but I can't recall one I actually enjoyed despite some victories against the likes of City or Liverpool.

I had faith that Mourinho could get the club back to winning ways, and while he's stopped the descent from the Moyes/LvG era despite buying getting talents like Pogba, Mkhitaryna, and Sanchez it feels like Mourinho has hit a very low ceiling in terms of what he can achieve.

We'll have to make some exceptional signings to be able to have enough raw talent to counteract Mourinho's drab style of play.


The second half vs City at the Emptyhad and the Cup semi vs Spurs are the only 2 games I enjoyed and could say actually felt like Man Utd, other than that it has been as bad as LvG's second season, the 2nd place isn't masking anything, Spurs and Liverpool might end up winning nothing this season and both finished a few points behind us, but I bet if you polled their fans they'd all be massively more excited and enthusiastic about where their club is going and more importantly, how they are getting there.


Mourinho is a souless and joyless man, at one point he was a trophy winning machine, a footballing Skynet, people overlooked his nature and his style to a degree because he won so much and you had to respect it on some level, but now the Midas touch has gone he's like a raw, exposed nerve, a gushing wound oozing toxic, foul puss, laid bare for all to see, and unfortunately United are the ones acting as an incubator for this disease.
 
Rumours increasing of Fekir coming, supposedly to be announced after the CL final. Hope its true as he's a beast of a player - him, Keita, a good goalkeeper and a decent CB would make for a good summer TF window.
 
The second half vs City at the Emptyhad and the Cup semi vs Spurs are the only 2 games I enjoyed and could say actually felt like Man Utd, other than that it has been as bad as LvG's second season, the 2nd place isn't masking anything, Spurs and Liverpool might end up winning nothing this season and both finished a few points behind us, but I bet if you polled their fans they'd all be massively more excited and enthusiastic about where their club is going and more importantly, how they are getting there.


Mourinho is a souless and joyless man, at one point he was a trophy winning machine, a footballing Skynet, people overlooked his nature and his style to a degree because he won so much and you had to respect it on some level, but now the Midas touch has gone he's like a raw, exposed nerve, a gushing wound oozing toxic, foul puss, laid bare for all to see, and unfortunately United are the ones acting as an incubator for this disease.

Yeah, it's clear now how far Mourinho has fallen, his aura of invincibility broke some time ago.

Only thing to really hope for is that we have a fantastic transfer window and the players end up gelling in attacking despite Mourinho, since he can do the dreary defensive coaching quite well.

Rumours increasing of Fekir coming, supposedly to be announced after the CL final. Hope its true as he's a beast of a player - him, Keita, a good goalkeeper and a decent CB would make for a good summer TF window.

That would probably put you at par with City in terms of starting XI quality, although I'm not sure how Fekir slots in. Does he relegate Mane to the bench or is Fekir himself back up?
 
I'm not talking about just traditional touchline hugging wingers, which are far from boring when they're used correctly with marauding fullbacks I might add, I'm referring to those that are simply natural wide men. Martial, Rashford, Mata & Mkhitaryan are not natural wide players & yet they have been filling that role since even before Mourinho arrived. 2 of them came through their respective ranks as strikers & 2 made their name as being more centralised playmakers.

Sanchez & Lingard are our only 2 more naturally suited wide men, we've only seen glimpses of what Sanchez is capable off & while Lingard's one of the more improved players this year, he still should only be a squad/rotation option at best.


This is simply not true though, expcept for Mata, and even then if you look at his best season for Chelsea he played off the RW as a floating playmaker just like Silva did for City for years.


Lingard is an AM/#10 and has said so over and over, Mkhitaryan's best season at Dortmund came playing on the RW and Martial's best games for Monaco were with him playing off the left, a position he thrived in for us as well under LvG. The reason all of these attackers struggle is down to Mourinho's complete lack of attacking nous, he has no idea what to do when we are the team that is supposed to be the dominant one, it's why we've dropped points to sides like Newcastle, Brighton, West Brom, Huddersfield and Stoke while winning the bigger games, his only two methods of attack are counter and long ball, he's a ****ing dinosaur and THAT is why these players struggle and why our attack is so bad.


I don't see it, while I never want to see the expectations of the club or fans lower, I don't think this squad is as good as you think it is. Particularly Martial & Rashford, I get that they are very talented with a lot of potential each, but I don't hold them in the same sort of light as Rooney & Ronaldo when they were their age. Neither of them has the same level of intelligence in the final third & neither is consistent enough to be relied upon to carry the goalscoring or creative burden of the team.


I never said they were on that level, but they were doing well under LvG and the moment Toxic Joe came in both were dropped, replaced and browbeaten by a guy that has zero clue how to manage young players, and the main point is that there are dozens of managers that could get good, exciting football out of this squad, come on mate, there are loads of sides out there with much worse squads than us who spend a lot less money than us but who play much better football than us, hell look at Liverpool's midfield, the 3 in there are far from world beaters but with their manager that side is energized, they enjoy their football, ours look like a bunch of defeate workers clocking into the factory for a shift knowing they have to go home to cold egg sandwiches and sex with a wife who looks like Nora Batty.


Pogba & Sanchez, I think it comes down to what's around them. I think to get more out of Sanchez, you need a competent LB that will overlap & attempt to create more space for him. Pogba I'm not so sure anymore, I think he needs a 3 man central midfield almost always with at least 1 of the 3 always holding their position in order to allow him to have more freedom.


Sanchez is a concern in general, there are some scary latter day Rooney vibes about him. As for Pogba, look at how he started the season and then look at how he finished it, he looks miserable, it's clear as day he's had run-ins with Toxic and it's demoralized his play, it's not the system or who he is playing with, it's who is managing him.



Outside of Mourinho who you've made it quite clear you want gone :-)D), realistically which players do you want to see moved on this summer & is there anyone in particular you'd like brought in?


I'd let Fellaini go and sell Darmian, Young, Shaw, Jones and Blind. I'd bring in Sandro, Odriozola and Alderweireld, I'm scared of who we'd bring in for midfield to be honest when I see what we are linked with but we will buy someone which terrifies me. I'd not buy an attacker, he shouldn't be allowed to sell any of the ones we have bar Mata and he shouldn't be allowed to buy one as it will be ****ing Willian or some other workhorse.
 
Rumours increasing of Fekir coming, supposedly to be announced after the CL final. Hope its true as he's a beast of a player - him, Keita, a good goalkeeper and a decent CB would make for a good summer TF window.
I saw that rumour last night, he's class and so is Keita, I think you could probably do with another deeper lying CM as well, but overall you are building well, you must be pissing youself laughing when you see us buying Talisca and Willian, you don't even need to do anything but foucs on City, we can take care of ****ing our own **** up.


Yeah, it's clear now how far Mourinho has fallen, his aura of invincibility broke some time ago.

Only thing to really hope for is that we have a fantastic transfer window and the players end up gelling in attacking despite Mourinho, since he can do the dreary defensive coaching quite well.


I don't want that either to be honest, nothing good can come of him remaining here any further, the sooner he goes the sooner we can try and salvage the mess.
 
I don't want that either to be honest, nothing good can come of him remaining here any further, the sooner he goes the sooner we can try and salvage the mess.

I'd also prefer Mourinho's departure to be expedited but since it's not going to happen this summer I'm holding thumbs the squad manages to conjure something up of their own accord, otherwise it's going to be a depressing season.
 
This is simply not true though, expcept for Mata, and even then if you look at his best season for Chelsea he played off the RW as a floating playmaker just like Silva did for City for years.


Lingard is an AM/#10 and has said so over and over, Mkhitaryan's best season at Dortmund came playing on the RW and Martial's best games for Monaco were with him playing off the left, a position he thrived in for us as well under LvG.

That's the thing though, a floating playmaker isn't really a wide role given that the player basically goes where the ball & space takes them which is anywhere really, usually into the same sort of areas as a No. 10. Even though he may have been down on the team sheet as being a RW, in reality he probably spent about as much time there as he did centrally. Very similar story with Mkhi at Dortmund as the trio of Mkhitaryan, Kagawa & Reus playing behind Aubameyang frequently were deployed in different positions & often changed/alternated within games. I think even for Dortmund he was definitely a lot more of a playmaking 10 than a wide player.

Lingard as a 10 is where he has shone this year, but he is competent at playing on the flank for the simple fact that he'll run with & without the ball both inside & outside. I can't speak on Martial's games for Monaco because I only ever watch Ligue 1 highlights which used to be on Eurosport, now on BT/ESPN I believe & he was never a player that I can recall vividly sticking out at the time. I do know however he's spoken a couple of times stating he's a striker, he prefers to play through the middle, but is content to play out wide to aid both club & country when asked. I do think though, that competent fullbacks giving him support though could make it a Rooney type situation with Martial in the sense that LW (or even RW) might not be his ideal position, but he can get the job done.

When I think of a wide player/role, I think of a normal winger or an inside winger/forward type player. While I do feel there is a place for wide roaming playmakers, for that to work you really need to have a very complete wingback to fill the hole on that flank.

The reason all of these attackers struggle is down to Mourinho's complete lack of attacking nous, he has no idea what to do when we are the team that is supposed to be the dominant one, it's why we've dropped points to sides like Newcastle, Brighton, West Brom, Huddersfield and Stoke while winning the bigger games, his only two methods of attack are counter and long ball, he's a ****ing dinosaur and THAT is why these players struggle and why our attack is so bad.

I agree with this statement 99.9%, it was a problem that existed when LvG was in charge as well, that when a team played ultra defensive against us, we had no answers as to how to break the them down.

I think the most glaringly obvious problem is the complete lack of width. Everybody wants to play inside, Sanchez, Martial, Rashford, Mata & even Young all look to cut back inside which when you are playing a team that's ultra defensive, it suits them down to the ground given that they're all so compact & congested in the middle.

I'd let Fellaini go and sell Darmian, Young, Shaw, Jones and Blind. I'd bring in Sandro, Odriozola and Alderweireld, I'm scared of who we'd bring in for midfield to be honest when I see what we are linked with but we will buy someone which terrifies me. I'd not buy an attacker, he shouldn't be allowed to sell any of the ones we have bar Mata and he shouldn't be allowed to buy one as it will be ****ing Willian or some other workhorse.

No objection to all of those leaving, Felliani, Darmian & Young in particular. Bar maybe Shaw, we still need a LB, but given his age I'd like to see him remain for the time being, even if it's to be a rotation option.. although we would in theory still have Rojo assuming he can get himself fit who's competent at LB.

I'd be completely fine with Sandro & Alderweireld should we be able to nab both of them, can't see Spurs being compliant though. I'm not extensively familiar with Odriozola other than what I'm reading now, would you not fancy Fosu-Mensah coming back as either a starter or as someones deputy at RB? He seems to have had a very positive season on loan at Palace, anytime I watched them & he played he looked like he had a well rounded game for a 20 year old.

Midfield's an odd one as we've been connected with all shapes & sizes, what do you think of that boy from Lazio Milinkovic-Savic? I'd seen his name pop up a few times in connection with United. I've seen a him on the Serie A highlights & I think he looks quite well rounded & promising should we actually be interested. Not to mention he looks like Mourinho's wet dream & blueprint for a CM ie he's a big physical lad, but he seems good with his feet & quite agile for his size from what I've seen.

We need a RW this summer even if we have the ideal summer & get a top quality RB as well, at this juncture I am not against Willian, Mahrez or whoever as long as they can competently play RW. Also don't mind the look of that Brazilian Malcom from Bordeaux that United, Arsenal & Spurs were all connected with in January, looks like a real live wire on the ball.
 
With both Allardyce & Moyes leaving both Everton & West Ham, I wonder what the odds would be of the pair of them returning to their former clubs ie Moyes - Everton, Allardyce - West Ham.

Arsenal set to confirm Mikel Arteta as new manager this week

Only Metro & probably nonsense, but if Arsenal do appoint Arteta it is a massive, massive gamble. Absolutely no managerial experience at any level in charge of and important re-build of Arsenal.. :loco:
 
Yeah the Arteta thing is a huge wild card. Maybe he's learned a lot about the managerial position with Guardiola, and probably a fair amount about that quick possession based style, but Arsenal is short on talent and any winners, he's effectively going to have to rebuild that team from the ground up and try and inject some confidence into those guys.

It comes off as sentimental on the same way Ferguson choosing Moyes was sentimental.
 
Yeah the Arteta thing is a huge wild card. Maybe he's learned a lot about the managerial position with Guardiola, and probably a fair amount about that quick possession based style, but Arsenal is short on talent and any winners, he's effectively going to have to rebuild that team from the ground up and try and inject some confidence into those guys.

It comes off as sentimental on the same way Ferguson choosing Moyes was sentimental.

Yeah, Arteta does have a history with Arsenal as well so he knows the club, but how much will he have honestly picked up from Guardiola at City that he'll be able to apply to Arsenal immediately? It's a big, risk, if it pans out they'll look like Jedi's, but if it goes the way I'd expect then they're going to look like donkeys.

The squad's in serious need of some investment to not only strengthen the starting 11, but to improve the depth. I'm surprised I've not heard more about Ancelotti in connection with the job. He's got the experience in building squads & he's easily the most high profile manager available as far as I know.
 
Arteta’s got history but he isn’t a club icon (of which there is no shortage). After all these years of Wenger Out, I thought they would have a top, experienced guy lined up for this.
 
Yeah, on the positive sides he is familiar with club, he's been shadowing Guardiola for two years, and Arsenal do already have a semblance of a decent starting XI.

On the negative side, Arsenal's been atrophying for like a decade, or at least seriously for the last five years. He doesn't have any experience yet, and it's difficult to say if he has the personality that will light a fire under that lethargic squad's ass. It seems pretty risky to me. Could pay off brilliantly or could end up being Moyes v 2.0 and next summer they'll be hunting for a replacement.
 
Arteta’s got history but he isn’t a club icon (of which there is no shortage). After all these years of Wenger Out, I thought they would have a top, experienced guy lined up for this.

Yeah, on the positive sides he is familiar with club, he's been shadowing Guardiola for two years, and Arsenal do already have a semblance of a decent starting XI.

On the negative side, Arsenal's been atrophying for like a decade, or at least seriously for the last five years. He doesn't have any experience yet, and it's difficult to say if he has the personality that will light a fire under that lethargic squad's ass. It seems pretty risky to me. Could pay off brilliantly or could end up being Moyes v 2.0 and next summer they'll be hunting for a replacement.

I'd have thought the likes of Henry, who played under Guardiola, or Vieira would be much more fitting given their immortal status with the club if they want to walk down this path of taking a bit of a gamble & hiring a former player with little to no experience.

Playing under or coaching/assisting alongside a top manager is no guarantee they'll absorb any of their mentors traits either. Look how many of Sir Alex Ferguson's former players, coaches & assistants all went into management. with very little success.
 
City Hazard rumours.
 
I'd have thought the likes of Henry, who played under Guardiola, or Vieira would be much more fitting given their immortal status with the club if they want to walk down this path of taking a bit of a gamble & hiring a former player with little to no experience.

Playing under or coaching/assisting alongside a top manager is no guarantee they'll absorb any of their mentors traits either. Look how many of Sir Alex Ferguson's former players, coaches & assistants all went into management. with very little success.

Yeah those are the guys I was hinting at. Henry actually was put on the spot in his commentary job and obviously being very reluctant to comment on it said he would take the job if the call came as a responsibility to the club (I'm paraphrasing, don't remember the exact words used).
 
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I was kinda getting used to the idea of Arteta.
 
Emery is a much smarter choice, he at least has some pedigree and knows how to create a winning mentality in a squad that isn't 'the favorites' from his time at Sevilla. Him as a name is also likelier to attract decent transfers than Arteta might, I'm curious to see how Arsenal adapts.
 
The Evening Standard says that West Ham are ready to pay Pellegrini £10m a year if he joins.
 
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I was kinda getting used to the idea of Arteta.

He’d have to learn english fully of course but there would be potential there I think. 3 Europa League wins with Sevilla is impressive and he’s also had experience mixing it up with the big egos at PSG.
 
You have to feel for Arteta. He felt the job was his. Big swing for Emery was his presentation & his very detailed analysis of the current squad, with ways to improve them. Sensible, if not earth shattering choice.
 
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