No Way Home Spider-Man: No Way Home Spoiler Discussion Thread

[BatLobster]

HiTop Films pretty much sums up my overall feelings on this movie.

 

[Green Goblin]

HiTop Films pretty much sums up my overall feelings on this movie.

To be honest I think this is an absolute win. Whatever you think of MCU Spidey, No Way Home is a good movie. I think the filmmakers were aware of "hot take" videos like Hi-Top Films and all the Iron Boy Jr jokes, they even reference that meme in the film itself.

 

[PBisawsem2B]

So for a while I didn't know how I felt regarding this movie. I think now my thoughts are a little bit more clear so I'll go ahead and post this. Let's see if some of you can change my mind or if you agree with my feelings. Only seen it once so far btw.

Oh boy. This is a freakin' essay. Prepare yourselves.

What I didn't like about NWH:
- Not enough screen time for the villains -- they're in it for a while then absent from a good chunk of the film. Then they suddenly return. What were they up to? Would have been great to see a scene where they are hijacking tech or plotting a siege. Villains needed to be way more proactive. That being said, I still liked how the villain story was pulled off. I just would have written it differently. I guess the upside is that we can now expect the real Sinister Six in the future with MCU native villains.
- Lizard, Electro, and Ock were too upbeat / quippy.
- Score was very underwhelming.
- Dialogue is a bit "explain-y" and flat sometimes but it's a minor issue.
- Statue of Liberty fight should have been followed or even replaced with a Times Square fight.
- The fake out with Tobey. Unnecessary and horrible.
- Post credits scene with Venom - WTF? So 2 Venoms? Or is this a symbiote Spider-Man tease? Confusing.
- Lizard was speaking too humanly and even making jokes about his Lizard plan. WTF? Out of character.
- A bit of a nitpick, but Rhino should have been in here, or perhaps Dane's Goblin with a new look. Dane and Willem could have had a really insane and twisted relationship. Dane becomes Willem's "adopted" son and they wreak havoc together. Dane could have taken on the mantle of Hobgoblin.
- Barely any interactions with Norman and Tobey. Hm. This film probably needed to be 3 hours or even more IMO. Titanic did it and grossed tons, so why can't Spidey?
- Didn't like how Rhys or Haden Church were barely in the film.
- No MCU Daily Bugle building apparently. Just a weird studio. Meh.
- Tom doesn't want to save the villains himself -- Aunt May compels him instead.. Should've been the other way around.

What I did like:
- First act was tense. Loved. DD cameo was perfect.
- Middle part was devoid of much action but we got to delve into the emotions of the characters. Refreshing.
- Third act was super - the banter between the Spideys is glorious. Triple Spidey chemistry is perfect. Perfect. LOVED the Thanos and Venom references. Lots of Spider-Bro energy. Scene where they run out simultaneously to fight the 5 accompanied with the score was INSANE!!! - just cut short! It needed to be longer. Incorporate Tobey and Andrew's theme. Maybe they should have swung to the city instead. It would have made for a longer sequence.
- "Curing the villains" subplot. - unexpected and genius. The condo scene was gripping. Horrifying. Ominous. Loved how Spider-Man was the sixth Sinister Six member in a way. It was really really awesome.
- I adored how we saw the good side of the villains. They were endearing. I felt really bad for lost old man Norman. However, the story should have walked back on the good guy villains after a certain point. Possibly after Goblin convinces them to bring out their dark side. Didn't quite like how Ock was a good guy even after Goblin's return in the condo.
- Norman was PERECT. Great lines. LOVED LOVED the brutal and violent fights with Tom.
- I loved the way the other two Spideys show up. Also unexpected and quite interesting. So glad Ned and MJ interacted with the Spider-Men.
- Aunt May gives the responsibility talk to Peter replacing Ben. This is the moment I was waiting for. Perfect for MCU Spidey.
- MCU Spidey's arc through the three movies is perfect.
- May's death hurt me massively. Incredibly well done.
- Loved the explicit references to Gwen, Mary Jane, Electro's origin, Norman, and the events of the past Spidey movies. Didn't expect so many callbacks.
- Main theme for Tom's Spider-Man is glorious.
- Electro was mostly AWESOME even if somewhat out of character. Loved how they showed him blue in the beginning. But needed more screen time.
- "Bringing in everyone who knows Peter Parker is Spider-Man" - genius and didn't expect it to transpire / be explained like that.
- Film wraps up perfectly. It's extremely horrible how Tom is completely alone now. But I love it from a story perspective.
- Liked the Miles reference.
- Love the new "Reborn" suit. New beginning.
- Amazingly dark and ominous tone through the film. Colossal contrast with the past 2 MCU outings.

Yup. Overall, I'm not sure exactly how I feel about this one. So many missed opportunities with the story and characters, but it still works so well. I'm not sure how to rate it yet. I'm mostly positive on it.

 

[BatLobster]

To be honest I think this is an absolute win. Whatever you think of MCU Spidey, No Way Home is a good movie. I think the filmmakers were aware of "hot take" videos like Hi-Top Films and all the Iron Boy Jr jokes, they even reference that meme in the film itself.

I overall liked the film and I think it did a lot of great stuff that you'd really have to be ice cold not to smile at, but I also have to agree that it almost seems as if the film itself is agreeing with and validating all the stuff that critics of MCU Spider-Man have said all along. Which is interesting, but it definitely makes it feel like...yep, this whole iteration of the character was never a true version of Spider-Man all along, which feels a bit frustrating.

The movie was a fun ride that I enjoyed, but I mean there is real narrative sloppiness in the first act (the entire setup of the movie with the spell feels incredibly lazy) and the usual MCU visual muck going on too. It was was easily the best MCU film by a country mile but it also just makes me (like HiTop) feel frustrated that it took so long to get to this point. This movie literally feels like an admission that the MCU was preventing Spider-Man from becoming the real Spider-Man. Which is kind of damning of what came before if you ask me, or at least if you've felt the previous entries were lacking. What they tried to do with Aunt May in this film nearly fell flat for me-- her lecturing about responsibility felt so left field after 2 films of her being the care free "cool" Aunt who no-sold her adoptive son being a superhero, reacting in a way that it's hard to imagine any 'responsible' parent acting in that situation.

But I'll say, as a stand alone scene, her death was really well-handled and Holland really acted the crap out of it to sell the emotion.

Overall I think the film executed really well on what it was trying to do-- especially in its second half, though I can't help but wonder how I would've taken it if I had more built-in emotional investment in Peter and May's relationship and she wasn't played as a joke for being hot the whole time.

 

[Venom 1988]

Pretty sure the opening of the movie (when the voiceover news announcers are talking) established that NWH takes place the week following the events of FFH. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember one of them saying "last week in London".

Or if you mean the passing of time from the opening to that scene in Dr. Strange's mansion, that was kinda unclear how long that was. Sure didn't seem like months, and more like a matter of days.

The rest of the movie takes place months later. The first bit if the movie takes place immediately after FFH yea but then the rest of the movie moves on from that period.

* We see Peter and co heading to their first day of school. If FFH was during the summer, this is likely August/September (The school systems in New York usually starts in Sept).
* Then from the scene where Peter and co get their rejection letters from MIT is at the earliest November because MJ's boss at the cafe tells her to take down the Halloween decorations.
* Then finally the last 10 or so minutes is likely December as it's snowing and there's Christmas decorations up at the cafe as well as the Christmas tree at Rockefeller Center. Also this scene has to take place before the end of Hawkeye given what happens to the tree in that show.

 

[herolee10]

Pretty sure the opening of the movie (when the voiceover news announcers are talking) established that NWH takes place the week following the events of FFH. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember one of them saying "last week in London".

Or if you mean the passing of time from the opening to that scene in Dr. Strange's mansion, that was kinda unclear how long that was. Sure didn't seem like months, and more like a matter of days.

Yes, I meant the time from when Doctor Strange had first casted his spell. Judging by the remarks made by MJ's boss concerning the store's Halloween ornaments, I'm assuming that the main events of this film took place in November. According to every multiverse character, they found themselves in the MCU immediately after Strange's botched spell.

 

[samsnee]

Was Tobey and Alfred Molina on set together? I know they had dialogue but if I remember correctly, they weren’t actually on screen together. The camera switched back and forth between them.

 

[Spidey_62]

The rest of the movie takes place months later. The first bit if the movie takes place immediately after FFH yea but then the rest of the movie moves on from that period.

* We see Peter and co heading to their first day of school. If FFH was during the summer, this is likely August/September (The school systems in New York usually starts in Sept).
* Then from the scene where Peter and co get their rejection letters from MIT is at the earliest November because MJ's boss at the cafe tells her to take down the Halloween decorations.
* Then finally the last 10 or so minutes is likely December as it's snowing and there's Christmas decorations up at the cafe as well as the Christmas tree at Rockefeller Center. Also this scene has to take place before the end of Hawkeye given what happens to the tree in that show.

Don't forget the Christmas music playing in the mall when Spidey's flying through the mirror dimension! The bulk of the movie probably takes place in earlyish/mid November.

 

[Toomes' Phone]

After some thinking, this is my overall ranking of the villains, not counting the spinoffs or ITSV

1. Doctor Octopus
2. Green Goblin (Dafoe)
3. Vulture
4. Mysterio
5. Sandman
6. Electro
7. New Goblin
8. Venom
9. Lizard
10. Shockers
11. Tinkerer
12. Green Goblin (DeHaan)
13. Rhino

 

[TheVileOne]

I definitely have problems with the movie though I overall enjoyed it.

I think it does feel like a bit of a reset for Tom Holland, who puts in a great performance. This feels the most Spider-Man he's ever been if that makes any sense. I'm glad they finally moved away from the Tony Stark apprentice stuff. That said, I am a bit ambivalent that Uncle Ben appears to be non-existent here.

The writing takes a lot of logical leaps from the past multiverse characters. There are a lot of plot holes and creative license to service the other characters hopping to the multiverse. Not to mention this whole idea of "curing" them doesn't really cure them or fix things for them if they go back.

Why did Electro get summoned? He never found out Peter was Spider-Man.

Doctor Octopus found out moments before he took control of his arms himself. And he redeemed himself by destroying his machine and saving NYC. So how is giving him a new chip going to help him? He was able to do it himself in Spider-Man 2. Not to mention, the tentacles are still fused to his spine.

Doctor Octopus knows that Norman Osborn is Green Goblin and that Goblin died.

Sandman knows that Green Goblin was impaled by his own glider and said it was all over the news. That never happened. No one knew Osborn was Goblin either.

Even though it was done through Aunt May, I'm happy we got the message of "with great power comes great responsibility." Peter gives up and sacrifices everything to save the multiverse. I did appreciate that Doctor Strange did have empathy for the fact that Peter is just a 17-year-old kid and he's barely lived his life yet.

By the end of the movie, as sort of bittersweet and sad as it all was, it felt like a new beginning for Peter as well. I felt like here, his journey of BECOMING Spider-Man was finally complete. This was really end of his origin story and now we can really get Peter as Spider-Man.

So I'm curious to see where they go from here. I think the perfect thing to do next would be to introduce Black Cat. Don't give her a solo movie. Introduce Black Cat in a Spider-Man sequel. See how it goes, and then maybe give her a solo film from there. Stop trying to do all these dumb solo films without properly establishing the characters and letting us get to know them and see if we like them first.

The Venom credit scene was dumb and a total copout. Dumb and disappointing. The Venom 2 credit scene actually got me kind of excited. Dumb gag with virtually no payoff. A piece of the symbiote staying in the MCU reality made no sense.

I probably would've cut out Sandman and Lizard or Sandman and Electro. There are a few too many characters and villains here too many. They weigh the film down more than help it.

 

[Green Goblin]

I definitely have problems with the movie though I overall enjoyed it.

I think it does feel like a bit of a reset for Tom Holland, who puts in a great performance. This feels the most Spider-Man he's ever been if that makes any sense. I'm glad they finally moved away from the Tony Stark apprentice stuff. That said, I am a bit ambivalent that Uncle Ben appears to be non-existent here.

The writing takes a lot of logical leaps from the past multiverse characters. There are a lot of plot holes and creative license to service the other characters hopping to the multiverse. Not to mention this whole idea of "curing" them doesn't really cure them or fix things for them if they go back.

Why did Electro get summoned? He never found out Peter was Spider-Man.

Doctor Octopus found out moments before he took control of his arms himself. And he redeemed himself by destroying his machine and saving NYC. So how is giving him a new chip going to help him? He was able to do it himself in Spider-Man 2. Not to mention, the tentacles are still fused to his spine.

Doctor Octopus knows that Norman Osborn is Green Goblin and that Goblin died.

Sandman knows that Green Goblin was impaled by his own glider and said it was all over the news. That never happened. No one knew Osborn was Goblin either.

Even though it was done through Aunt May, I'm happy we got the message of "with great power comes great responsibility." Peter gives up and sacrifices everything to save the multiverse. I did appreciate that Doctor Strange did have empathy for the fact that Peter is just a 17-year-old kid and he's barely lived his life yet.

By the end of the movie, as sort of bittersweet and sad as it all was, it felt like a new beginning for Peter as well. I felt like here, his journey of BECOMING Spider-Man was finally complete. This was really end of his origin story and now we can really get Peter as Spider-Man.

So I'm curious to see where they go from here. I think the perfect thing to do next would be to introduce Black Cat. Don't give her a solo movie. Introduce Black Cat in a Spider-Man sequel. See how it goes, and then maybe give her a solo film from there. Stop trying to do all these dumb solo films without properly establishing the characters and letting us get to know them and see if we like them first.

The Venom credit scene was dumb and a total copout. Dumb and disappointing. The Venom 2 credit scene actually got me kind of excited. Dumb gag with virtually no payoff. A piece of the symbiote staying in the MCU reality made no sense.

I probably would've cut out Sandman and Lizard or Sandman and Electro. There are a few too many characters and villains here too many. They weigh the film down more than help it.

I agree with all of this, though I wouldn't put criticism of the post credits scene as one of the movie generally. I would also add that Eddie Brock doesn't know who Peter Parker is.... so by the movies logic how could he be brought over to the MCU?

I think I would just keep GG, Doc Ock and Electro. Three villains for three Spidey's. Have the statue of liberty fight with them and the Spider-Men rather than Electro, Sandman and Lizard.

 

[TheVileOne]

I agree with all of this, though I wouldn't put criticism of the post credits scene as one of the movie generally. I would also add that Eddie Brock doesn't know who Peter Parker is.... so by the movies logic how could he be brought over to the MCU?

I think I would just keep GG, Doc Ock and Electro. Three villains for three Spidey's. Have the statue of liberty fight with them and the Spider-Men rather than Electro, Sandman and Lizard.

The symbiote knew Peter and is bonded to Eddie? Symbiotes are matter and alien life beyond are understanding and can exist in multiple universes simultaneously? That's all I got

Yeah Sandman and Lizard were borderline dead weight here. I would've probably cut them out altogether.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

Doctor Octopus knows that Norman Osborn is Green Goblin and that Goblin died.

Sandman knows that Green Goblin was impaled by his own glider and said it was all over the news. That never happened. No one knew Osborn was Goblin either.

I think the simplest explanation for the former is that Doc Ock came to the conclusion on his own based on the fact that the Green Goblin vanished at the same time Norman Osborn died. It's the sort of thing people would naturally come to their own conclusions about, much like the situation with Spider-man and Mysterio at the beginning of this movie.


Meanwhile the news reports that Sandman mentioned could have happened anytime after Spider-man 3. Maybe the mansion was investigated and the butler spilled the beans to the police.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think the simplest explanation for the former is that Doc Ock came to the conclusion on his own based on the fact that the Green Goblin vanished at the same time Norman Osborn died. It's the sort of thing people would naturally come to their own conclusions about, much like the situation with Spider-man and Mysterio at the beginning of this movie.

That's a major leap. There was nothing in Spider-Man 2 to suggest he was aware of this or figured it out.

Meanwhile the news reports that Sandman mentioned could have happened anytime after Spider-man 3. Maybe the mansion was investigated and the butler spilled the beans to the police.

A wizard did it.

 

[PBisawsem2B]

I definitely have problems with the movie though I overall enjoyed it.

I think it does feel like a bit of a reset for Tom Holland, who puts in a great performance. This feels the most Spider-Man he's ever been if that makes any sense. I'm glad they finally moved away from the Tony Stark apprentice stuff. That said, I am a bit ambivalent that Uncle Ben appears to be non-existent here.

The writing takes a lot of logical leaps from the past multiverse characters. There are a lot of plot holes and creative license to service the other characters hopping to the multiverse. Not to mention this whole idea of "curing" them doesn't really cure them or fix things for them if they go back.

Why did Electro get summoned? He never found out Peter was Spider-Man.

Doctor Octopus found out moments before he took control of his arms himself. And he redeemed himself by destroying his machine and saving NYC. So how is giving him a new chip going to help him? He was able to do it himself in Spider-Man 2. Not to mention, the tentacles are still fused to his spine.

Doctor Octopus knows that Norman Osborn is Green Goblin and that Goblin died.

Sandman knows that Green Goblin was impaled by his own glider and said it was all over the news. That never happened. No one knew Osborn was Goblin either.

Even though it was done through Aunt May, I'm happy we got the message of "with great power comes great responsibility." Peter gives up and sacrifices everything to save the multiverse. I did appreciate that Doctor Strange did have empathy for the fact that Peter is just a 17-year-old kid and he's barely lived his life yet.

By the end of the movie, as sort of bittersweet and sad as it all was, it felt like a new beginning for Peter as well. I felt like here, his journey of BECOMING Spider-Man was finally complete. This was really end of his origin story and now we can really get Peter as Spider-Man.

So I'm curious to see where they go from here. I think the perfect thing to do next would be to introduce Black Cat. Don't give her a solo movie. Introduce Black Cat in a Spider-Man sequel. See how it goes, and then maybe give her a solo film from there. Stop trying to do all these dumb solo films without properly establishing the characters and letting us get to know them and see if we like them first.

The Venom credit scene was dumb and a total copout. Dumb and disappointing. The Venom 2 credit scene actually got me kind of excited. Dumb gag with virtually no payoff. A piece of the symbiote staying in the MCU reality made no sense.

I probably would've cut out Sandman and Lizard or Sandman and Electro. There are a few too many characters and villains here too many. They weigh the film down more than help it.

Regarding the Electro plot hole -
Electro mentioned something about absorbing data just before he got sent to the MCU. Remember that Oscorp had Peter and Harry under surveillance -- they probably figured out Peter was Spider-Man. So Electro might've absorbed this particular piece of Oscorp knowledge.

That being said, I would have preferred if Electro was pulled way after TASM2.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

That's a major leap. There was nothing in Spider-Man 2 to suggest he was aware of this or figured it out.

Does he ever express any opinion or belief about what happened to Norman Osborn or the Green Goblin one way or the other?

 

[TheVileOne]

Does he ever express any opinion or belief about what happened to Norman Osborn or the Green Goblin one way or the other?

None whatsoever that I recall.

 

[MasterBoss]

HiTop Films pretty much sums up my overall feelings on this movie.

Can't stand this guy

 

[TheVileOne]

HiTop Films pretty much sums up my overall feelings on this movie.

While I do agree with some of his points, I disagree with others. Also..no offense to him, but I find parts of this video a bit too overblown and over-edited.

Why do videos like this always have this really off-beat canned music that's not even really nice to listen to?

 

[Spider-Fan]

Doc Ock meeting modern day Tobey and being so happy to see him.

One of the best scenes in the movie

 

[titansupes]

^ Was definitely a good one ("I'm trying to do better"), but for whatever reason I think the Electro/Peter 3 scene got to me a little more.

While I do agree with some of his points, I disagree with others. Also..no offense to him, but I find parts of this video a bit too overblown and over-edited.

Why do videos like this always have this really off-beat canned music that's not even really nice to listen to?

You should see his Superman & Lois video. Love the show, but that video is so over the top and cringey in its sappiness.

 

[TheVileOne]

^ Was definitely a good one ("I'm trying to do better"), but for whatever reason I think the Electro/Peter 3 scene got to me a little more.



You should see his Superman & Lois video. Love the show, but that video is so over the top and cringey in its sappiness.

I think I have watched some of his videos in the past, and I do largely agree with his points on the Titans show.

 

[FlareKnight]

My feelings leaving the theater is that I really enjoyed it. There were moments to be sure that I was iffy about. But it did nail things pretty well when it needed to. While I initially didn't love having May give the Uncle Ben speech (since...I always presumed he already did and they didn't need to show it) it was still a really emotional scene. Her death was handled pretty well I'd say. Building up to it until she was gone and Peter had to run.

I agree that this is the most Spider-Man this version of the character has ever felt. It really was him out there. Trying to make things better, making mistakes, and taking responsibility for them. And it does a nice job of cleaning the slate. Spider-Man is back to who he's supposed to be.

And I really enjoyed the various moments with all the characters coming into this one from the other universes. Moments like Doc Ock getting to talk with Toby Spider-Man. Since time really has passed there. But also appreciated the moments they gave to Garfield's Spider-Man. Both in covering how he did get more brutal over time because he never got over that loss. But also giving him that chance. Sure saving Michelle isn't the same as saving Gwen. But at least he got that chance and a bit of counseling from his fellow Peter Parkers. Can imagine him going back in a much better mental state than before he got there.

Small appreciation to that whole apartment scene. Especially the wonderful Green Goblin performance. The maniacal laughing while Peter was hitting him was great. Hard to deal with someone that utterly crazy.

I've been waiting since Endgame for something to give me a jump again with the MCU. They've had good and decent movies since then. But nothing got me really excited for the future of this universe. But this movie definitely got me invested. And I'd enjoy seeing more from all the various Spider-Men we saw here. Which is not something I ever thought I'd say. Always believed those other versions were just done. But they've still got potential for adventures in them.

 

[Dweet]

Seeing all the villains interact and banter with each other was one of my favorite aspects of the movie. ****ing hell Molina Doc and Dafoe Osborne together! I didn't think it would be possible.

That was my favorite. I loved how they were both in denial about being dead lol.

 

[kguillou]

I knew Aunt May was a goner coming into this movie. That opening shot in trailer #2 of Peter crying and distraught...there's only one thing that could've caused that, plus Holland's comments of this being a dark film with "horrible" things happening to Peter...I put two and two together. But man, I gotta give Tomei props, she brought it with her death scene. And honestly I was a bit worried because I saw a few interviews with Tomei prior to this and she seemed completely checked out of playing this role so I was afraid she would be phoning it in.