Football (Soccer)

[Iceman]

Howe to me feels a bit like Ole in a sense where a lot of the good football comes from vibes. Newcastle with their home crowd cheering them on and you see fairly average PL players like Burn become Nesta 2.0 and Anthony Gordon looking like a Hazard regen. Tactically I think he's shown both at Newcastle but also Bournemouth that there are some holes there. If I was a Newcastle supporter I would be happy with the progress that has been made but I think I would also have some questions about Howe and if there's potentially a ceiling there.

Not saying they should sack the guy 3 games into the season or anything but losing like that to a 10-man Liverpool when you've played 11v10 for most of the game is not great. Brighton away this weekend could already prove a bit of a desperate game. Let's say Newcastle wins - it's a bounce back and everyone is happy. Let's say Brighton wins (not far fetched either) - all of a sudden Newcastle has 3 losses out of 4 games and 3 in a row.

This was an absolutely terrible result given the circumstances. At this level in my view any team should be able to get a result against 10 men at home for such a long time against any other, nevermind going from a win to a loss!!

I see modern Howe (he left the game after Bournemouth and really went in depth in looking at what he was doing wrong and right before deciding to return to football) as leagues above Ole who I barely consider a manager. But of course he doesn't have the experience at top level and also hasn't been tested there yet. He may indeed have a limited ceiling but after bringing back the fun to St James Park after all these years with a clear process/plan in place, many fans will have more loyalty and be prepared to give him a lot more wiggle room than managers at other clubs. I feel the relationship between the manager and fans during the first reign of Keegan, Robson's time and now Howe again are something beyond the average but of course at some point that good will will run out.

As far as results go though, ignoring the circumstances of this match, I wouldn't have complained too much about having 3 points after these 3 games. Very few teams are going to come away far up the table after a 4 game start where home to a resurgent Villa is the easiest match. We also haven't had too many bad results since Howe took over and he's taken us from a position where everyone expected us to be relegated to the CL in no time at all.

This was by far the worst day under his tenure and requires immediate attention to fix, but so far I'm a long way from wanting him out. If we finish in any of the Euro places, even down to ECL, I consider that building on the success of last season where we massively overachieved. As long as we finish in the top 10 (not as easy as in the past with the traditional top 6 plus Villa, Brighton and West Ham likely battling for it) I still want Howe going forward.

 

[BlackFox]

Seeing reports of Utd initiating talks for Hojberg.

This

Cucurella attempting to be signed.

Varane out for six weeks.

Shaw out for six weeks.

Maguire likely to stay and need to play at some point.

Onana going to Afcon in January.

 

[Hunter Rider]

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It's bizzaro world!

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Seeing reports of Utd initiating talks for Hojberg.

Bloody hell! when you look at the low calibre of midfielder we're looking at it's obvious Ten Hag wants nothing more than a back-up as he intends to keep on with this ridiculous Mount as a #8 experiment.

 

[Iceman]

This

Cucurella attempting to be signed.

Varane out for six weeks.

Shaw out for six weeks.

Maguire likely to stay and need to play at some point.

Onana going to Afcon in January.

Utd’s defence is going to be all over the place.

Who will be goalkeeper with Onana out? (Henderson been moved on right?)

Wondering if there is any chance of getting through this period with no minutes on the pitch for Maguire.

 

[Hunter Rider]

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Utd’s defence is going to be all over the place.

Who will be goalkeeper with Onana out? (Henderson been moved on right?)

Wondering if there is any chance of getting through this period with no minutes on the pitch for Maguire.

I think Heaton is the #2 and we're bringing in some Turkish keeper who's supposedly crap.

 

[BlackFox]

Utd’s defence is going to be all over the place.

Who will be goalkeeper with Onana out? (Henderson been moved on right?)

Wondering if there is any chance of getting through this period with no minutes on the pitch for Maguire.

Even at full strength its still not exactly rock solid, we give away so many chances I can see another hiding or two this season, especially away from home.

Gawd knows, perhaps the cleaner will have a stint between the sticks? I guess Tom Heaton, ugh, really is not great planning.

I dont see how Maguire doesnt play at some point, with Varane out for a while, Martinez will get an injury or red the way he plays and then its back to the slab. Unless we play Jonny Evans at 40, .
Mind you should be hilarious to watch him and Onana in the same side, before it becomes super frustrating to watch them together.

Not much good news around for us at the moment.

 

[BlackFox]

FA charges Van Dijk after Newcastle red card

Might miss a few games.

 

[Iceman]

I think Heaton is the #2 and we're bringing in some Turkish keeper who's supposedly crap.

I don’t even know Heaton. Doesn’t sound too optimistic lol. Need the defence sorted at least for injuries before Europe kicks in or it’s all going to go to ****. If Maguire plays after a long layoff he’s going to let in at least 2 own goals on his first match back.

 

[Iceman]

Even at full strength its still not exactly rock solid, we give away so many chances I can see another hiding or two this season, especially away from home.

Gawd knows, perhaps the cleaner will have a stint between the sticks? I guess Tom Heaton, ugh, really is not great planning.

I dont see how Maguire doesnt play at some point, with Varane out for a while, Martinez will get an injury or red the way he plays and then its back to the slab. Unless we play Jonny Evans at 40, .
Mind you should be hilarious to watch him and Onana in the same side, before it becomes super frustrating to watch them together.

Not much good news around for us at the moment.

Yeah, and also the team doesn’t have the backbone or shame, once a few start going in they give up. I would say at least that’s one thing I wouldn’t expect Mount to do even if the others do.

Bloody hell still probably the better option.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

FA charges Van Dijk after Newcastle red card

Might miss a few games.

Probably 2 overall. He's an idiot.

 

[Iceman]

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It's bizzaro world!

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Bloody hell! when you look at the low calibre of midfielder we're looking at it's obvious Ten Hag wants nothing more than a back-up as he intends to keep on with this ridiculous Mount as a #8 experiment.

If there is anything to that McTominay rumour at that price it would be the best bit of news for Utd in a while.

But then they aren't aiming much higher for other midfielders to replace him, so hold that celebration right there. Seems idiotic that Amrabat at the price he's supposed to be available isn't already a done deal.

 

[Iceman]

Probably 2 overall. He's an idiot.

I don't remember the last time a ref said "Oh you're very angry, maybe I made a mistake. Yes let me change the decision, thanks for making your opinions so aggressively clear or I might have got this wrong."

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don't remember the last time a ref said "Oh you're very angry, maybe I made a mistake. Yes let me change the decision, thanks for making your opinions so aggressively clear or I might have got this wrong."

It was such an obvious red card too.

 

[Iceman]

It was such an obvious red card too.

and Trent should have been off before that too lol.

(still all on us for losing in the way we did though)

 

[DarthSkywalker]

and Trent should have been off before that too lol.

(still all on us for losing in the way we did though)

Still annoyed about that by the way. The ref refusing an obvious yellow because someone is already booked, is always the corniest BS.

 

[Iceman]

Still annoyed about that by the way. The ref refusing an obvious yellow because someone is already booked, is always the corniest BS.

Yeah I hate that. The ref is there to enforce the rules. If they don't like the rules I don't mind if they want to change them for the better. But once the match starts, follow them otherwise we have big inconsistencies with the ref of the day playing a bigger part than they should.

Btw did you see this from a few days back?

Dean admits ignoring VAR call to protect referee in Chelsea vs Spurs

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah I hate that. The ref is there to enforce the rules. If they don't like the rules I don't mind if they want to change them for the better. But once the match starts, follow them otherwise we have big inconsistencies with the ref of the day playing a bigger part than they should.

Btw did you see this from a few days back?

Dean admits ignoring VAR call to protect referee in Chelsea vs Spurs

Yeah, saw the Mike Dean thing. His attempts to play it down were embarrassing. Dude shouldn't be allowed anywhere near VAR enforcement.

 

[B]

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It's bizzaro world!

There is no way, a club as well run as Bayern Munich, look at Scott McTominay & plan to make an offer for him.

This is a bit like that bizarre Maguire Barcelona connection a few years ago, it's seems so far removed from reality that it seems more like rival fans have fabricated the story to f with United fans.

 

[B]

This

Cucurella attempting to be signed.

Varane out for six weeks.

Shaw out for six weeks.

Maguire likely to stay and need to play at some point.

Onana going to Afcon in January.

I could have swore I read during the summer when we were still in talks for him, that Onana was retired from international football, but just saw today he's been called up for upcoming fixtures so I must have imagined reading that.

 

[BlackFox]

I could have swore I read during the summer when we were still in talks for him, that Onana was retired from international football, but just saw today he's been called up for upcoming fixtures so I must have imagined reading that.

No you probably did read it but he fell out with the regime in charge so "retired" apparently but now there's new people in charge so I guess he doesnt mind playing again for them.

 

[Iceman]

Could Cucurella be a help if a loan signing? He was sold at a massively inflated price to Chelsea of course.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I don’t even know Heaton. Doesn’t sound too optimistic lol. Need the defence sorted at least for injuries before Europe kicks in or it’s all going to go to ****. If Maguire plays after a long layoff he’s going to let in at least 2 own goals on his first match back.

We are in an absolute mess mate, Heaton is OK, not ideal but the least of our issues. The defence is in tatters, we have no idea how long Shaw and Malacia are out for and we're lining up the LB that failed miserably at Chelsea, now Varane is out 6 weeks and we don't have Todibo because Maguire is a greedy bastard, I would play pretty much anybody before letting him pull on a United shirt again,

If there is anything to that McTominay rumour at that price it would be the best bit of news for Utd in a while.

But then they aren't aiming much higher for other midfielders to replace him, so hold that celebration right there. Seems idiotic that Amrabat at the price he's supposed to be available isn't already a done deal.

That's exactly it, it's hard to care about Bayern possibly buying McTominay as the replacement is another run of the mill workhorse drudge. The thing with Amrabat is that while he's a better option than Hojberg, neither of them are great but it's obvious that Ten Hag just wants a body to put in there in certain games like he did with Fred, he's not looking for a midfield partner for Casemiro as he clearly plans to continue with the Mount as a #8 farce. It'll be interesting to see which of Ten Hag and Arteta concedes they screwed up first, but at least for Arteta when he does he's got Partey and Jorginho to partner Rice.

The defensive mess is partly bad luck and partly Maguire/Glazers fault, the midfield mess is on Ten Hag.

There is no way, a club as well run as Bayern Munich, look at Scott McTominay & plan to make an offer for him.

This is a bit like that bizarre Maguire Barcelona connection a few years ago, it's seems so far removed from reality that it seems more like rival fans have fabricated the story to f with United fans.

It seems hard to believe but apparently Tuchel wants to sign him according to quite a few of the better thought of journos. When you look at it either way mate our midfield is in a sorry state.

Casemiro - World class midfielder but looking a bit leggy, hopefully just a slow starter

Eriksen - A #10 with enough football intelligence to positionally operate as a #8 but lacking the physicality and is out of steam by the 60 minute mark

Mount - A #10/wide midfielder pretending to be a #8 so he can get back in the England team, not good enough on the ball or physical enough for a deeper role

McTominay/Hojberg - The definition bang average basic midfielders

Mainoo - Very promising 18 year old but he's only made a handful of senior appearances

 

[PepS]

I would tend to give most Chelsea players the benefit of the doubt. The ****show that has been going on there for the last 18 months I believe has made a lot of good players look like absolute dross.

 

[henzINNIT]

IMO Trent didn't get that second yellow cause the ref knew the first one was harsh. The guy was tackled off the pitch and yet he was penalised lol. But regardless, things were balanced out by Joelinton magically avoiding a booking at all. It must have stung bad losing at the last minute. Alison saved LFC many times.

I know "what was the ref thinking?" is an age-old talking point, but it seems like officials are more inconsistant than ever lately.

 

[Iceman]

IMO Trent didn't get that second yellow cause the ref knew the first one was harsh. The guy was tackled off the pitch and yet he was penalised lol. But regardless, things were balanced out by Joelinton magically avoiding a booking at all. It must have stung bad losing at the last minute. Alison saved LFC many times.

I know "what was the ref thinking?" is an age-old talking point, but it seems like officials are more inconsistant than ever lately.

Yeah, Joelinton also should have had action taken for sure. That’s just more things missed. As a Newcastle fan commentator said, it’s worrying as Joelinton’s way of playing could result in reds in Europe where there is less tolerance for physical …exuberance! Also it was funny hearing “he’ll get booked for that, oh he didn’t get booked, why didn’t he get booked?” from a Toon guy.

If the ref knew the first Trent one was harsh he didn’t have to give it lol - it would be different if it was a second substitute ref independently thinking the first ref’s decision was harsh and thereby correcting it with the second.

Losing so late at home after all that time against 10 men makes it the worst defeat and suckiest feeling by a long way since Howe came in, although there haven’t been a whole lot of bad defeats.

I’m not really a big complainer about refs - they’re part of the game. We can push for change outside of matches but once they start the team has to play to its strengths throughout regardless of what the refs do or don’t do. It’s mainly things like the Mike Dean thing where I have a big problem.

Even if certain decisions should have gone differently if following the letter of the law, you have to take the decisions as they come (yes Virgil) and it doesn’t change our performance in light of them which needs to be properly looked into.