Iron Fist Iron Fist FULL SEASON ONE Discussion Thread (NO SPOILER TAGS NECESSARY!)

[Random490]

I just finished it and I have to say no where near as bad as critics made it out to be. Way off the mark. Does it have it's problems, sure, I think it's the weakest of the four series so far. Definitely had some plot problems and way too many betrayals, just back and forth. Really should have simplified that. The first few episodes are rough and at times a little nonsensical, but it definitely picks up. I feel this has a lot of similar (and more of)problems that Luke Cage had.

Murdock103, my thought process was that there was going to be some rebel or dissident faction from K'un L'un getting involved in organized crime. Maybe they were exocommunicated from K'un L'un or wherever. Maybe they wanted to oust the current high council and take the city over and use it's power to assert more control over the world. Something like that. I think that would've made more sense than to make Gao's group some weird quasi-rogue Hand group.

I know, it was pretty clear that Gao was separate from the Hand in DD. It would have been much better for Bakuto to try and muscle Rand away from Gao's group. Really bugs me, have two different organizations got after each other would probably be more refreshing for the season than just a power struggle in the Hand. Like Harold being indebted to Gao and tries to use and manipulate Rand against the Hand for his and Gao's benefits

As for the pros, I freaking love Colleen Wing. Awesome character, I'd really want to see more cage matches. The rest of the cast was good, a few I didn't like at first (Ward) grew on me over the season. The action scenes were great, a few could have been better and unfortunately none were as memorable as DD's hallway scene.

So it's an okay start, hope Defenders and season 2 go much better. Hopefully Marvel Television sees the faults and can correct it.

 

[audierules]

Alright, I just finished the show. What can I say? Well, Iron Fist might have been better off as a Movie. 13 Episodes where not really a lot happens, and people are all over the place with their emotions. Finn Jones is the first Marvel Netflix actor I am not happy with. He was simply unconvincing as Iron Fist, one of the most formidable warriors on the planet. And it didn't help that he was written as a tantrum throwing child for most of the show.

The worst offense though, for a martial arts centric show, there's basically only one standout moment in the show. The hallway fight. And that's pretty much it. The rest is forgettable. I'd take the Daredevil vs random hitman fight from Episode 1 of Season 1 over anything in Iron Fist. The fights were that disappointing. They need to throw a mask on Finn Jones' face as fast as they can, so we can have a stuntman 24/7 in his place. And get a better fight coordinator, or a better director who knows how to film fights, or both.

I rated the show 6/10 when I was only 9 Episodes in. 4 Episodes later, I'm sticking by that score.

I agree 100% with getting Jones a mask plus a stunt double and a better fight choreographer. This show is seriously embarrassing comparing to the other Netflix marvel series. I also lol about Ward alot because he looks just like Fred Armisen.

 

[Heretic]

Okay...so I know that this show had a real problem with consistent characterization motivations etc...but is it just me or did Gao have super powers and then for no given reason just stop having them?? I seem to remember her having a "force push" type maneuver...and then...well...not only did she not use it again, but no one seemed worried that she might.

 

[Dasher10]

Okay...so I know that this show had a real problem with consistent characterization motivations etc...but is it just me or did Gao have super powers and then for no given reason just stop having them?? I seem to remember her having a "force push" type maneuver...and then...well...not only did she not use it again, but no one seemed worried that she might.

I was literally asking myself why she let herself be kidnapped. It felt like a rough draft that was filmed because Scott Buck didn't care to proofread.

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah, Gao easily knocked down both Danny and Daredevil before hand. Not just that, she implied she could be hundreds of years old.

 

[righthooksrus86]

I also wonder why Claire doesn't just call Matt Murdock and tell him what's going on with the Hand to give Danny a hand (no pun intended). I hope the whole thing about the Hand having a branch that helps underpriviledged youth and trains them to fight isnt true. That's just kind of stupid. The Hand is evil.

 

[flickchick85]

I hope the whole thing about the Hand having a branch that helps underpriviledged youth and trains them to fight isnt true. That's just kind of stupid. The Hand is evil.

Seemed pretty clear to me that was just a front for building an army. Essentially taking advantage of underprivileged youth.

 

[TheVileOne]

Matt could be busy trying to make sure his legal practice doesn't collapse because he lost his law partner and they could barely pay the bills and keep the lights on as it is.

 

[righthooksrus86]

Seemed pretty clear to me that was just a front for building an army. Essentially taking advantage of underprivileged youth.

Yea Im glad to hear that lol. I just thought there may have been a chance Bokuto might actually be good. Im on the last episode I cant wait to see what happens.

Matt could be busy trying to make sure his legal practice doesn't collapse because he lost his law partner and they could barely pay the bills and keep the lights on as it is.

Fixed for you lol. And yea you have a point.

 

[Heretic]

I was literally asking myself why she let herself be kidnapped. It felt like a rough draft that was filmed because Scott Buck didn't care to proofread.

Exactly...it seems like they wanted her to be captured (which...ultimately didn't lead to too much...) and then figured that since they didn't care if it made sense, then the audience would be too stupid to notice or care either.

It's a shame. Like...I'd love to pick on things like the terrible wire work on the show, but there's so many other MAJOR issues dealing with basic issues of storytelling and characterization that I feel bad even mentioning the small stuff. But...you know...it's freaking MARVEL...they should have this down to a science by now.

 

[Mike Murdock]

The show definitely had some pacing and story problems this season. I couldn't keep The Hand and Madame Gao loyalties straight.

Just for example, in Daredevil S1 Gao was defined as separate from The Hand. She was even part of Kingpin's Cabal which involved the Hand. Yet here, she asserts herself as The Hand and one of its leaders...but it was apparently a rogue faction? Then why was she dealing with Nobu and his cohorts?

I got it by the end. I think Nobu and Bokuto are connected. They had the whole underground cages and stuff. Officially, Nobu pretended to be with the Yakuza until it was revealed otherwise. It's possible the two sides were willing to work together in a mutually beneficial way until something presented itself.

I hated the change at first, but it narratively makes sense to drive Danny to fight The Hand and I thought, by the end, internally consistent with what was established before.

How do we even know Ward's dead?

I assume you mean Harold, not Ward? I think there's closure to Harold unless someone wants to reopen it. I think cremation is a pretty safe bet.

But weird note to go out on with Davos and Joy, made no sense.

Based on what happened at the end, I can buy Davos. Not sure I can buy Joy, although it is comics-accurate if that's what you're looking for. She had an irrational resentment towards the Iron Fist.

Anyway, my thoughts are simple. It's poorly paced. It needs more action in the front. On the other hand, I thought the themes they sought to talk about worked well, sometimes in subtle ways. That might have contributed to the slowness. I don't know how you have Danny away for 15 years and not have anyone question his identity, but that plot is what dragged everything down for me. But once that was done, I thought everything was really enjoyable.

I'll give this show a seven out of ten.

 

[That Guy]

I just finished this and while I didn't quite think it was the garbage fire some critics made it out to be I can't really call it good. There are some good moments throughout the show and I thought episodes 8-13 were decent, but I don't think the incredibly slow build up was worth it. Some stuff was just dragged out too long. It took three episodes for Danny to prove who he was legally. That was something I think could have been done in the first episode. Most of the main characters were uninteresting and portrayed by average to poor actors. This includes Finn Jones who was definitely miscast. The actor playing Ward in particular was just flat out awful. I did like Colleen and Harold though. I Understand that they did not have the budget to show some of the more fantastical elements of Iron Fist but they could have at least compensated by writing interesting characters that people could have gotten interested in.

As far as the fights go, I thought they were decent. The hallway fight in episode four was good and I thought the fights in episode 12 were really well done. Most of the better fights were in the last half of the season. Danny's abilities as a martial artist were inconsistently portrayed I thought. In one fight he easily takes down a room full of trained fighters and in another he has trouble taking down one person. I don't think any of the fights hold up to the ones in Daredevil, which considering the character they should at least be on par.

Overall I didn't hate the show but it has a ton of issues including structural problems, slow pacing, and poor acting.

 

[Dasher10]

I just finished this and while I didn't quite think it was the garbage fire some critics made it out to be I can't really call it good. There are some good moments throughout the show and I thought episodes 8-13 were decent, but I don't think the incredibly slow build up was worth it. Some stuff was just dragged out too long. It took three episodes for Danny to prove who he was legally. That was something I think could have been done in the first episode. Most of the main characters were uninteresting and portrayed by average to poor actors. This includes Finn Jones who was definitely miscast. The actor playing Ward in particular was just flat out awful. I did like Colleen and Harold though. I Understand that they did not have the budget to show some of the more fantastical elements of Iron Fist but they could have at least compensated by writing interesting characters that people could have gotten interested in.

As far as the fights go, I thought they were decent. The hallway fight in episode four was good and I thought the fights in episode 12 were really well done. Most of the better fights were in the last half of the season. Danny's abilities as a martial artist were inconsistently portrayed I thought. In one fight he easily takes down a room full of trained fighters and in another he has trouble taking down one person. I don't think any of the fights hold up to the ones in Daredevil, which considering the character they should at least be on par.

Overall I didn't hate the show but it has a ton of issues including structural problems, slow pacing, and poor acting.

Nearly everything you mentioned was Scott Buck's fault. The actors aren't bad but they were given inconsistently written characters doing bizarre things with unclear motivations. I actually liked Finn, Sacha and Jessica a lot. The problem was the writing that ensured that Bokuto was boring, Harold was understated, Joy was bland and Ward was the worst Marvel villain since Malekith for a wide variety of reasons that led to unintentional comedy.

 

[2kt09]

Overall I didn't hate the show but it has a ton of issues including structural problems, slow pacing, and poor acting.

Poor writing as well. Like a dog chasing its tail with the amount of stuff that for w/e reason needed to be repeated.

Do a drinking game whenever it's asked what the iron fist is supposed to be or mean.

I think I'd give it maybe ep 8-10 or 8-11 and possibly throw in 6 & 7 as the high points of the show. Although 12 wraps up Bokuto & Davos and 13 wraps up the Meachums, they're not really worthwhile for anything outside of the fights.

 

[Dasher10]

And it just hit me why I hate Ward so much. He gets away with everything and doesn't manage to do much as alienate people. Danny makes peace with him despite Ward hiring people to kill him, throwing him in a mental hospital and then working out a deal with the Hand. He literally stabbed their father but Joy still accepts him. Harold got stabbed but he only gets a series of lectures and pleas for forgiveness.

Plus he had no reason to be whiny. He was on a short leash but he was a billionaire. He had a drug problem but that was entirely his own fault since nobody was forcing him to start abusing painkillers.

I honestly would have liked it if when Harold hit him with a golf club, he didn't get back up since he managed to not recieve any sort of consequence at the end. Even Harold's violent outbursts were ultimately Ward's fault. And he got away with everything despite having no redeeming or likable qualities.

 

[That Guy]

Nearly everything you mentioned was Scott Buck's fault. The actors aren't bad but they were given inconsistently written characters doing bizarre things with unclear motivations. I actually liked Finn, Sacha and Jessica a lot. The problem was the writing that ensured that Bokuto was boring, Harold was understated, Joy was bland and Ward was the worst Marvel villain since Malekith for a wide variety of reasons that led to unintentional comedy.

Oh i'm sure most of the problems of this show are the fault of Scott Buck. I have forced myself to watch the last few seasons of Dexter, so I am aware that the man is TV poison. I maintain that Finn Jones is not great in the role. He can't be blamed for bad writing and poor dialogue, but he never made me feel like he was Danny Rand the same way that I thought Charlie Cox or Krysten Ritter perfectly captured their roles. Maybe with more training and a showrunner who understands the character that might change.

 

[Dasher10]

Oh i'm sure most of the problems of this show are the fault of Scott Buck. I have forced myself to watch the last few seasons of Dexter, so I am aware that the man is TV poison. I maintain that Finn Jones is not great in the role. He can't be blamed for bad writing and poor dialogue, but he never made me feel like he was Danny Rand the same way that I thought Charlie Cox or Krysten Ritter perfectly captured their roles. Maybe with more training and a showrunner who understands the character that might change.

I feel like a lot of the dumb things he did were in character since Danny isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. What did rub me the wrong way was siding with Ward after Harold died. Like Ward didn't do anything even remotely likable or justified over the course of the show and Danny picks Ward over Joy? That was just rewarding Ward's bad behavior.

 

[Matt Mortem]

I'm almost through the second episode and holy **** this show is very bad. Honestly, the Blade show on Spike was better. This is some of the sloppiest writing I've seen on a show in awhile. It's a trainwreck. I hope it gets better.

 

[TheVileOne]

I got it by the end. I think Nobu and Bokuto are connected. They had the whole underground cages and stuff. Officially, Nobu pretended to be with the Yakuza until it was revealed otherwise. It's possible the two sides were willing to work together in a mutually beneficial way until something presented itself.

I hated the change at first, but it narratively makes sense to drive Danny to fight The Hand and I thought, by the end, internally consistent with what was established before.



I assume you mean Harold, not Ward? I think there's closure to Harold unless someone wants to reopen it. I think cremation is a pretty safe bet.



Based on what happened at the end, I can buy Davos. Not sure I can buy Joy, although it is comics-accurate if that's what you're looking for. She had an irrational resentment towards the Iron Fist.

Anyway, my thoughts are simple. It's poorly paced. It needs more action in the front. On the other hand, I thought the themes they sought to talk about worked well, sometimes in subtle ways. That might have contributed to the slowness. I don't know how you have Danny away for 15 years and not have anyone question his identity, but that plot is what dragged everything down for me. But once that was done, I thought everything was really enjoyable.

I'll give this show a seven out of ten.

Yes I meant Harold, sorry.

Davos kind of turning that way I kind of get because he sees Danny as a traitor, but for Joy, no.

 

[gohei_]

Just finished it. To sum it up: it had it's fair share of nice moments but I will most likely never do a rewatch of it.

The first few episodes were the least interesting for me but it picked up after that. Same with the fight scenes; after episode 4 or so they were actually quite good, with some of them even really good.
I did not like Claire in this show, she insists on tagging along with Danny and Colleen but she keeps on complaining and being pessimistic about it all the time.

Some thoughts on the Hand: I think they made it unnecessary complicated how the Hand works here. In DD it was straight forward; you had Kingpin, the russians, Gao and Nobu, 4 different factions working together temporary for a common goal, and it did not seem at all that Nobu and Gao were part of the same group. But now Gao is part of the Hand after all?
So far the Hand has been "japanese", ninjas, japanese weapons and that stuff, but Gao and her men are clearly chinese, using chinese weapons and fighting styles. I kinda feel like the writers aren't paying attention, or there is more stuff we haven't seen yet.
And I was extremely pleased to find out that the whole "good side of the Hand" business was all a lie.

One final note, the thing I am most looking forward to seeing more of in Defenders after this? Colleen Wing for sure.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Davos kind of turning that way I kind of get because he sees Danny as a traitor, but for Joy, no.

Yeah, Joy doesn't make sense (aside from being comics accurate without the reasoning behind it). Don't get me wrong, I could see someone sick of all that went down blaming Danny, but I can't see someone defending Danny literally earlier in the episode turning against him.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You know what is the worst thing about this show? The sound design. It is horrible. Every punch is generic slapping of meat that has no impact whatsoever.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

So, I just finished it. And, probably like most everyone else here, I have to say it wasn't even close to as bad as the negative reviews had me thinking it'd be. It just wasn't the cluster**** that the wave of reviews said it'd be. I'm sure not everyone enjoyed it, and there's things that could have been better, should get fixed, and some mistakes. But, this wasn't a train wreck. I can point to actual train wrecks of comic book adaptation, that are even recent. And this a'int one of them. I think it was really good. I think if I had to rank it, I liked it more than Jessica Jones. But, Daredevil is probably still my favorite. Luke Cage is probably a step above, for me too. But, I really liked it.

I think the show lost steam by the end. Honestly, the final episode wasn't really neccessary. I think the final episode actually hurt it, too. I think if you told the storytellers to wrap it up in the 12th episode, they pretty much could have. Maybe give them an extra 10 or 15 minutes, and cut down on some stuff? Maybe cut out the fight with Davos, and just squeeze Harold's reveal and have him get shot by Ward? Or maybe keep Harold's fate for the beginning of next season? Having Danny and Colleen wanted by the DEA didn't really serve any purpose. Didn't feel like they were really even hunted, not the way we saw the threat of the NYPD down upon Luke. And Danny seemed to regress, dramatically, by the end in the final episode. I think ending the season in 12th episode, have Danny and Colleen at the gates of K'un-Lun, only to have it not be there like in the end of the 13th would have worked.

I liked how the showed the another side, the manipulative side, of The Hand here. I think doing so, it just saved us all from hating Colleen. Which would have sucked, because she's awesome. I liked how the relationship with Danny and Colleen was built upon, and where it's at. They didn't stretch it out or tease us, or forced them to separate when they'd made their peace afterwards. It was different enough to see a couple who seems like they're sticking it out, and have a good thing going. With Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage...we've had the sexual tension, and the couples in those ultimately cut off or hold on in someways instead of be together. I don't know how long Danny and Colleen will be together, but I like that they are, and that we ended the season with them together.

I think there's alot to build on here. Give Danny a haircut, or atleast a comb, and shave his beard. Give him a costume, too. Those could all be good changes for the second season.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Yeah, Joy doesn't make sense (aside from being comics accurate without the reasoning behind it). Don't get me wrong, I could see someone sick of all that went down blaming Danny, but I can't see someone defending Danny literally earlier in the episode turning against him.

Yeah, I agree. I think seeing the ending of the season, it probably is what also put Davos over the edge. He probably missed getting back to K'un-Lun because of Danny.

Joy...eh, didn't make sense. I think it was unnecessary to set up now. Whatever he reasons are, just kickstart it in season two. Davos too.

 

[audierules]

I'm cracking up right now because I mentioned something earlier about a certain character and what might happen to him and it actually happened