Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

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The excuses never end. Kinberg is always blameless. Regardless that this is HIS film. His Production company. His Script. His directorial debut.

But no, the film failed because of external reasons. TBH, it's the audiences' fault for thinking this was going to be epic. LMAO
I can't count on both hands how many times I saw reviewers mention "Disney" and "MCU", and "Avengers" when reviewing Dark Phoenix.

And don't get me wrong, I felt the same way when it came out. People were just ready for the X-Men films to be over that point, and it rubbed off on how some folks felt about the film. It coming out right after Endgame definitely didn't help either as people's expectations had been set too high
 
IMO Dark Phoenix was a victim of 3 things:

franchise fatigue and post-Endgame languor. I think at that point, people were just tired of these films, and tired of these characters, and tired of this conflict. And coming off of Endgame, some folks were just expecting more from the film than was ever promised. What it ended up being, was what it was made to be: a mostly self-contained character study about Phoenix/Jean, as opposed to this epic, grand conclusion [to the franchise] that many people

Dark Phoenix was a victim of 3 things:
Simon Kinberg writing, Simon kinberg directing and Simon Kinberg producing/overseeing the X-Men prequels.
 
I can't count on both hands how many times I saw reviewers mention "Disney" and "MCU", and "Avengers" when reviewing Dark Phoenix.

And don't get me wrong, I felt the same way when it came out. People were just ready for the X-Men films to be over that point, and it rubbed off on how some folks felt about the film. It coming out right after Endgame definitely didn't help either as people's expectations had been set too high
This is a take on one of the many talking points from Kinberg and his fans. That it wasn't meant to be a summer movie and had it been released in November as how it was originally planned*, it would've done better at the box office.

Congratulations, you've been played.

*Nevermind that his extensive multi-months-long reshoots were what caused the delay to begin with.
 
I do think it'll be a while before we see X-Men though. Probably not until the Fantastic Four are established, but I would not be surprised if we see a few introduced here or there in various projects before then.
 
I do think it'll be a while before we see X-Men though. Probably not until the Fantastic Four are established, but I would not be surprised if we see a few introduced here or there in various projects before then.
The main X-Men film will definitely come after the F4 film, but as you say, once they have cast any of the X-Men they can start dropping them into other films to start building up. I think if they handle the build up well, the X-Men finally joining the MCU will be the biggest event since Endgame.
 
This is a take on one of the many talking points from Kinberg and his fans. That it wasn't meant to be a summer movie and had it been released in November as how it was originally planned*, it would've done better at the box office.

Congratulations, you've been played.

*Nevermind that his extensive multi-months-long reshoots were what caused the delay to begin with.
But I'm not a Kinberg fan by any means. I just don't think the movie deserved the hate it got. I genuinely went into that theater expecting the worst X-Men movie ever made (Apocalypse is still the worst imo)/one of the worst CBMs ever made. And I was surprised to find that it wasn't anywhere near as bad as most of the critics were saying (

Regarding perfomance, IMO the only truly bad perfomance was Jennifer Lawrence as Mystique. You can tell she checked out years ago. But McAvoy, Fassbender, Hoult and surprisingly Turner, all turned in pretty strong performances.
 
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i could see Wolverine vs Hulk as unofficial first X Film. pretty sure the new Wolverine will get first appearance of a mutant in MCU
 
The main X-Men film will definitely come after the F4 film, but as you say, once they have cast any of the X-Men they can start dropping them into other films to start building up. I think if they handle the build up well, the X-Men finally joining the MCU will be the biggest event since Endgame.

It would be interesting to see who they would face because I don't see them using Magneto and the Brotherhood in the first movie. I can't see it being the New Avengers led by Sam Wilson for reasons I have stated before. I think it could end up being X-Men vs. Thunderbolts.
 
I really, really hope the first villain is this guy:
BE90FDF6-D502-4FF8-837D-6A2AF2457587.jpeg

Graydon Creed and the Friends of Humanity, so they can drive home the main theme of “defending a world that hates and fears them”. That choice is worlds different from the FOX regime.

Save Magneto, Wanda, Toad and Mastermind as the Brotherhood for the sequel.
 
But I'm not a Kinberg fan by any means. I just don't think the movie deserved the hate it got. I genuinely went into that theater expecting the worst X-Men movie ever made (Apocalypse is still the worst imo)/one of the worst CBMs ever made. And I was surprised to find that it wasn't anywhere near as bad as most of the critics were saying (

Regarding perfomance, IMO the only truly bad perfomance was Jennifer Lawrence as Mystique. You can tell she checked out years ago. But McAvoy, Fassbender, Hoult and surprisingly Turner, all turned in pretty strong performances.
Funny because I went expecting worse and somehow it exceeded my expectations. How is your one experience relevant to how others perceived the movie?
 
I'm sure they have an intricate vision board all lined up, but we won't see actual X-Men release dates (not to mention Avengers 5) until things are a little more concrete. After all, Spider-Man wasn't part of Phase 3 until, well, he was.
 
Funny because I went expecting worse and somehow it exceeded my expectations. How is your one experience relevant to how others perceived the movie?
Because I'm going by how, many critics reviewed the movie. IGN's review for example:

This Phoenix never burns as bright nor soars as high as the finale of the X-Men franchise deserved.
Dark Phoenix Review - IGN

This is how they open their review, by being disappointed in this film as a finale to the franchise. This sets the tone for the entire review, in the critic complaining, and disagreeing with some artistic choices that Kinberg made with the film, wanting it to be something else. The rest of the review is echoing the things I said earlier :funny: People being tired of this franchise, wanting it to end already.

I don't think this movie could have escaped the specter of Disney; people being more interested in what comes AFTER this film, and letting it color their viewing experience. Nobody was excited to watch this movie, and that definitely played a part in how people felt about it.
 
Let’s be honest, they only did dark Phoenix because they just wanted to get as much cash as possible. It was never about making a great movie.

still we mustn’t dawdle on the past. We should try and think positive for the future
 
How do you feel about making Rogue a Latina in the MCU? the twitter account XMenFilms made the suggestion of having Rogue Latina with the casting of Eliza Gonzalez and I am on board with it. Also what about making her lover/husband Gambit a Louisiana Creole which is mixed race? Demographics of Louisiana - Wikipedia


 
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How these you feel about making Rogue a Latina in the MCU? the twitter account XMenFilms made the suggestion of having Rogue Latina with the casting of Eliza Gonzalez and I am on board with it. Also what about making her lover/husband Gambit a Louisiana Creole which is mixed race? Demographics of Louisiana - Wikipedia



I'm all for it, and I fully expect some racebending to happen. It's the only way this franchise doesn't come off as completely tone deaf going into the 2020s.
 
How these you feel about making Rogue a Latina in the MCU? the twitter account XMenFilms made the suggestion of having Rogue Latina with the casting of Eliza Gonzalez and I am on board with it.

Maybe.

Also what about making her lover/husband Gambit a Louisiana Creole which is mixed race?

Both of those together would probably be excessive.
 
I was thinking some of us have been debating which younger X-man character should the team be seen through. I was thinking what if Feige went with the O5 and have Jean be that POV. I know the O5 is not a lot of ppl’s cup of tea but if the rumor about The Mutants heading to D+ is true then my idea could work.

So in episode 1 we start off with Scott, Hank (pre blue or grey), Angel and Iceman at the mansion in their uniforms outside after a training. Xavier along w/Moira introduces a young shy Jean Grey to the team to round them out. In the episodes after that we get Jean getting to know the others, what Xavier’s dream is and how they all came to be at the mansion. These episodes would be origin/flashbacks. In a later episode we see Scott trying to bond with Jean by asking her how her powers manifested only to be interrupted by Xavier and Jean hesitant. Next episode we get to see the team in action via the Danger Room, Jean becomes so overwhelmed that the true nature of her powers are shown. The other 3 kind of fear her, but Scott comes to her aide (starting their romance). In that episode we get Xavier and Moira discussing if they should put mental blocks in Jean’s mind or if it was a mistake bringing her to the mansion.

Magneto would be teased in a few episodes (think XEvo s1) & in the finale we get the team going up against him. Then in a S2 we get the team having quirky adventures mixed with mutant hysteria episodes building off that character development from s1. Also Forge would be introduced through Moria as her protégée help build things in the mansion. Then in the s2 finale “graduation day” the team can goes to Genosha for a vaca and four of them are kidnapped, tested on, and used to build sentinels, by Henry P. Gyrich. Which would lead to a giant sized X-Men movie featuring Storm, Wolverine, etc, cameos from other mutants and more human characters.
 
I think they (Marvel Studios) would make Henry Gyrich a more radicalized version of Thunderbolt Ross in the MCU, if that's even possible.
 
Maybe.



Both of those together would probably be excessive.
In what way? Two POC can't be in an interracial relationship together? :oldrazz: I guess my whole life is a lie then

But in all seriousness, I'd like to see more variety on this front. Interracial/mixed race relationships don't always have to include a white person, and I think it would be dope if the X-Men movies reflected this.
 
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Because I'm going by how, many critics reviewed the movie. IGN's review for example:


Dark Phoenix Review - IGN

This is how they open their review, by being disappointed in this film as a finale to the franchise. This sets the tone for the entire review, in the critic complaining, and disagreeing with some artistic choices that Kinberg made with the film, wanting it to be something else. The rest of the review is echoing the things I said earlier :funny: People being tired of this franchise, wanting it to end already.

I don't think this movie could have escaped the specter of Disney; people being more interested in what comes AFTER this film, and letting it color their viewing experience. Nobody was excited to watch this movie, and that definitely played a part in how people felt about it.

Okay let's pull some Quotes from this review that supposedly shows that Dark Phoenix failed thru "no fault of its own:"

"Dark Phoenix struggles to give Jean any true personality or identity."

"...her newfound godlike powers serve as merely a McGuffin for the villains to pursue and an excuse for the heroes to splinter apart in melodramatic fashion."

"The Phoenix force itself is left unexplored and hazily defined."

"Sophie Turner plays the three shades of Grey that Jean’s given here -- scared, sobbing, and seething..."

"The tragedy of Jean’s plight never quite carries as much weight."

"Dark Phoenix never gives Chastain’s character or any of her acolytes any dimension or personality..."

I mean if *that* is the hill you want to die on, then knock yourself out.

 
Okay let's pull some Quotes from this review that supposedly shows that Dark Phoenix failed thru "no fault of its own:"

"Dark Phoenix struggles to give Jean any true personality or identity."


"...her newfound godlike powers serve as merely a McGuffin for the villains to pursue and an excuse for the heroes to splinter apart in melodramatic fashion."

"The Phoenix force itself is left unexplored and hazily defined."

"Sophie Turner plays the three shades of Grey that Jean’s given here -- scared, sobbing, and seething..."

"The tragedy of Jean’s plight never quite carries as much weight."

"Dark Phoenix never gives Chastain’s character or any of her acolytes any dimension or personality..."

I mean if *that* is the hill you want to die on, then knock yourself out.
Well, let's go over his points:

"Dark Phoenix struggles to give Jean any true personality or identity."


But this has been an issue for cinematic Jean since the first film. They've always struggled to give her a defining personality outside of "telepathy woman"... Although this film probably highlights the problem because Jean is the main focus.. Fair point

"...her newfound godlike powers serve as merely a McGuffin for the villains to pursue and an excuse for the heroes to splinter apart in melodramatic fashion."


I mean, that's what the movie is about. Multiple groups/factions going after Jean, each wanting to use/control her powers for their own benefit. I don't see how the concept of the plot is bad on it's own.

That's like saying "The Infinity stones serve as a mcguffin quest for Thanos to kill a bunch people while the heroes chase him around the universe"

"The Phoenix force itself is left unexplored and hazily defined."


I don't think Kinberg would've been able to truly define the Phoenix as this cosmic life/death incarnate of all creation, within the grounded confines of this movie. Or rather, illustrate that fact, which seems to be what the critic asking for, since Chastain's character does explain the Phoenix force as being exactly that.

"Sophie Turner plays the three shades of Grey that Jean’s given here -- scared, sobbing, and seething..."


Not sure what other sides he was expecting to be explored in this movie besides those negative emotions-- Considering the Phoenix force manifests as an uncontrollable power that Jean, herself, does not understand.


"The tragedy of Jean’s plight never quite carries as much weight."

As opposed to what, exactly? The comics had 17 yrs to build up the Phoenix story and give Jean's downfall a significant amount of weight

But again, this movie takes place 10 years after Apocalypse, so the development of those relationships required* to make this movie actually mean something, is assumed to have already happened, and that's how the movie treats it. This is definitely a major issue with the movie, the entire thing feels rushed, and as a result, uneventful. But it's an angle/gimmick that the entire PT goes with, so Dark Phoenix is hardly unique in that aspect

Dark Phoenix never gives Chastain’s character or any of her acolytes any dimension or personality..."


I mean, yeah. Valek or Volok (forgot her name) is a one-dimensional character who only serves to advance the plot, and be an exposition machine. But somehow, Thor: The Dark World, which features one of the most boring, worst written villains in the MCU, has a much higher score than Dark Phoenix.

Dark Phoenix is not a perfect movie by any means. It's not a GREAT film but IMO, it's not outright terrible either. At worst, it's just a mediocre film about a tired concept in a tired franchise that should've ended with LOGAN. Now of course everyone is subject to their opinion but some people treat Dark Phoenix like it's Fant4stic, a movie that has no second act! That level of incompetence is just.. Not found in this film :funny:


Anyway, speaking of Gambit, I'm partial to the idea of MCU Remy being played by a trans actor. I think that's a wonderful way to bring some much-needed, meaningful trans rep to the X-Men's ranks.
 
I wouldn't mind the MCU X-Men going up against Mr. Sinister as the big bad, rather than use Magneto, Apocalypse or the Phoenix Saga again
 
Now of course everyone is subject to their opinion but some people treat Dark Phoenix like it's Fant4stic, a movie that has no second act! That level of incompetence is just.. Not found in this film :funny:
So you're telling me Kinberg is getting better?

SF8MzIP.gif


Or did you forget Kinberg also wrote that drek?
 
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