Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

[KRYPTON INC.]

Totally. And I say this as a huge fan of Wolverine. I think a strong, well written Scott only make Logan an even better character. When you make Scott the wimp, it makes Logan the hero by default. But Wolverine isn't a hero. He's a violent man who's trying to be a hero but doesn't believe he can be. I think the beauty of their friendship is that while they both clash all the time, Scott's inner strength always shines through and then ultimately helps inspire Wolverine to be a better person as well. To see that portrayed well on the big screen would be a think of beauty.

(Side note, I'm re-reading X-Men: Schism at the moment so have the Scott/Logan friendship on the brain)

 

[Marvel united]

I think in this instance though, you're both right. I think there's a way to honour the legacy of the O5 and Cyclops role in that without necessarily starting the story there. I mean, even if you look at a recent Marvel movie like Shang-Chi - So much of that movie explored his origins, his trauma, his complicated relationships - But he was still a young man by then, who had already lived and experienced a decent amount. They achieved a lot through flashbacks and contrasting the struggles of today with Shang-Chi's need to heal from old trauma.

I think there's a great movie in there, with an experienced X-Man Scott finding himself facing old trauma when he's suddenly responsible for some new, younger students. The thing about trauma is, it will come bubbling to the surface many, many years later when you don't expect it. E.g. an impressionable young Kitty Pride looking up to Scott as some kind of father figure would trigger ALL of his own abandonment issues. And seeing your own surrogate father, Xavier, now concerned with younger, newer mutants? Maybe putting them in situations you don't agree with? Having Xavier forming a new X-Men team could be just the thing shake loose some of that Scott Summers trauma.

I would LOVE to have lots of Xavier/Scott conflict. If they really nail the surrogate father/manipulation aspect of their relationship, that would be something wonderful and unique we've never seen either character embrace on screen before.

While I respect your opinion and vision of the character, I admittedly don't have a lot of interest in seeing Scott introduced as a mentor let alone a father figure. I'd rather see those presumed grey hairs of wisdom earned over the films. I understand why you would want to see that, but for me, Summers' formative years are essential to his development, like most characters.

I think a closer chronological analogy to how Marvel approached Shang-Chi would be Giant-Sized X-Men. A young adult Cyclops who has to leave his childhood behind with the original team and become the leader the new X-Men need him to be-- a coming of age.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I think a closer chronological analogy to how Marvel approached Shang-Chi would be Giant-Sized X-Men. A young adult Cyclops who has to leave his childhood behind with the original team and become the leader the new X-Men need him to be-- a coming of age.

Yeah, tbh, that's more what I meant about Cyclops finding himself in a position of responsibility over some young mutants. More that his own complicated issues with being abandoned might flare up now that he is saddled with being responsible for a new team. I didn't quite mean specifically that he finds himself in a surrogate father role... More that being responsible for others who look up to him might bring up some complicated feelings he needs to overcome. So I guess more of a transforming from a student to a mentor.

 

[psylockolussus]

Unless the Mutants suddenly become ahead of the other mcu movies in development, I think we are going to wait til 2025 or 2026 for the movie to be out. And thats a really long time.

I wish Mcu isn't going to have a Deadpool 3 and another Captain America movie. Unlike Mutants, they already have people attached to those films. A sequel for Shang-Chi and Eternals for 2024 or 2025 is also not impossible to happen, both could arrive before the Mutants. So ugh.

 

[psylockolussus]

Yeah, I know, but it still sucks.

If they're back at 3 movies at year for 2023 and 2024, it will be at least 2025 for the X-Men. Or 2026.

Still doesn't make sense to me, that they didn't squeeze in a 4th movie in 2023. They also had 5 MCU placeholder dates for 2024, but its now down to 4. So for those 2 years, we just lost the chance of seeing 2 more mcu movies.

They have plenty of movies in the works aside from the Mutants, so its really taking a toll on my patience.

 

[Silvermoth]

Reminder: it’s not an x-movie until this happens on screen

 

[fan4stic]

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Dev Patel for Nightcrawler would be my absolute DREAM.

 

[SumT]

not the Titans cast also on X-Men.
Hollywood and the world are full of actors, lets add different faces to our franchise, you know?

 

[Lip]

Unless the Mutants suddenly become ahead of the other mcu movies in development, I think we are going to wait til 2025 or 2026 for the movie to be out. And thats a really long time.

I wish Mcu isn't going to have a Deadpool 3 and another Captain America movie. Unlike Mutants, they already have people attached to those films. A sequel for Shang-Chi and Eternals for 2024 or 2025 is also not impossible to happen, both could arrive before the Mutants. So ugh.

It doesn't help that I'm not excited for most of Phase 4 projects.

I didn't care for Black Widow. Wasn't super hyped for Shang Chi. I'm curious about Eternals, but not really hyped. Don't care for Loki. Or Hawkeye. Or Moon Knight. Or Agatha Harkness.

Thought it was too soon for a 4th Thor movie.

And yeah, Deadpool too.

And so far we have no games or cartoons for the X-Men.

 

[Lip]

I am not reading any spoilers for Spider Man and Doctor Strange. I want to stay away from them. But I'm also not stupid and I see people dropping hints here and there. So...

Spoiler: Multiverse of Madness

... I'm guessing we'll see some of the FOX X-Men characters, possibly Xavier, in MoM. And it kinda sucks a little (for me at least) that the first iteractions we'll see of these characters will be the FOX version.

I think it works better for Spider Man because Holland's Peter is an already established MCU character. So it makes more sens to introduce alternative versions of this character. But alternative versions of characters yet to appear?

Meh

 

[psylockolussus]

Spoiler

I think if foX characters appear in Multiverse of Madness, I hope its a 1 time thing; and we get a clean slate for the X-Men 2025 or 2026.

Deadpool though, I could see them using the Multiverse of Madness, as they are keeping the same actor.

 

[psylockolussus]

It doesn't help that I'm not excited for most of Phase 4 projects.

I didn't care for Black Widow. Wasn't super hyped for Shang Chi. I'm curious about Eternals, but not really hyped. Don't care for Loki. Or Hawkeye. Or Moon Knight. Or Agatha Harkness.

Thought it was too soon for a 4th Thor movie.

And yeah, Deadpool too.

And so far we have no games or cartoons for the X-Men.

I think for now, Disney+ shows can easily be ignored, unless you are meticulous about keeping up with the continuity. I know people who have always seen the latest Mcu fliX that can't be bothered by WandaVision, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Loki and What If.

Unless those shows lead to a feature film like Sam Wilson, they won't bother me for taking a film slot over the Mutants.

I hope Marvel Studios is done with GOTG movies, and solo movies for Ant-Man, Spider-Man and Thor after their reXpective neXt movie; to make more room for the Mutants in the movies.

 

[Detective Conan]

It doesn't help that I'm not excited for most of Phase 4 projects.

I didn't care for Black Widow. Wasn't super hyped for Shang Chi. I'm curious about Eternals, but not really hyped. Don't care for Loki. Or Hawkeye. Or Moon Knight. Or Agatha Harkness.

Thought it was too soon for a 4th Thor movie.

And yeah, Deadpool too.

And so far we have no games or cartoons for the X-Men.

Wolverine is getting a game, but I take it you mean an X-Men team game instead of a X-Men related character like Wolverine, but the X-Men were already featured in the Marvel Alliance game. Which, despite it not being a solo game for them, is already a major step up from them being completely ignored from all modern Marvel media back when Fox had the rights.

 

[psylockolussus]

Marvel Alliance 3 is not even a X-Men game. Its another one of those crossover games that feature, the whos who of the Marvel universe. It is also a Switch eXclusive and has crappy visuals. So for me that doesn't even count.

We haven't had a proper X-Men game since 2005, in which you can play more than siX X-Men.

I look forward to the Wolverine game but I won't get my ideal X-Men fiX with that as I know I'll prefer a X-Men game over it.

 

[Lip]

I think for now, Disney+ shows can easily be ignored, unless you are meticulous about keeping up with the continuity. I know people who have always seen the latest Mcu fliX that can't be bothered by WandaVision, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Loki and What If.

Unless those shows lead to a feature film like Sam Wilson, they won't bother me for taking a film slot over the Mutants.

I hope Marvel Studios is done with GOTG movies, and solo movies for Ant-Man, Spider-Man and Thor after their reXpective neXt movie; to make more room for the Mutants in the movies.

The wait gets worse because, if you're excited to see F4, you're excited to see Sue, Reed, Johny and Ben. And you'll get in the first movie. Now if you're excited to see the X-Men, you have a big list of characters. And we're not getting sequels every 2 years anymore with this amount of franchises.

And I'm not only excited for the X-Men. I want to see New Mutants, X-Factor, X-Force... I want Rahne to be in X-Factor, and I want to see the Val Cooper one before investigations, so they'd have to establish New Mutants first. How long for us to see that? How long to see someone like Monet, for instance?

Ugh... it sucks, but...

 

[psylockolussus]

If they keep the gap between the recent sequels and their predecessors, you'd be waiting a long time just for the first splinter team.

Best hope, some of the ips are retired like Black Widow, Iron Man, Steve Rogers for good, so it opens up a bigger room for more X-Men movies, that we don't need to wait siX years for the neXt film. I also don't want New Mutants, X-Factor and X-Force to be banished to Disney+; as I want those to be theatrical films as well (with high budgeted film production).

 

[spidercide89]

It doesn't help that I'm not excited for most of Phase 4 projects.

I didn't care for Black Widow. Wasn't super hyped for Shang Chi. I'm curious about Eternals, but not really hyped. Don't care for Loki. Or Hawkeye. Or Moon Knight. Or Agatha Harkness.

Thought it was too soon for a 4th Thor movie.

And yeah, Deadpool too.

And so far we have no games or cartoons for the X-Men.

Agree 100%. I still don't see the logic in having a Black Widow solo movie after her entire character arc had already been completed. And making it a prequel was just idiotic. I understand Marvel wanting to be inclusive but there are plenty of other female superheroes they own that are still waiting to be introduced...

I like the idea of Shang-Chi and Eternals more because at least those heroes are expanding the universe...

And like psylockolussus said, the D+ shows are still kinda their own thing at this point. The MCU really needs to start branching out and using some of the other thousands of characters they own to keep things fresh. Going back to the same well with Loki/Cap/Thor/Widow over and over is getting stale...

And please retire Deadpool. I get that he's a fanboy favorite but man did I hate what Ryan Reynolds brought to the character...

 

[SonNetwork]

Let me know if I'm rehashing an old section of this conversation, but here are my predictions for the MCU X Men series.

1 - X men (Primary) as a Disney+ series
2 - X Men (Secondary) major event Movie events (Movies are Crossovers, Space, Deaths, etc.)

3 - There are 2 different ways this could go from here:
A - Original Class X Men as Students
B - Original Class X Men as Teachers
(I prefer TAS Xmen as Teachers)

4 - Race Bending is going to happen.

5 - The real world will impact the production

-----------------

1 - Disney+ needs content, it's a obvious move that the longest running soap opera in comics will be a streaming series. With all of the nuances of social justice, romance, genetics, technology, and super heroics - it's going to be a streaming show.

- Maybe even 3 shows - Students for Y-A crowd, Weirdos (and magic) vs Doom Patrol show, and X Force show to link with "spy thriller Marvel" & Deadpool content.

2 - I envision this will go down like Falcon and the Winter soldier series. Streaming shananagons are going to balloon into worthy events concluded in the movies.

- (personal opinion) That being said I would like the first movie to be a flashback, that sets up this new version and connects the Classic 5 team, TAS team, and the Uncanny team into ONE class.

3 - I suspect that the writers know that the classic TAS fans are all adults now (even the X Men: Evolution) kids will be old. Most normies I know don't want to watch the original team in highschool drama "again" so I'm guessing they will be adults.
- So I think we'll see (option B). Classic team as Adults.

There are just enough classic X men to make a full roster of teachers, enough to have a few to mind the kids, go on public relations missions, and undercover missions all at once.

4 - Jean should be a white redhead (they already swapped Mary Jane, taking Jean too would be "too much")
- Wolverine should be white Canadian too (but short and hairy, maybe a comedian actor)
- Cyclops should be a brown man (Dave Patel, or Wilmer Valderrama maybe).

5 - There's probably going to be more Asian and Brown actors in front. Hispanics will be more of a dominant box office force, so expect more brown people. I think making SunFire a mainstay would help (but that's not likely to happen.) Newly Hispanic characters will be race bended.

- There will probably still be a teacher shortage in the future, so expect X Men to push "BECOME a TEACHER" propaganda.

- The "Dawn of X" run will continue after Jonathan Hickman's Inferno, so expect that to be the direction the series and movies build towards.

 

[SumT]

If Marvel/Feige bring some Fox characters in MOM and one of them isnt Marsden as Cyclops.... There will be blood.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

4 - Jean should be a white redhead (they already swapped Mary Jane, taking Jean too would be "too much")
- Wolverine should be white Canadian too (but short and hairy, maybe a comedian actor)
- Cyclops should be a brown man (Dave Patel, or Wilmer Valderrama maybe).

5 - There's probably going to be more Asian and Brown actors in front. Hispanics will be more of a dominant box office force, so expect more brown people. I think making SunFire a mainstay would help (but that's not likely to happen.) Newly Hispanic characters will be race bended.

- There will probably still be a teacher shortage in the future, so expect X Men to push "BECOME a TEACHER" propaganda.

Boy there's a lot to unpack here haha. Why does Jean HAVE to be white?

Also *Dev Patel.

And why would Marvel be pushing pro-teacher propaganda (And is that a bad thing?). I'm so confused haha

 

[psylockolussus]

Well I'm pretty sure most people familiar with Jean Grey would want her to look like Jean Grey from the comiXs than someone else. There's a reason why Bruce Wayne, Bruce Banner, Peter Parker and Clark Kent have always been white in film, TV and videogames.

Its an adaptation, so people would eXpect these characters to look similar/familiar to their comiXs counterpart. That's just natural.

 

[SonNetwork]

Boy there's a lot to unpack here haha. Why does Jean HAVE to be white?

Also *Dev Patel.

And why would Marvel be pushing pro-teacher propaganda (And is that a bad thing?). I'm so confused haha

(Jean) - I think so, I think the fire-y redhead archetype would be lost for the worse if they give her the Mary Jane treatment.

(Cyclops) - the orphan with a lot of missing family, would be better served by race bending into a culture that might still have large families. Patel is just who came to mind, an fairly good actor, who is tall, brown and not signed to Marvel or DC yet.

(Teachers) - Yep, it's not a bad thing, but if they go the Y-A route for the main X men show then we can expect a lot of near saves, and wise speeches for the younger more diverse 2nd and 3rd generation X men students.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I dunno, this is an old discussion by this point, but I just don't see why Jean, more than other characters NEEDS to be white. Like if you follow that logic, that every actor has to look exactly how they've been drawn, we'd simply never see new interpretations of any characters. Screen adaptations aren't the same as the comic world, where new writers and artists are picking up the same continuity and running with it.

Film and TV doesn't have that same limitations, which is one of the greatest advantages of any screen adaptation. I mean I'm a longtime comic fan, so obviously I can understand the appeal of seeing characters look exactly how they do in your fave comics. But to me, colour of the skin is sooooo far down the list after excellent writing, great performance, personality faithful to the comics etc.

I can understand why people would want a comic character to look exactly the same in the movie but I just fundamentally don't accept the premise it somehow makes the character worse to cast an actor with slightly different physical traits?

Like can anyone list one single reason that Zendaya wasn't a good MJ based on the colour of her skin? I can't even imagine how one could begin to make that claim.

 

[Marvel united]

I dunno, this is an old discussion by this point, but I just don't see why Jean, more than other characters NEEDS to be white. Like if you follow that logic, that every actor has to look exactly how they've been drawn, we'd simply never see new interpretations of any characters. Screen adaptations aren't the same as the comic world, where new writers and artists are picking up the same continuity and running with it.

Film and TV doesn't have that same limitations, which is one of the greatest advantages of any screen adaptation. I mean I'm a longtime comic fan, so obviously I can understand the appeal of seeing characters look exactly how they do in your fave comics. But to me, colour of the skin is sooooo far down the list after excellent writing, great performance, personality faithful to the comics etc.

I can understand why people would want a comic character to look exactly the same in the movie but I just fundamentally don't accept the premise it somehow makes the character worse to cast an actor with slightly different physical traits?

Like can anyone list one single reason that Zendaya wasn't a good MJ based on the colour of her skin? I can't even imagine how one could begin to make that claim.

Tbh I'd have no problem with Jean being played by a WOC. Non-white redheads do exist, and with two prior adaptations of the character, and Wanda currently occupying a Jean-like role in the MCU, I have a feeling that it's not exactly gonna be off Feige's table.

There are a lot of actresses (of color) who would be an amazing Jean.